Pakistans CIA hit on Karzai

[whottt]

"favor unilateral action against a country that had commited no aggression against us or anyone else"

... are you talking about Iraq?

No...Iraq attacked Iran and invaded Kuwait, they also signed a cease fire agreement with us, that they were in violation of.

I'd say you just tripped over your own , but the presupposes you have one.

And I'd say you should shut up and get back to sucking Usama...it's what you do best...American.

[ChumpDumper]

And in other news...Bush beat Gore without winning the popular vote.


Wake me when you get to 2008...I'll be waiting.

I'm here.

So what?

[whottt]

Wake me up when you guys also realize that by putting our military in both Iraq and Afghanistan, we now have military.espionagesupport in countries bordering two tremendous nuclear threats, not to mention producers of terrorists...


Iraq borders Iran.
Afghanisant borders Iran and Pakistan...

Pakistan has the US Military on one side and the Indian on the other...


Iran has the US on two sides, Iraq and Pakistan...not to mention the Sudis.

You idiots still want to talk about WMD?

I want to talk about splitting alliances, conquer and divide...but you guys are obviously too dumb to think on that level.



Geez, look at a ing map sometime.


Smarter brains than Bush and congress, or anyone on this forum were behind what we did, and it's actually pretty brilliant from a strategic standpoint. I'm not saying I supported going into Iraq...but I definitely don't support pulling out now.


PS: Strategic plans announced to the World is a ty strategy...so why you idiots think the government, would, or should, be announcing their true plans in press conferences is beyond me.


But maybe you should continue with your assumption that the government is lying, only actually attempt researching information for yourself rather than beliving what you are fed constantly in the media.

[boutons_]

"Iraq attacked Iran and invaded Kuwait"

Iran and Iraq battled to a stalement. We had no dog in that hunt, but that didn't stop Reagan and friends from supporting Saddam heavily during that war and all through the 80s. There was Iraqi oil money to be pocketed by Rummy and head selling miltary stuff to Saddam.

I got the impression that the First Gulf War plus sanctions totally destroyed Iran's military threat. That would today still be the case without dubya's oil grab invasion. But it's OK with you that dubya wasted 400 US military lives and 10s of 1000s of mental/physical casualties.

dubya can break Geneva convention and the pact with Russia, but Saddam can't break a peace treaty? How did Saddam breaking a peace treaty threaten the USA, or are you reduced to trivial legalisms now that WMD, etc have all been proven to be lies?

I dissent against dubya and his bull bogus wars, therefore I suck OBL? Really, really weak . I think you must be in some kind of daze from all the slapping I deliver to you.

[whottt]

"Iraq attacked Iran and invaded Kuwait"

Iran and Iraq battled to a stalement.

Doesn't change the fact that Iraq attacked them.

We had no dog in that hunt, but that didn't stop Reagan and friends from supporting Saddam heavily during that war and all through the 80s.

If we hadn't the Russians would have...and of course we supported him against Iran...the Ayatollah's are a bunch of pricks.

There was Iraqi oil money to be pocketed by Rummy and head selling miltary stuff to Saddam.

Yeah we sold him ...that didn't mean we wanted him to use it the way he wanted to use it, or do the things he did with it.


But if we hadn't allied with him the ME would probably be totally communist right, and we'd have lost the cold war...


Seeing as how even the Russians think being communist sucks...I'd say us not being communist is a good thing.

I got the impression that the First Gulf War plus sanctions totally destroyed Iran's military threat. That would today still be the case without dubya's oil grab invasion. But it's OK with you that dubya wasted 400 US military lives and 10s of 1000s of mental/physical casualties.

Dude, the sanctions and what they were doing were utilized for Propaganda purposes by Islamacists, on top of that, they were absolutely ing the people and doing nothing to stop Saddam.


On top of that...our weapons inspectors had been kicked out for years, and the OFF program was corrupt and being used to cir vent the sanctions.


And the same countries that were cir venting the sanctions were pushing for the sanctions to be released...


So they could get the oil.


And Saddam was going to arm himself with WMD...so that he could then resume his ME ambitions...and with anyone unable to stop him due to his nuclear arsenal.



