Let me give you some FREE advice on your next purchase.

[CuckingFunt]

Oh gawd that is scary. But can you imagine the sheer terror of those poor guys when she whips out her ?! Damn!

I'd never whip it out without a request.


I do have manners, you know.

[BacktoBasics]

from what i understand about the car business, you can pay a fee to a private ins ution that can give you the average dealer cost on any make/model you want.

from here, you fax/email every dealership in the state until you find someone that is willing to give you the price you want (which may not be the exact dealer cost, but you now have an idea of the gross profit being included in the deal)

someone will sell a car at their cost just to move inventory, and probably to have upgrade potential down the line.

oh and DON'T LEASE! (unless it's a copier )

If there is in fact a company that can access information like you're decribing it'll be based on non dealer discounted figures. No way anyone gets that actual dealer invoice. Most reasonably sized to large dealers don't even allow that figure to show up anywhere on a invoice, MSRP or simple dealer breakdown sheet.

All dealerships or most carry a dummy invoice thats less the specific dealers discount so they have a larger cost to show the banks.

I'd bank hard money on any kind of "cost" or "invoice" someone gets is nothing more than the dealer sheet all these places stuff in a filing cabinet for finance reasons or to show a nosey know it all customer.

I wouldn't rely on it for .

Some very large dealers get addition discounts for all kinds of reasons. Those are very very very private.

No one sells anything at cost. Price comparison with drive out figures is your best bet. most employees can't even access the real invoice.

[Lackluster]

If there is in fact a company that can access information like you're decribing it'll be based on non dealer discounted figures. No way anyone gets that actual dealer invoice. Most reasonably sized to large dealers don't even allow that figure to show up anywhere on a invoice, MSRP or simple dealer breakdown sheet.

All dealerships or most carry a dummy invoice thats less the specific dealers discount so they have a larger cost to show the banks.

I'd bank hard money on any kind of "cost" or "invoice" someone gets is nothing more than the dealer sheet all these places stuff in a filing cabinet for finance reasons or to show a nosey know it all customer.

I wouldn't rely on it for .

Some very large dealers get addition discounts for all kinds of reasons. Those are very very very private.

No one sells anything at cost. Price comparison with drive out figures is your best bet. most employees can't even access the real invoice.

consumer reports will provide you with dealer cost and any dealer rebates for a small fee.

my old man's been buying cars like that for years.

also, the dealer will move cars at their cost because the real money is made down the line in terms of service and warranty work. between administrative fees, commission, freight, and other costs associated with the actual sale of a car, there is little to be made on the actual transaction.

[BacktoBasics]

consumer reports will provide you with dealer cost and any dealer rebates for a small fee.

my old man's been buying cars like that for years.

also, the dealer will move cars at their cost because the real money is made down the line in terms of service and warranty work. between administrative fees, commission, freight, and other costs associated with the actual sale of a car, there is little to be made on the actual transaction.

What you just said is a prime example of what I'm trying to teach people to avoid.

The "cost" you're seeing is not the true dealer cost. Its invoice before the discounts...its the same dealer cost the banks sees when they agree to the loan. Its not the actual cost. I don't know how many times I have to say this. MOST DEALERSHIPS HAVE 2 COUNT THEM 2 INVOICES WITH DEALER COST. The real one which no one sees except the accountant and the shredder and the one they keep on file for everyone else including the bank.

Here is the big WHY. and not the only why either.

One dealership might get a bigger volume discount than another but they shouldn't be punished on the finance end of things because of that. So they get the dummy invoice with no discounts and it evens up the cost across the board. This is so fundamental to sales its not even funny.

If one dealer got an additional 2k discount do you realized that in the end that discount could cost them thousands of deals because the banks would want huge downpayments to cover the advance on a fair market deal. Therefore you go off of the non discounted invoice.

