Bryant's not too good at lighting fires, but he is an expert at throwing people under the bus
How about those series against the Knicks?? A better defensive squad than the Celtics in an ERA of more physical play. Jordan destroyed those Knick teams in epic 6 and 7 game series. In todays game of touch fouls, he would have destroyed the Celtics in this series. Please tell me you are not saying Kobe is as good as MJ. MJ never played that bad in his prime in the finals and he played against some great teams.
This Celtic D is not light years better than some of the Spurs teams that won les and i know MJ would have torched them as well.
Jordan scored 63 in the playoffs against what is considered the best frontline ever in Bird, McHale and Parrish. Did Bryant even scored that much against the enver Nuggets, a team that plays no defense, in this year's playoffs?
And you need a leader as well. Something Kobe is not.
No Celtic would ever out a teammate on the court like Bryant ed out Gasol after the big Spainard failed to catch his 130-mph, no-look pass in the first half of Game 5. How can Lakers fans continue to defend such petulant behavior? You got me. But, hey, he must be a good guy because he can do news conferences while holding both of his kids. I have to admit, I'm a little Kobe'd out. Even politicians handle their public image less transparently -- we're almost to the point that Kobe's PR team is going to stage a fake fire in the Hollywood Hills and have Kobe "randomly" drive by the house, then run in to "save" three kids.)
He really isn't, Jordan was an Egomaniac like Kobe, but he seemed to find ways to inspire the guys more than Kobe does. Kobe's teammates seem to tolerate his bull because he is such a great player but are not really inspired by him.
That's funny. I've probably watched 80%+ of Jordan's playoff games since '86. You clearly never watched Jordan the way you underrate him by constantly comparing Kobe Bryant to him. I remember those series with Detroit as prime examples of why Jordan is an incomparable player. Jordan would get beat up, clotheslined, and thrown to the floor on almost every play, and he still said ' you' and attacked relentlessly. Michael refused to be intimidated going against the dirtiest/most physical frontline in NBA history.
i think MJ could've beat this Celtics team with the present Lakers, and i'm definently not a KOBE hater i think he is super talented. But he's not Jordan, i must also say this, i believe that Kobe could have won championships with some of the BULLS teams that Jordan had but i don't think he would have won 6 thats for sure.
amazing defense? foreal? A physical front line?
Ilgauskas? Varejo? that ridiculous haha
No doubt about it. Jordan is the best player of all time not just because of his great physical gifts, but because he was probably the fiercest, most compe ive player to ever lace em up. Basketball was life and death to him out there.
First of all I've never said Kobe was better than MJ. That's you making up lies. The only thing I've said in this thread is that MJ wouldn't have changed the result of this series and I've seen no substantive arguments from anyone here to make me think otherwise. All I see is "MJ is BETTA THAN KOBE, KOBE is a RAPIST". That's not how you win an argument.
Going 1-5 will never win you an NBA Championship. Kobe has done this before in his career and failed just as miserably as MJ did. He's scored 81 points in one ing game, scored 50pts something like 5 straight times, he's done the me against the world thing and it resulted in a #7 seed and 1st round exit. I'm sure he could have said it and attacked the Celtics defense relentlessly, which would have resulted in the Lakers getting blown out even more and Kobe risking further injury to himself. He's still playing with a torn ligament in his pinky, everytime it gets whacked on the way to the rim he risks further damaging it.
I'm waiting for someone to give me a real counter as to why MJ would make the Lakers win this series. Right now you all get an "F" in terms of your debating skills. You need to come up with some solid examples and substantive arguments other than "MJ WAS BETTA DAN KOBE!!!".
Tell me, how does MJ solve the Laker's defensive problems single-handedly? How does he make Odom not disappear for whole halves at a time? How does he make Pau not shy away from extreme contact in the paint? How does he make Vladimir Radmanovich a better perimeter defender and more able to stay in front of Pierce? How does he make Sasha not throw the ball away carelessly? How does he make the Lakers play better team defense? These are the reason why LAL lost, not because Kobe wasn't MJ.
Kobe wouldn't have had to score 81 points by himself to win the game. He needed to show some nuts and drive to the hoop instead of running down the court and jacking up wild contested 3's. MJ would not have done that. He would have driven to the hoop every time no matter how bad he got beat up and he definitely would not have turned the ball over a dozen times. You say you watched Jordan in his prime. Well I don't believe you. When I grew up there was Mike Tyson and Michael Jordan. Michael Jordan was not human. He could effect the outcome more than any other player to set foot on the court. Trade out Jordan for Kobe and there is no denying, no matter what you say, that he would increase the chances of winning this series dramatically. Sorry but that's not an opinion, it's a fact. And if you don't believe that you haven't really seen Jordan play like you claim.