And those sanctions were going to be lifted...

France has zero oil you dip , why you'd think it'd be less about Oil for them is entirely beyond me.

dubya can break Geneva convention and the pact with Russia, but Saddam can't break a peace treaty?

Sure he can...and we can kick his ass for it.

How did Saddam breaking a peace treaty threaten the USA, or are you reduced to trivial legalisms now that WMD, etc have all been proven to be lies?

It didn't threaten the USA...it gave us an excuse to kick his ass, get on Iran's border, and increase our presence in the ME.


The threat to the USA was his resources uniting with Usama's network.




Dude...what do you think Saddam was going to do once the sanctions were lifted?

This dude had shown the willingness to invade anyone. For Oil and power.

His goals were the same as Usama's...the reformation of the Ottoman empire with himself as ruler.


In America, kids want to grow up to be Rockstars...in Islam, they grow up wanting to be the Caliphate.

I dissent against dubya and his bull bogus wars, therefore I suck OBL?

You don't dissent...you dehumanize.


And why were you disenting Lance Armstrong? He didn't vote for Bush. He's against the Iraq war.


I'll have more respect for you if you just admit you hate America...there's no need to lie, you have the right to free speech here.

Really, really weak . I think you must be in some kind of daze from all the slapping I deliver to you.

Dude...you're an anti-american shill...

You're either aware of it, and lets face it, you are, or else you're stupid...I don't think you're that stupid boutons. I mean you are stupid for your ultimate beliefs, but you aren't stupid enough to where you aren't aware of your own position IMO, like clambake is for example...I think you're very aware of your own position.


You and Nbadan aren't total morons like clambake and El Nono...when I call you guys stupid dont't confuse it as being the same label of stupidity that clambake is stuck with...


I mean after all...I know you know what landlocked means

[whottt]

Someday you liberals will realize economic sanctions are less humane than war...and less effective as well...and what the create is worse than what is created by war.


You know...the rage Hitler tapped into...that was economic rage...that's also what is fueling Rad Islam...it's a powerful motivator, and war is a better alternative to war than economic sanctions are.

Someday you'll take a look at the umemployment rates of the countries producing the most terrorists...and then you'll realize why Democracy and capitalism, IOW, the same lives you guys are privileged to have, are the best weapons against terrorism.

[ElNono]

Yeah...China and Russia would have gone for that in a heartbeat. Because they're our staunch allies.

#1. We didn't Russia, we already had a northern front from which to launch the war. Which does jack good since the Taliban had little or no control of the North, and was launched out of their Pakistani border.

Let me quote you for the answer to that:

What part of Afghanistan is a landlocked country don't you get? Stupid . How do you propose we get our military into Afghanistan without the permission of one of the countries surrounding it?

So yeah, we could have used Russian airspace.

2. I'm sure China just loves the idea of a brand spanking new US allied Democracy sitting on their border...you idiot.

I'm not saying they wouldn't want some conditions, but we sure succeeded convincing them to look the other way while we invaded Iraq. You know we had to make concessions for that too, right?

3. If anything, China is supporting the Taliban right now...why in the would they would want a US allied Democracy sitting on their ing border?

Proof? The US is China's best customer. And the Chinese already deal with Taiwan, a US allied Democracy.

You're an idiot.

No, you're an idiot.

Dude... ing Pakistan was sponsoring the Taliban you idiot.
Newsflash: So was Saudi Arabia.

We sponsored the Taliban indirectly by arming the Mujahideen through three US presidential administrations. Whats your point?
We tried to convince Pakistan to stop sponsoring the Taliban and help us fight them instead, but it didn't work. You did read the article that started this thread, didn't you?

Idiot...a good bunch of them were always in Pakistan. The Taliban came from the Pashtuns, those are Pakistanis as well as Afghanis.

The Pashtuns were the primary ethnic group on the Taliban, but that doesn't mean that all Pashtuns were part of the Taliban. As a matter of fact, the current Afghan president, Karsai, is a Pashtun himself. (He's actually from Kandahar, where the Taliban emerged).

