1992 Dream team
2008 Redeem team
Jordan could fight over the Bad Boys and Karl Malone, but he couldn't hang with KG's "NFL" screens?
Like Jordan didn't have to carry his teams. That's rich; Kobe Bryant is the most overrated defensive player in years. Good defensive players play good offensive players; not people who can't hit a jump shot or put the ball on the floor.
LMAO @ saying LeBron could finish like Jordan. No one finishes at the rim like Jordan, and only someone who never watched him play would argue otherwise.
You have to admit the man does make sense.Jordan could fight over the Bad Boys and Karl Malone, but he couldn't hang with KG's "NFL" screens?
Like Jordan didn't have to carry his teams. That's rich; Kobe Bryant is the most overrated defensive player in years. Good defensive players play good offensive players; not people who can't hit a jump shot or put the ball on the floor.
LMAO @ saying LeBron could finish like Jordan. No one finishes at the rim like Jordan, and only someone who never watched him play would argue otherwise.
baseline bum has apparently never heard of Scottie Pippen, Ron Harper, or Dennis Rodman. All of whom were assigned the task of guarding the opposing team's best players so Jordan could conserve his energy on offense.
Kobe is not the defender Jordan was, but he's no slouch either. He just can't be called upon to do everything at the age of 30. Neither was Jordan though. Stop rewriting history with your revisionist bull .First of all, I am going to clear this up: young Michael Jordan (1985-1993) was one of the greatest defensive guards in history. He in on the short list of greatest defensive guards, along with Walt Frazier, Sidney Moncrief, K.C. Jones, and Joe Dumars. Jordan's only weakness was being posted up. Magic Johnson exploited this in games 1 and 2 of the 1991 Finals. After putting 3 fouls on Jordan in the first half of game 2, Phil Jackson opted to move Pippen over to guard Magic and put Jordan on James Worthy. Fortunately for Jordan and Jackson, Worthy was playing on a sprained ankle, which eliminated his dominance (he had 3 inches on Jordan, and he was the guy who dropped 42 points on Dennis Rodman in Game 7 of the 1988 finals).
Young Jordan was an exceptional ball defender and he was the very best player of his era at roaming the passing lanes.
There, it's out. He was a very good defender. I don't have any problems with his 1988 defensive player of the year award and his 6 first-team all defense awards up that point.
However, after that, he was a very overrated defender. He got old and lost a step and it showed. It happens to everybody, but Jordan's fans couldn't accept it. Let me give examples.
In 1995 and 96, Clyde Drexler and Anfernee Hardaway continued giving Jordan problems when they posted up on him. That is undertandable as they were bigger than Jordan. However, Jordan's lost a step on his quickness and in 1996, Pooh Richardson lit up Jordan...Pooh Richardson. Damon Stoudamire had his way with Jordan that year (Stoudamire's rookie season). While Stoudamire was very quick, Phil Jackson's answer to him spoke volumes about Jordan: Phil put Scottie Pippen on Stoudamire. Jordan was so slow that a 6'7" 225 lb FORWARD was Jackson's answer to a guard. Phil began opting to put Ron Harper on the other team's better offensive guard. Jordan fanatics claim this was "resting" Jordan for offense. No, this is called "rationalizing." Young Jordan guarded the other team's best guard AND lit up his opponents for 32+ PPG.
Old Jordan simply could not guard the best guards any more (remember when he got caught in the switch with Allen Iverson the next year and how bad Iverson made him look?) .
What was truly sad was that Jordan continued making first team all-defense, but Ron Harper did not. Jordan wasn't even the best defensive guard on his own team any more. He didn't deserve those accolades.
So you're basically admitting that Jordan was an elite defender at age 30, and didn't start falling off until about age 32. Thank you for proving my point.
You mean this point?
Please stop. This is too easy."Michael Jordan can actually play defense. You don't have to hide him on the Rajon Rondos, Bruce Bowens, and Doug Christies of the league that Phil Jackson has had to put Kobe on for years."
i dont think he was really talking about his finishing ability. he was talking about finding a way to get to the hoop. and honestly, when Jordan puts his head down and drives, I think pretty much anyone would be less afraid of him than when Lebron puts his head down and drives, because lebron is bigger, stronger, and faster than jordan. he was saying more that if Lebron can't bulldoze his way to the hoop, then Jordan probably wouldnt fare any better. granted, Jordan was more skilled, so he could find other ways to get to the hoop.
and he did bring up a good point, that until Jordan learned to play better team ball, he was unable to beat the Pistons. the reason he could take over at any time, was because early in the games, he would get his teammates involved, which would make the opposing defenders have to respect their shot more, so late in games, when they were still in a rhythm, Jordan could have an easier time getting a shot off. and if they still decided to collapse on Jordan, then he could dish it out, as evidenced by GW shots in the Finals by guys like Paxson and Kerr.
again, I love Jordan. my favorite player ever. greatest player ever. but many people forget in his early years, he played a lot like Kobe did, not knowing when and when not to get his teammates involved. but when he figured that out, he was absolutely unstoppable. again, i think the main thing that sets kobe and jordan apart, are not their skillset. their skills are extremely comparable and very close. but Kobe does not have the leader's mentality that Jordan had, which is what separates the two.