This is exactly why you shop dealerships not some invoice.

between administrative fees, commission, freight, and other costs associated with the actual sale of a car

you got that right and that is the exact type of I'm telling you to avoid. No dealership unless its some type of buyback will ever sell a vehicle at cost or near cost.

I can provide you with a dealer cost of 20k before the 3,500 in dealer discounts we get. I can tell you its invoice because it is.

I can tell you "hey look pal this is cost see the bottom line of 20k. Then do exactly what you mentioned above and jack up the price with a bunch of fees above and beyond regular Tax le and license and not only did I make 3,500 on the deal but I nailed for another 2k in freight, dealer prep and so forth.

You are talking about doing exactly what I'm telling you not to do. I'm telling you point blank thats a trick to you over.

Feel free to keep doing it your way. You put a load of good food on peoples tables.

[BacktoBasics]

it I'm going to write it out for you.

Dealer 1 (average size dealer)

Truck cost 20k
-2k volume discount

cost 18k

Fair market value

23k

Thats a 115% advance based on the 20k invoice.

If you base the advance off the real invoice of 18k its a little over a 125% advance.

Pretty big advance. Some banks only advance 115%. So with the non discounted invoice you can get the deal bought at 0 down.

With real invoice you have to turn around and pop your customer for 2k down. Might and likely will squash a deal.

--------------------------------------

Dealer 2(big ing dealer)

Same truck invoice of 20k

-4k volume discount becuase they're a huge dealership.

now you have a cost of 16k with a fair market value of the same 23k

HOLY thats over 140% advance. The banks are going to require huge money down unless this dealership wants to start selling real cheap and sell themselves short.

With the same dummy 20k invoice that dealer could work a deal down say 3k and still make a killing on you. You think you just paid invoice and saved a ton compared to the next guy. Then they go in and charge you say a 3500.00 freight, dealer prep, fuel adjustment surcharge so on and so on and so on and put the cherry on top.

you just paid 500 more than the guy selling you the same thing at 3k over the 20k invoice you bought from consumer reports or the invoice you demanded a salesman show you.

See the math?

This is why you shop drive out prices. Not an invoice. Shop the compe ion not some print add.

[BacktoBasics]

This is also my main point about cash buying. No bank to deal with no advance to worry about. All they have to do is make you love the vehicle. Most people don't shop hard they just go buy something and want to hear they got a good deal.

[Lackluster]

thanks for your response man! good stuff.

consumer reports bottom line pricing seems to take most everything into consideration as far as invoice pricing not being the bottom line though.

it mentions that the invoice is easily obtained, but that there are other factors at play. it provides insight on:

-hidden sales incentives from the manufacturer
-holdbacks
-rebates from dealer-invoice price
-customer rebate and incentive amounts

i also find consumer reports to be a tad more credible than most 'print ads', or they probably wouldn't exist. are you saying that most any inside track on car deals is beyond any and all scope of something like consumer reports?

[BacktoBasics]

I think you can get good info from Consumer Reports.

What it sounds like is that Consumer Reports is trying to expose some of the extracurricular charges surrounding "invoice" shopping. I don't doubt that they can lend some inside info into a roundabout dealer cost on a product line I just know thats its going to be an awefully broad figure thats based on a product line across the board as a whole not a dealer by dealer breakdown.

No way CR gets pricing for say a Red McCombs and then compares their real invoice to Champion Automotive and then to this dealer and that dealer across the country.

Thats really where you have to take the info you get from CR with a grain of salt....good info it just doesn't go the extra mile. If they did in fact do a dealer by dealer breakdown I couldn't even begin to imagine the fallout with all the confidentiality agreements when a manufacturer like Ford determines prices for one dealer buying 10k vehicles and another dealer buying 2k vehicles.

This is where looking for those extra charges becomes so valuable. You then determine what you think is fair and what isn't by shopping not the "sale" price but the "driveout" price from dealer to dealer.

One dealers 17,900 is not the same 17,900 at another once you get to the final drive out figure regardless of invoice.