If we weren't in bed with Pakistan...who do you think they'd be in bed with? Them..and their nuclear program, and nuclear materials, and huge ass population of Wahabi Muslims?

They would be begging to be in bed with us anyways. They already have enough to worry about with India to piss off another nuclear power.
You know we already pissed them off back in the 90's with sanctions over their nuclear capabilities, and they didn't fire any nukes, right?

You have no idea how truly ed up up Pakistan is...no idea. If so then Musharraf's motivations wouldn't be mysterious to you, and neither would Islam's...or it's byproducts.
And you also wouldn't wonder why we allied with him and should continue to staying allied with him.
And if you're real smart you'll say your prayers and hope that Musharraf doesn't get taken out...

And you do know? Who are you? Is your mom Pakistani?

You will see an American city get nuked by terrorist attack if the Radical Muslims in Pakistan take power.
You literally have no idea what they are doing to produce fanatics there...it's probably the most inhumane and apocalyptic movement ever produced in the history of mankind.

You make it sound like we should have invaded Pakistan instead of Iraq.
And if they're so ed up why they haven't done that to India? They hate them as much as they hate us. Because India would have pushed the red button and wiped them out of the map?
Well, we can do the same, 100x over. You know that, right? You don't think they know that?

You also have no idea the way women are treated there either...
Kids and Women aren't human beings in Pakistan...they are treated as subhuman.
PS: For all you guys thinking Islam is some kind of joke that could never serious threaten us, just know Pakistan was the first Islamic state of the Industrialized World.

I believe you're talking about Radical Muslims. Islam is a religion.

Someday you guys will look into it for yourselves...and once you do, if you can still chalk it up to some sort of cultural difference, or anything other than pure evil, then you're a bigger idiot than I thought, and that'll be pretty amazing, because I think both of you guys are huge idiots.

In all honesty, I actually think you are the re here. Just my opinion, which is just as good as yours. Those countries ARE ed up. That's why the innuendo of dubya saying he's going to transform them into peaceful democracies is delusional. Another reason to get the out of there.

[whottt]

The best thing that can happen to resolve this war and this situation, is for a leader to emerge who has true convicition about undoing the holing of the ME by Europe.


But we don't have that...


But all we have a choice of two dumbasses, one who is going to cowtow to all the American religious zealots...or the other who is going to cut and run and make a ty situation worse.

I hate to break it to you guys...but it's not Bush and the Republicans that are at war...it's the United States of America...and because you are citizens of that country, you are at war, for better or for worse.



Now why you guys advocate ambivalence about Iraq is beyond me...but it's an incredibly stupid notion....and it's damn sure not any kind of liberalism.


There will be a genocide when we pull out, and the two regional powers in that region, Iran and Saudi Arabia, will battle it out for control of that country, and they will have their pick of suitors to ally with in our absence...not to mention our economy will be completely ed...and we'll be a step closer to hole status.

And no one is going to consider the USA as a good guy once that happens...we'll just be quitters, without the heart to finish what we started, or the balls to stand up to a brutal, opressive and backwards ideology...

[clambake]

So you favor unilateral action against a country that had commited no aggression against us or anyone else? One who just so happens to be a nuclear power.

to stand with taliban would have been an act of agreession, moron.

They also have a military built up to match up with India...you know, India, and it's nuclear arsenal, and it's 1+ billion population of Muslim hating Hindus.

we wouldn't have given a .

On top of that, Pakistan was the Taliban's #1 ally and befefactor in the entire world...and by allying with Musharraf we broke that alliance.

yeah, now they just harbour our enemy. are you sure they didn't stamp "This guys a dumbass" on your file?

[ElNono]

There will be a genocide when we pull out, and the two regional powers in that region, Iran and Saudi Arabia, will battle it out for control of that country, and they will have their pick of suitors to ally with in our absence...not to mention our economy will be completely ed...and we'll be a step closer to hole status.

There's more than Saudi Arabia and Iran. There's also Syria, Egypt and Pakistan. So you're basically fighting 7 countries, in 2 wars at the same time.
Perhaps we should have thought of the genocides BEFORE invading Iraq.
And the economy will be ed regardless, thanks to the Trillions in debt we spent on this war.

