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I guess I remembered wins.
First meeting: Dec. 14, 1989 (at Houston)
Final score: San Antonio 104, Houston 100
Regular-season meetings: 42
Robinson won 30, Olajuwon won 12
Postseason meetings: 6
Olajuwon won 4, Robinson won 2
I simply said Robinson was underrated.Can you guys really not admit Dream was better than Robinson? then you guys wanna rip Laker fans? jesus.
Hakeem was better than Robinson because of those two peak years.
However, Robinson was at least in Hakeem's group, the negative image of him not being able to carry his team is all misleading and due mostly to his subpar supporting cast.
I guess I remembered wins.
First meeting: Dec. 14, 1989 (at Houston)
Final score: San Antonio 104, Houston 100
Regular-season meetings: 42
Robinson won 30, Olajuwon won 12
Postseason meetings: 6
Olajuwon won 4, Robinson won 2
Not to worry. As soon as he's eligible, he's a 1st ballot hall-of-famer.
No question.
wow. If you're going by head to head numbers, then based on the 2005 PHX series Amare>Duncan.
genius.
It's simple as this-Hakeem usually outplayed Robinson and the rest of the Spurs team outplayed the Rockets in their reg season matchups. But, out of those wins the Rockets had, which are the ones that mattered the most?Olajuwon and the Rockets went through two great teams with two great centers and beat them on their way to a ring that year.
Last edited by Many PackYao; 09-10-2008 at 12:54 PM.
Amare/Duncan still had similar numbers in that series and in reg season battles.
But Olajuwon vs Robinson in '95 had a bigger disparity in PPG compared to reg season.
And if you saw that series, he clearly outperformed Robinson.
Robinson: 23.8 PPG, 11.3 RPG Olajuwon: 35.3 PPG, 12.5 RPG
You guys sound like Kobe lovers trying to defend Kobe over Jordan(Jordan was clearly better) Yeah, Robinson was good, but Hakeem was just better. So what? Robinson was great too.
..and if the spurs never got Duncan then the Spurs wouldn't have any either.
Two more points over their 42 matchups is not out performed.
He did in the one lone playoff series, but we already went through why that happened.
And this is precisely the problem. Saying Kobe is better than Jordan is like saying Alonzo Mourning is better than Hakeem. Saying Robinson was as good as Hakeem is like saying Magic was as good as Jordan. You have an actual argument about it even though popular media and average NBA fans clearly is biased towards one side.
LOL! Kobe on Jordan’s level? How? Based on him choking in two consecutive finals appearance? Based on his professional approach in refusing to play with the Hornets? Jordan got how many scoring les? Kobe’s got how many? Jordan led the Bulls to how many les? Kobe led his team to how may les? Jordan shot his team out of how many les? Kobe shot his team out of how many les?No No No!!! Its worse way than that. Kobe is on Jordans level. Every player that Jordan has played with has said so, but Hakeem is light years away from Robinson. Robinson is not even a top 5 center, and Hakeem is right there with Kareem. You could easily make a case for Hakeem being the best. Am I the only one that remember that Robison's career was fading into ultimate humilation before Duncan arrived??? Im surprised this thread even went 4 pages. Then you have this no it all idiot that is so delusional right now that he is trying to say the original article was Robinson vs Shaq, but I'll be damned that I didnt see Hakeem compared to Robinson in the same article
And Robinson was fading into ultimate humiliation? How? By winning the scoring le? Rebounding le? Blocked shot le? MVP? All-D teams? All-NBA 1st teams over Shaq and Hakeem in their primes? What have you been smoking?
I am even surprised by using the word “remember” in the paragraph. Judging from the crap you spewed so far, you couldn’t have watched basketball in the 90’s at all.
So tell me, how is Bird’s defense compared to Duncan? There is no point for you to argue in the thread anymore after you made a case that Bird and Duncan’s defense was comparable, but then you top it off with a gem like Kobe and Jordan are comparable, while Robinson and Hakeem were not.