Game 6, not even MJ himself could've won considering how poor the Lakers were playing and how HOT the celtics were. Game 4 on the other hand, he does not blow that lead. So it's conceivable to say that if MJ was on the Lakers there would be a game 7 tonight in Boston.
But it's irrelevant. MJ is better than Kobe, I know this, and I don't blame Kobe for not being as good as MJ because he simply isn't. And there's nothing wrong with that, he's the best shooting guard in the game right now, MJ is the best player in the history OF the game.
Here's why MJ would have won the series:
1. Jordan was a far better penetrator than Bryant. No team ever kept Jordan out of the lane. He was quicker and more athletic than Bryant, and was a stronger finisher. He was strong enough so that Pierce could never keep him in check one on one by playing physical defense... and if Rodman, Mahorn, and Laimbeer couldn't keep Jordan from finishing at the rim, don't tell me Garnett, Perkins, and Powe would.
2. Jordan was a far better defensive player than Bryant. You could stick him on Pierce, unlike Bryant. Kobe Bryant is the most overrated defender I've ever seen. He always plays the other team's worst offensive player (ie, Bowen, Rondo). First team All-Defense my ass. So anyways, Radmanovic wouldn't be guarding Pierce; someone with the strength to play physical defense while having the quickness to stay in front of Pierce would be.
3. Jordan could score on the block. You could always run a high percentage play for him on the baseline to make double teaming him difficult. An absolute go-to play that Bryant hasn't even tried to have in his arsenal since '04. What was the Lakers goto crunch-time play? Throw it to Kobe and have him shoot a wild off balance jumper?
1. Nope, Jordan is not penetrating and getting into the lane against this zone defense. The Celtics were keying 3-4 defenders on Bryant at all times. There simply wasn't any room to penetrate. Lebron James could barely get to the rim, and he is much more athletic and a stronger finisher than Jordan IMHO. You forget, MJ never had to play against zone defenses. The Bad Boy Pistons may have knocked him around a bit and been more physical, but that's not nearly as effective as a zone defense in terms of thwarting someone from penetrating.
2. Totally agree. MJ's defense was superb, equally as good as his offense. Still, him stopping Pierce a few more times per game isn't winning this series. Who's guarding KG, who's guarding Ray Allen, who's keeping Perkins/Powe/BBD off the glass, who's staying in front of Eddie House, who's keeping Rondo in check? The Celtics got plenty of production from players not named Pierce in this series.
3. Jordan would have been more effective on the block. Still, the Celtics did a great job of cutting off the passing lanes and making it difficult to make the entry pass. This doesn't change the outcome of the series IMHO. The Celtics would have swarmed Jordan and forced him to give up the ball if he was too effective in the post.
What you don't understand baseline is that the Celtics defense was used to stop Kobe at all costs and force someone else to make baskets. Nobody can score against a defense that is keying 3-4 defenders on you at all times. They basically play illegal defense 90% of the time but bank on the fact that they won't get called for it much. Great points though, and I agree with most of what you said. I just don't think it would have been enough to turn the tide.
Jordan would stay up 3 days straight on a gambling binge and stll find a way to win a bball game.
Mj's must be sore since this thread was made.
It's a testament to how rabid the Kobe haters are.
No point in arguing with SA fans who have a bias. Kobe in 5 .
Yea this thread has made me realize how pointless it is arguing with Kobe-haters.
At least someone is honest.
same thing can be said about Kobe- suckers.
Dude, the guy was only six! when Jordan won his final championship. Cut him some slack.
you dumbasses. Do you realize even realize why Kobe is hated by non-Laker fans and even Laker fans like me. It's not because of his on court play. It's because Kobe-stans like you have to go out of your way and rub it into peoples faces of how "great this and how great that" he is, how you constantly fellate him and put him on a pedestal, how you have to defend his on and off the court arrogance. He's a class A1 prick, asshole and egomaniac and those are irrefutable facts. He's got no one but himself to blame for those character flaws. You're too much of a moron to realize that you're guilty by association when you make him to be more than what he is.
Not once has a single Laker fan here said Kobe > MJ. This is how warped you Kobe haters are.
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