And no one is going to consider the USA as a good guy once that happens...we'll just be quitters, without the heart to finish what we started, or the balls to stand up to a brutal, opressive and backwards ideology...

It's Vietnam all over again... We'll just make a couple of Rambo movies making it look like we won, and nobody will remember...

[whottt]

Let me quote you for the answer to that:



So yeah, we could have used Russian airspace.

I even gave you a chance...


You are such a stupid ...look at a map sometime.


Seriously...look at a map.

I'm not saying they wouldn't want some conditions, but we sure succeeded convincing them to look the other way while we invaded Iraq. You know we had to make concessions for that too, right?

Idiot....they didn't look away, they opposed it all the ing way. They just didn't go to war over it...


It's not on their border...fool.

Proof? The US is China's best customer. And the Chinese already deal with Taiwan, a US allied Democracy.

Gotdamn you are stupid dude, we are about 5 steps away from being at war with China over Taiwan.

No, you're an idiot.

No you are...

You truly are...

You don't know and try to lie, backpedal and rationalize your way out of it...and you fool no one except other idiots.

Mr. Devil's advocate.


You don't know who has the biggest military in the world.
You don't know what Afghanistan's borders are.
You don't know where Pakistan is located...


You're just a stupid ...and you deserve that label for forming an opinion out of ignorance.






You planning on looking up which country actually has the biggest military in the world? Or do you think your obvious backpedaling is doing the job?

It didn't...I know you don't know what you're talking about. And so do you.

We sponsored the Taliban indirectly by arming the Mujahideen through three US presidential administrations. Whats your point?

My point? That was then this is now...

We tried to convince Pakistan to stop sponsoring the Taliban and help us fight them instead, but it didn't work. You did read the article that started this thread, didn't you?

Um...it did work.


Do you think Mullah Omar and Usama were saying good old Mushy, he's got our backs, as we were bombing the out of them with planes launched from and flying over Pakistani airspace?

You think they just considered that a little argument between friends or something?


Musharraf's ass is completely and totally in a sling...


I guaran ingtee you he is on our side...

The Pashtuns were the primary ethnic group on the Taliban, but that doesn't mean that all Pashtuns were part of the Taliban. As a matter of fact, the current Afghan president, Karsai, is a Pashtun himself. (He's actually from Kandahar, where the Taliban emerged).

Yeah...where is Kandahar located bag? Hint: It's not on the Russian border you colossal idiot.


And no Karsai is a Pashtun, how in the do you think he won the election?

They would be begging to be in bed with us anyways. They already have enough to worry about with India to piss off another nuclear power.
You know we already pissed them off back in the 90's with sanctions over their nuclear capabilities, and they didn't fire any nukes, right?

So basically you are in favor of unilateral action against non-agressive countries...

Only you're in favor of doing it to countries with nuclear arsenals...


ing stupid.

And you do know? Who are you? Is your mom Pakistani?

I know...

You make it sound like we should have invaded Pakistan instead of Iraq.

Um...I promise you, if we invaded Pakistan, they would have used their nukes on someone somewhere before losing that war...and how many American lives would have been lost in that case bag?

Your idea isn't less war...it was more war.

And if they're so ed up why they haven't done that to India? They hate them as much as they hate us. Because India would have pushed the red button and wiped them out of the map?

They can wipe India out...just as easily.

Damn...do you know about anything except how to turn on a computer and type in total stupidity?

You obviously don't know how to google "map"...

Well, we can do the same, 100x over. You know that, right? You don't think they know that?

No idiot...Pakistan could nuke itself and extinguish all life on this planet....you're just too ing stupid to realize that.

And yes...if the right people get power in Pakistan that could easily happen.

I believe you're talking about Radical Muslims. Islam is a religion.

The economic principles, xenophobia, and lack of civil rights present in Islamic States(which Islam advocates) beget radical Islam...

Sin,

Pakistan, Saudi Arabia etc.

In all honesty, I actually think you are the re here. Just my opinion,

And as you have proven...you're opinion is a stupid one backed by little knowledge...so you go right ahead and have your opinion.

If I want to know about Russian borders...you'll be the first I call.