Webber? Where does he came from?Robinson is right there in the category of Garnett, Webber, and Dirk. Im not knocking those three guys because I think all of them are HOF players, but dont even ing think about robbing the Houston fans of bragging rights to the most complete big man in history. Hakeem was top shelf, and only a spurs fan would pull something else out of their small town asses
Did Garnett lead his teams to year after year of 50+ wins with a crappy supporting cast? Oh no, he missed playoffs when he was not paired up with another all-star. Was Dirk anywhere close to one of the greatest defenders in league history?
BTW, Dirk’s “choke job” was one of the most overblown thing. He played great vs. the Spurs and other playoff series. He did terribly vs. the Golden States because the whole defense was designed to exploit his weakness, and none of his teammates remotely stepped up in that series. But then people who know little about the game ate that up.
No No No!!! Its worse way than that. Kobe is on Jordans level. Every player that Jordan has played with has said so, but Hakeem is light years away from Robinson. Robinson is not even a top 5 center, and Hakeem is right there with Kareem. You could easily make a case for Hakeem being the best. Am I the only one that remember that Robison's career was fading into ultimate humilation before Duncan arrived??? Im surprised this thread even went 4 pages. Then you have this no it all idiot that is so delusional right now that he is trying to say the original article was Robinson vs Shaq, but I'll be damned that I didnt see Hakeem compared to Robinson in the same article
Robinson is right there in the category of Garnett, Webber, and Dirk. Im not knocking those three guys because I think all of them are HOF players, but dont even ing think about robbing the Houston fans of bragging rights to the most complete big man in history. Hakeem was top shelf, and only a spurs fan would pull something else out of their small town asses
My top 5 goes as is
1. Kareem
2. Wilt
3a. Hakeem
3b. Shaq
5. Russel
Well can anyone say what skill sets Robinson possessed that were better than Olajuwon's?When Jordan and even Shaq say Olajuwon was the best center of their eras, how can you dispute that?
Robinson was a better outside shooter (especially on the wing), ran the floor better (probably the best big ever) and could cover more ground faster than even the great Hakeem to block a shot. Again, I put Hakeem by a hair over Robinson but they were both great period.
How can he be the better shooter on the wing when the wing was Olajuwon's sweet spot to do his fadeaway?Robinson wasn't known to have a signature shot or sweet spot on the floor like Olajuwon did. Remember all those "Dream shakes" he did on Robinson.
Robinson is not in the same sentence as Hakeem, Magic or Jordan? How do you figure? Robinson’s career accomplishments compares similarly to Hakeem, and as you pointed out, so did his stats. The only thing that separates the two is that Hakeem was fortunate to have a front office that complemented his team with a perfect supporting cast and a coach that utilizes it and created a brand of offense that has since been employed by every great team (Lakers in the early 00’s, and the Spurs in the last 10 years).
How was Magic not on Jordan’s level? 3 Finals MVP, 3 MVPs, All-star games, All-star game MVPs, championships, great leadership. It’s sad to see a self-professed die hard Magic fan know so little about his/her hero that s/he got so greatly influenced by the media. Jordan was about as great as they come, but there is no question that players like Magic, Russell, Wilt, and Jabbar are at least on the same level.
Speaking on sounding stupid, tell me more about Duncan’s defense.
There's no question he was on Olajuwon's level, but in the pecking order of all-time great centers Dream is still ahead of Robinson.
Since we're going by if's........like I said, IF SAMPSON NEVER GOT HURT AND LUCAS AND OTHERS NEVER FELL INTO DRUGS......Hakeem never even questions a trade, because he's already winning rings...which pretty much null and voids your post.
Can't argue with that, and I actually tend to agree. I just believe Robinson would have been viewed as one of the greatest of all time if he was actually surrounded by a team that magnifies his strengths.
Please go back to the early 90's I believe. Hakeem demanded to be traded. He got into a huge fight with management because the team sucked and management accused him of faking injury (I think it was his eye-socket or something like that).
Hakeem had great range for a center, and he did score a lot on fade away jumpers, but most of those were 15 feet in, and Hakeem is much more feared for his moves in the low post (including the fadeaway).