I don't get why people use this excuse for Kobe, but not for Lebron. Only Lebron has to do A LOT more on offense for his team. But when he wants to, he has proven he can shut anyone down, including Kobe which he did twice this year in two very close 4th quarters, while Kobe had absolutely no answer for Lebron. And IMO at his best, Lebron is a far better defender than Kobe, because he plays more of a Bruce Bowen "shut-down" type of defense, forcing the ball either out of his opponents hand or into a bad shot. Kobe just hacks and goes for steals and turnovers. If Lebron gets some quality help, he will start making all-defense teams as well.
James Worthy = Rajon Rondo? ok
Man. The way people talk about Jordan these days. Jordan is better than Kobe...but you guys act like he's Jesus Christ. That Boston team will still beat the Lakers even if he replaced Kobe. Boston will still be triple teaming his ass...and Lamar and Pau will still be pussies. Even jordan cant beat the 08 Champs.
Do you ever post anything not fellating Kobe? You must be Stu Lantz or some relation.
well at this point lebomb was right, its really not even close.
Do you ever post anything not blasting Kobe? You must be mono or some relation.
Not in the NBA forum lately, with all the ridiculous Kobe threads.
Kobe fans are like George W. Bush supporters. Neither can do any wrong, and their failures are all attributable to those that surround them.
Jordan>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Kobe
Except this WASN'T a Kobe thread and 99% of the Kobe threads are about people BASHING Kobe like you. Find me one thread on this forum where the OP is "openly fellating" Kobe like you say.
so true.
What's funny is that I don't even hate Kobe, I just hate Kobe supporters. They're as ing annoying as it gets.
No . Kobe is an amazing player. I hate how the media and the Kobe fans hype him up like he's the greatest player of the last 10 years though. Spurs fans will admit when Duncan or Ginobili s up, Mav fans with Nowitzki, Rocket fans with McGrady, but Laker fan can never come to admit it when Kobe blows a series. Laker fans earned all the they get when they beat their chests and yelled about their depth all year and then turn on them and blame them for Bryant's failures when Kobe gets badly outplayed by Pierce in the Finals.
What's funny is that I don't even hate Kobe, I just hate Kobe supporters. They're as ing annoying as it gets.
Kobe is super talented, super compe ive and IMHO the best overall player right now BUT he still hasn't figured out when to take over and when to let his teammates help him. That's one aspect of the game where Jordan was a master. Jordan passed out to Kerr and Paxson for game winning shots and still had moments like his shot over Russell. Jordan's no god but no one has been close since.
And I don't get how some Laker fans can be so enthusiastic about next season with all the talent they have and then at the same time say that the talent they had wasn't good enough to win in the Finals. Yes I realize they lost Bynum but they essentially upgraded that position with Pau. I don't know if Bynum was healthy that they even get past the Spurs.
And lastly when did Paul F'n Pierce suddenly become this unstopable force? Kobe should have destroyed that dude; if for no other reason than to shut him up during this offseason.
Basketball is not that simple. It's all about matchups. The team we had last year was incredibly efficient on offense but mediocre to poor in most defensive categories (compared with other playoff teams). This worked well against teams with mediocre defenses like DEN and UTA where we could just outscore them and win, but poorly against SAS and BOS who could hold LAL to 10-15 pts lower than their average. We were fortunate SAS had ran out of gas and Manu was injured, I'm not sure we take out a fully healthy and charged SAS team without Bynum.
But as you know one player can change the dynamics of a team dramatically, especially if that player is at the C position where he can impact the game the most on both ends of the floor. Think how good would the Spurs defense be without their anchor Tim Duncan? Without that last line of defense nothing else really works. Take Garnett off the Celtics and they probably aren't near the defensive team they were last season. Bynum coming back will also change the rotations dramatically. Radmanovich to the bench, Gasol to PF, Odom to SF.....these are big, big changes. I'm excited just to see how it will all turn out (don't tell me you wouldn't if you had 3 7fters on the floor).
I can't believe you guys are still arguing this point.
PG Magic Johnson/John Stockton
SG Michael Jordan/Clyde Drexler
SF Larry Bird/Scottie pippen/Chris Mullin
PF Karl Malone/Charles Barkley/(ahem)Christian Laettner
C David Robinson/Patrick Ewing
I don't know how that simple roster list doesn't answer the question!?
he actually is for 48 minutes
92 wins but its a LOT closer than many people are giving it credit for. If you subtract Boozer and JKidd from this team and replace them with Duncan/Brand and Baron Davis then I think it gets even closer.
i dont think guys like brand/bosh/howard can defend drob/ewing....maybe duncan...but this will give them alot trouble to who is going to help duncan downlow to defend against malone or barkley
I completely agree with this, and im a diehard Jordan fan.
I disagree with this. A lot of the reason Lamar and Pau played like pussies is because Kobe is a terrible leader/motivator. Jordan would get them motivated, even if it means calling them out a bunch and punching them in practices. And even if they dont win, they dont get humiliated the way they did, and the DEFINITLEY do not blow that 20 point lead in game 4. it would have been a hard fought series down to the wire.
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