Mr. advcocate.

which is just as good as yours.

Really idiot?

Then how come you don't realize Russia doesn't border Afghanistan?

And that China has the biggest military in the World?

And that Pakistan isn't in the ME?


And what a Devil's advocate is?

Those countries ARE ed up. That's why the innuendo of dubya saying he's going to transform them into peaceful democracies is delusional. Another reason to get the out of there.

Yeah and so let's see...instead of driving a wedge between Pakistan and the Taliban..

You'd have had us go to war with them, and China, and Russia, not to mention Aghanistan, completely and totally as a unilateral action...


You're a stupid ...go look up a map sometime.

Then look up the size of the militaries in the world.

Then go look up the history of the Aztek empire.

Then go look up what a Devil's advocate is.

Then go find out the difference between an uninformed opinion Vs an informed one...


When you are ignorant of indisputable commonly known facts your opinion is a stupid, uninformed one...it's not even informed at the most basic level.

[whottt]

There's more than Saudi Arabia and Iran. There's also Syria, Egypt and Pakistan. So you're basically fighting 7 countries, in 2 wars at the same time.

Yet more proof of your stupidity...Saudi, Syria, Egypt and Pakistan are ideologicially opposed to Iran and it's goals...they are pitted against each others, and they like each other less than they like us.

Perhaps we should have thought of the genocides BEFORE invading Iraq.

What's happened in Iraq is nowhere near a genocide.

It's Vietnam all over again... We'll just make a couple of Rambo movies making it look like we won, and nobody will remember...

It's not Vietnam all over again...it's much more important that we win this war than it was Vietnam...

Islamic countries(rich and poor) are 10 times the , and threat a poor communist one was.

Sin,

Afghanistan

[ElNono]

I even gave you a chance...
You are such a stupid ...look at a map sometime.
Seriously...look at a map.

I did you re . Control of military airspace for Turkmenistan and Kazakhstan is almost completely controlled by Russia. I mean, you're so *well* informed and you don't even know this.

Idiot....they didn't look away, they opposed it all the ing way. They just didn't go to war over it...

They sure DID look away once the war started. I'm still looking for your 'proof' that China is helping the Taliban.

Gotdamn you are stupid dude, we are about 5 steps away from being at war with China over Taiwan.

Again, proof? Where is it? Did we send our fleet over there? Shut the up with your weak .

You don't know and try to lie, backpedal and rationalize your way out of it...and you fool no one except other idiots.

You still need to prove anything you say is true. I mean, really. You talk talk talk and it's all hollow. You got nothing to back up what you say. You're just spewing bull left and right. I can play that game too.

You don't know who has the biggest military in the world.
You don't know what Afghanistan's borders are.
You don't know where Pakistan is located...

You planning on looking up which country actually has the biggest military in the world? Or do you think your obvious backpedaling is doing the job?

It didn't...I know you don't know what you're talking about. And so do you.

Biggest doesn't mean just personnel. None of the 5 countries that have more personnel than the US have the technological prowess that the US army does. None of them spend in Military as much as the US does. As a matter of fact, the US spending on Military is 46% of the entire world spending on military. This is a fact. The US has the biggest, mightier army in the world.

I know what Afghanistans' border are. Prove that I don't.
I know where Pakistan is located. Prove that I don't.

My point? That was then this is now...

So, basically you don't have a point. Exactly.

Um...it did work.

I see it really did. That's why they're sending death squads from Pakistan to kill the US-backed president in Afghanistan. Reality is calling, are you answering?

Do you think Mullah Omar and Usama were saying good old Mushy, he's got our backs, as we were bombing the out of them with planes launched from and flying over Pakistani airspace?

That's why Usama is laughing at you from someplace in Pakistan? That really worked great!

Musharraf's ass is completely and totally in a sling...
I guaran ingtee you he is on our side...

I don't doubt that. I doubt Musharraf is in control of his ing army.

And no Karsai is a Pashtun, how in the do you think he won the election?

Babbling again. You declared all Pashtun to be Taliban. Who's backpedaling now?

So basically you are in favor of unilateral action against non-agressive countries...
Only you're in favor of doing it to countries with nuclear arsenals...