I absolutely love people that come in and think they're smart and ask me for invoice. I'll just pop inside and grab the non dealer discounted invoice and say...

Ok man here it is but don't expect us to just give it away. We might be able to work something out at 400 or 500 over cost, how does that sound. We gotta make something pal.

Meanwhile we got 3,500 in dealer discounts no shown so we did pretty well and if I decide to pop you for freight or dealer prep I might add an extra 1,500 do the bottom line.

[BacktoBasics]

The inner workings of this type of retail sales is absurd. You can work at a dealership for half a decade and still not get it. More times than not a dealership will go out of its way to keep all the "real" info away from the salespeople.

This way you don't have to worry about a good salesperson growing a concious about being somewhat misleading or unethical. A salesperson who believes he's giving a customer the deal of a lifetime is always a successful one. Not everyone has the ability to seem believable so managements job is to create belief in their sales staff that transition to the customers.

If you believe something you will pitch it with sincerity and heart. People buy from people they trust and believe.

[BacktoBasic's Wife]

O.K. Mr. Know it All, time to get home. I got dinner waiting, and I nee jou to wash Felipe, because me and Celia are going to Bingo at 8.

[IronMexican]

What Mexicans do bingo night? we just drink tequila and play poker.

[BacktoBasic's Wife]

Well I guess ju aren't mary to Mr. No it all then, are ju? Es my one big ni out, and he let me dribe the Cheby, cause he no I can no drive that pinche Corvette.

[Brutalis]

No. Way.

[BacktoBasic's Wife]

Buenes sno ches peeple. I go now take curlurs out my head an ge ready, for bingos. I gat to fine my luky liters, candle an speshal bontanicas. I weel beet those white beeshes.

[BacktoBasics]

Bump.

[marini martini]

So did you quit yer job yet???

[stretch]

you guys are getting ed paying all this money for cars

i download mine off limewire

[BacktoBasics]

So did you quit yer job yet???

No. Maybe next year. Maybe late this year. I plan on full-time life coaching.

[marini martini]

No. Maybe next year. Maybe late this year. I plan on full-time life coaching.

Do you have a web site??? I got some serious BS going down with family members, where murder ain't an option.

[Fillmoe]

so what youre saying is that i shouldnt pay cash to the s on craigslist?

[BacktoBasics]

Do you have a web site??? I got some serious BS going down with family members, where murder ain't an option.

I'm always here for you. Just PM me.

[phxspurfan]

pay with a credit card- get the rewards, then pay your bill in full with cash when you get it

That's BS because I just paid 2K for my MacBook on my AmEx and I didn't get any rewards poitns at all; I think b/c I paid it off before they charged me interest.

Basically I think the only give you rewards points if you allow them to make money off your purchase (charge you interest) and the rewards points are a total scam. I have almost 25,000 points (that's $25,000 in spending) and I can * almost * get an 8GB iPod Nano. What a crock.

[phxspurfan]

Sorry, back on topic: I am realizing how much I got screwed over on my last purchase. I got a 06 TSX for 23k (used) and thought I got an ok deal for a nice car. Then I came in and they killed me with the Low-Jack, Gap Coverage and extended warranty. Out the door price ended up being around 28 with TT&L and fees. that's 5k over what I thought I was paying.

Definitely a big mistake was going by the four square and working by monthly payment. Ugh.

[Richard Cranium]

No. Maybe next year. Maybe late this year. I plan on full-time life coaching.

I hope you plan on having a second real job because I wouldn't pay squat for your advice.

[BacktoBasics]

I hope you plan on having a second real job because I wouldn't pay squat for your advice.

Feel free to go back and actually quote something you would consider to be poor advice. Maybe you can't tell the difference between actual advice and being facetious. Or maybe you just wanted to take a jab. Either way I think you statement would be a lot more productive if you went back and quoted me, then offered up some thoughts of your own to show us all where my advice doesn't live up.