Robinson on the other hand, was deadly from 18 feet in with his face up jumpshot. Problem is that Robinson never developed the deadly lowpost moves of Hakeem to compliment his outside shooting. However, nobody did it better than Hakeem in the post, so that's a moot point.
Yup,sounds about right.
if ranked by skill set + physical tools only
1.Olajuwon
2.Duncan-if counted as center (greatest PF of all time though)
3.Ewing
4.Robinson
5.Shaq
I do not agree with that. There is no clear cut “king” in sports. Ali was head-and-shoulders above everybody else, and Tiger revolutionized the game, but people can make a great case for Spitz in swimming, and Sampras, Borg, McEnroe in Tennis. For team sports, as you mentioned, there are many variables, some players are being put in more favourable situations than others. Jordan wasn’t viewed as being on the same level as Bird and Magic earlier on in his career even though he put up phenomenal stats, he was viewed as a better player later on in his career when he got worse stats, and why is that? Because he got better teammates who compliments his skills.
Pippen got much better, Ho Grant/Rodman provided the interior defense and rebounding, Bill Cartwright proved to be a perfect complimentary player who holds the paint down and can score in spurts, even the Longleys and the Wenningtons provided good outside shooting to open up the lane. Then there are those deadly three point shooters who made teams pay when you collapse on the lane and stop Jordan and Pippen from drives.
Jordan got better in terms of trusting his teammates and passing the ball, low post scoring and maybe outside shooting, but he wasn’t as effective driving in the paint, nor was he that great defensively later on in his career (his reputation bailed him out). Yet he was viewed as being a rung below Magic and Bird to clearly better. Why is that? The only reason was because his teams won more and was dominant, and much of that was because of the makeup of the team and improvement in his teammates.
Accomplishments does not mean rings. Horry was all but a complimentary player to the best sense on those teams. He provided excellent intangibles, but in most cases, he wasn’t even the top 3 option. To draw a parallel between Robinson’s career and that of Dirk, Garnett and Webber is asinine.
And that was the whole point of the thread, in which Robinson was thrust into a vastly inferior position because his teammates could do crack. Robinson faced double and triples throughout the series, and his incompetent coach couldn’t devise any plans to free up his star centre, while his teammates couldn’t nail an open jumpshot. Hakeem on the other hand had teammates who bombed the crap out of anyone who left them open.
Here is a summary:
Through the series, the Rockets shot 127 3 pointers, making 44 for 34.7%, the Spurs shot 72, making 23 for 31.9% They almost DOUBLED the amount of 3pters the Spurs shot.
Another interesting fact, Avery Johnson shot more FGA than Robinson in game 4, got the same amount in game 5, shot only one less in game 3 and 3 less in game 1. In game two, he got in trouble, and his subs ute, Doc Rivers, got one less shot than Robinson did despite playing much fewer minutes. Guess that shows how Robinson was doubled and tripled throughout and his PGs, who were KNOWN to be poor shooters, were shooting about the same amount of shots as he did.
I never argued that Duncan is much better than Robinson, I think they are about the same, with Duncan being slightly better. And as was previously discussed, I believe from an individual talent point of view, Hakeem > Duncan, but if I were to build a team, I would pick Duncan in his prime over Hakeem, simply because Duncan is more versatile and has proven he can take teams with vastly different philosophies to les.In my mind, Hakeem is to the center position what Jordan was to the shooting guard position. They both raised the bar of how those positions will forever be played. I cant say the same for Robinson.
To put it in clear cut perspective. If Robinson is as close to Hakeem like you guys say he is, then Duncan is clear cut better than Hakeem. You wouldnt make that claim would you? Because we all know Duncan is obviously better than Robinson right. And dont come back with... oh, Duncan is a power foward. He is a center playing out of position, and he should be recognized with the rest of the great centers, but Spurs fans would rather recognize him as the best power foward just to have bragging rights. Thats all fine, but if you truly look past your homerism, you would see my point.
God I cant wait until the season starts...
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