I never said I did. You're just making up again. I would have been happy enough to cut a deal with Pakistan that didn't involve giving them 4 ing billion dollars to support the Taliban.

And BTW, YOU are in favor of unilateral action against non-agressive countries... Preventive war anyone?

I know...

This is, in a nuts , the depth of your responses. Full of air. Entirely unsubstantiated opinions.
You KNOW JACK . JACK .

Um...I promise you, if we invaded Pakistan, they would have used their nukes on someone somewhere before losing that war...and how many American lives would have been lost in that case bag?
Your idea isn't less war...it was more war.

Again, claiming I said things I didn't say. I said: "You make it sound like we should have invaded Pakistan instead of Iraq."
Where did I say we should have invaded Pakistan? Do you have reading comprehension problems? That would explain a lot.

Damn...do you know about anything except how to turn on a computer and type in total stupidity?
You obviously don't know how to google "map"...

I know how to spot a complete fraud when I read it. Yes, that would be you.

No idiot...Pakistan could nuke itself and extinguish all life on this planet....you're just too ing stupid to realize that.
And yes...if the right people get power in Pakistan that could easily happen.

Oh really? With all of their 60 nuclear warheads. All life on this planet?
You need Xanax right now.

The economic principles, xenophobia, and lack of civil rights present in Islamic States(which Islam advocates) beget radical Islam...

So we should just hate every Muslim basically... The more you talk the more you look like a complete ignorant.

Really idiot?
Then how come you don't realize Russia doesn't border Afghanistan?

Quote me where I said Russia borders Afghanistan? You can't, because I didn't. Again jumping to conclusions.

And that China has the biggest military in the World?

They have the most personnel. Very different.

And that Pakistan isn't in the ME?

I did tell you that.

And what a Devil's advocate is?

Here, educate yourself, if you can actually read:
In common parlance, a devil's advocate is someone who takes a position, sometimes one he or she disagrees with, for the sake of argument.

Yeah and so let's see...instead of driving a wedge between Pakistan and the Taliban..
You'd have had us go to war with them, and China, and Russia, not to mention Aghanistan, completely and totally as a unilateral action...

More bull . Never said to go to war with anybody. Quote me, I dare you.

You're a stupid ...go look up a map sometime.
Then look up the size of the militaries in the world.
Then go look up the history of the Aztek empire.
Then go look up what a Devil's advocate is.
Then go find out the difference between an uninformed opinion Vs an informed one...
When you are ignorant of indisputable commonly known facts your opinion is a stupid, uninformed one...it's not even informed at the most basic level.

You're actually full of hot air. Hollow and empty. Arguing without backing anything up. Constantly using profanity to pass your bull as fact. Twisting what other people say to make your argument. Completely unable to concede you are even slightly wrong. I know people like you. I LOVE to argue with people like you and expose you for the FRAUD that you are.

Hey, if you don't like to read my opinions, feel free to use the 'ignore' feature on the board. But I hope you don't. If you stick around, you might be able to learn something.

[ElNono]

Yet more proof of your stupidity...Saudi, Syria, Egypt and Pakistan are ideologicially opposed to Iran and it's goals...they are pitted against each others, and they like each other less than they like us.

They don't have a problem hating Israel together and providing support for Hamas. Do you realize that if the US wins, Israel wins by proxy, don't you?

What's happened in Iraq is nowhere near a genocide.

More reading comprehension problems. I didn't say it was a genocide. i said we should have thought about the possible effects of the invasion BEFORE invading. Genocide in that area is unavoidable at this point.

It's not Vietnam all over again...it's much more important that we win this war than it was Vietnam...
Islamic countries(rich and poor) are 10 times the , and threat a poor communist one was.

They're no different than they were before we went there.

[whottt]

They don't have a problem hating Israel together and providing support for Hamas. Do you realize that if the US wins, Israel wins by proxy, don't you?

Hmmm...I used to think they hated us and Israel more than each other...I wish that were true, because if it were, we'd already be on our way out of Iraq right now.


Nah...all of them fear a loss of status and influence in the region(and so does Russia BTW)...to each other, to us. It's all the same.

More reading comprehension problems. I didn't say it was a genocide. i said we should have thought about the possible effects of the invasion BEFORE invading. Genocide in that area is unavoidable at this point.

Is that you what you tell yourself so that when we pull out you won't feel guilty about the genocide?

[whottt]

Hey, if you don't like to read my opinions, feel free to use the 'ignore' feature on the board.

I don't like reading your opinions...they are mundane, they are common, they are standard anti-war talking points that you can get from anyone with only the slightest insight into the actual situation.



It's not just you I'd have to put on ignore to get rid of them...it's 90% of the libs in this forum.

But I hope you don't. If you stick around, you might be able to learn something.

Oh I'll be here and there...

I want you to understand something though, I'm not trying to change your opinion. Does my style of argument seem designed to endear you to my POV?


You see I've argued with idiots like you...there is little or no chance of changing your opinion. You think your mundane and trite little comments are something new to this forum and are somehow clever on your part...the fact tha tyou think that would be the case when you obviously have put little or no effort into researching the facts before forming them...proves that you are just the opposite of what you think you are...Mr. Advocate.


No...in fact my style of arguing can only serve to re-inforce your illinformed opinion to the degree that you will defend your POV even when you know it's wrong to the imagined personal stake involved...and me? I'm happy to help you paint yourself into a corner of stupidity...it's not like you weren't stupid to begin with...you know? I mean the way I look at it is it's deserved...


I mean...who says libs are the only ones that get to dehumanize?



Yes, I know it seems wrong to be both right and abusive/overly vulgar, and that's why I do it. I want it to be hard on you to accept my POV and acknoledge the factual nature of it. I want it to be a bitter pill should you ever elect to swallow it, and if you chose not too, well, you won't be any stupider than you were when we began and I at least did my part to introduce some facts into your dull and unenlightened political mind.

You know, I've decided that there definitely is certain altruism to what I do. Plus, it provides me with an opportunity to vent.

I mean your posts are stupid, excuse me, your advocacy...and I find a way to turn them into positive for all of us.


I call it a win win...wouldn't you?




No, I'm not giving you any links, I don't care to prove to you. I know your opinion was an ill formed one with little or no research put into forming it...


Plus, it's patently obvious that you have extremely oversimplified view of an extremely complex and fluid situation...


I don't doubt that you're confused about a lot of things....I don't doubt that you don't understand a great many things. I mean...that is the essence of being stupid after all.

[ElNono]

Hmmm...I used to think they hated us and Israel more than each other...I wish that were true, because if it were, we'd already be on our way out of Iraq right now.

Nah...all of them fear a loss of status and influence in the region(and so does Russia BTW)...to each other, to us. It's all the same.

We'll be out of there sooner or later, it's unavoidable at this point. Not only we shouldn't have invaded Iraq in the first place, even when we did, we had absolutely no post-invasion strategy. The neo-cons thought that once we cut Saddam's head everybody else would fall inline, thanks us for the effort and let us control their country. When it didn't happen, they didn't have a plan B. Speaks volumes about the complete disconnect with reality.

Is that you what you tell yourself so that when we pull out you won't feel guilty about the genocide?

I won't feel guilty one bit when we pull out because there were multiple genocides before we got there, and there probably will be more genocide after we leave too. It's a way of life over there. They're ing wackos, and that is that.

[ElNono]

I don't like reading your opinions...they are mundane, they are common, they are standard anti-war talking points that you can get from anyone with only the slightest insight into the actual situation.
It's not just you I'd have to put on ignore to get rid of them...it's 90% of the libs in this forum.

It's obvious you don't like reading my opinions. That's what delusional people do. Ignore reality and replace it with a false belief that's fanciful and derived from deception.
Now, you'll be hearing a lot of the anti-war arguments. To the tune of 68% of the American people (LINK).
Luckily for us, we hear less and less of the radical neo- s like you as months go by.

Oh I'll be here and there...

I want you to understand something though, I'm not trying to change your opinion. Does my style of argument seem designed to endear you to my POV?
You see I've argued with idiots like you...there is little or no chance of changing your opinion. You think your mundane and trite little comments are something new to this forum and are somehow clever on your part...the fact tha tyou think that would be the case when you obviously have put little or no effort into researching the facts before forming them...proves that you are just the opposite of what you think you are...Mr. Advocate.

Of course you can't change my opinion with your at ude. In order to do so, you would need to earn my respect, and you can't do that trying to pass opinion for fact. You can't back up 90% of what you say, and what's even more idiotic, is that you lie in order to derail the conversation into more of your opinions, because you couldn't back up the previous ones. To the point that your opinions contradict the reality in front of you. That's so weak, we need to add 'whottt' to the definition of Fraud in the dictionary.
As opposed to you, who likes to demean everybody that disagrees with you, I never claimed to be any more clever than anybody else in here. Taking an opposing stance, even when I don't sympathize with the proposed view, is textbook usage of devil's advocate. I see other people here understood, even if they didn't agree, of what I did. But you're just trying to impose your deluded view, using profanity and demeaning people for effect. Unfortunately for you, I can actually see through the smoke and mirrors.

No...in fact my style of arguing can only serve to re-inforce your illinformed opinion to the degree that you will defend your POV even when you know it's wrong to the imagined personal stake involved...and me? I'm happy to help you paint yourself into a corner of stupidity...it's not like you weren't stupid to begin with...you know? I mean the way I look at it is it's deserved...

Funny you say that because when I made a mistake on this thread, I actually recognized I did. If there was somebody completely unwilling or unable to retract a statement, that would be you. And I have no 'personal stakes' involved in any conversation. I've both argued and agreed with many, many people in these threads, from all political backgrounds. And for the most part, it has been in a respectful manner, even when we didn't agree. My life doesn't revolve around 'winning' an internet conversation.

Yes, I know it seems wrong to be both right and abusive/overly vulgar, and that's why I do it. I want it to be hard on you to accept my POV and acknoledge the factual nature of it. I want it to be a bitter pill should you ever elect to swallow it, and if you chose not too, well, you won't be any stupider than you were when we began and I at least did my part to introduce some facts into your dull and unenlightened political mind.

Your arguments are full of fallacies. When pressed to actually back up these 'facts', you come empty over and over again, and they show for what they are, opinions, or flat out lies. How weak is that you have resort to making up stuff I didn't say in order to make a point? You have zero credibility, plus you come out as arrogant and uneducated (is there any worst kind?), because not only reality doesn't agree with you, you also use abundant profanity to express yourself too.

You know, I've decided that there definitely is certain altruism to what I do. Plus, it provides me with an opportunity to vent.
I mean your posts are stupid, excuse me, your advocacy...and I find a way to turn them into positive for all of us.
I call it a win win...wouldn't you?

I think if there's a positive on this thread, is that with every single iteration, and with every post you make, you keep showing everyone else on this board how arrogant and false you are. You are basically doing the work of showing yourself for the fraud you are. That's exactly what I want, and the reason I would love to keep discussing with you.
So definitely a win win. , I don't even need to do much, just let you open your big mouth and point to the fallacies. So please go ahead and keep going. You're doing a great job of sinking yourself.

No, I'm not giving you any links, I don't care to prove to you. I know your opinion was an ill formed one with little or no research put into forming it...

And your evidence of this is?. Oh wait, thats right. You can't back up anything you say. When I posed the same question to you, your answer was truly revealing: 'I know...'. Keep going sparky, you're doing a terrific job.

Plus, it's patently obvious that you have extremely oversimplified view of an extremely complex and fluid situation...

Let me see what's this thread about. We made our bed with Pakistan, who plots and sends a death-squad to kill the US-backed Afghan president in order to destabilize that country, and we can't do about it, because we ed up.
Not that complicated or fluid. I'm gonna ask again. Did you actually read the article that started this thread? Or you simply decided to ignore reality altogether?

I don't doubt that you're confused about a lot of things....I don't doubt that you don't understand a great many things. I mean...that is the essence of being stupid after all.

If I didn't have the conviction to argue my point of view, I would have stopped answering a long time ago. The fact I'm still here calling you out for your bull , goes to show I'm not confused in the least. A non-stupid person would have figured that one out...