Yeah Democrats lie, but the fact of the matter is that right now McCain's campaign is really really really lying through their teeth far worse than any modern presidential campaign. Republicans are taking notice to the extent this is occurring and are even speaking out against it.
This is not a partisan talking point; this is the reality that McCain is doing something I feel should not be allowed.
Its getting play among people who actually pay attention and its being acknowledged quite readily. The problem is that this isn't where the average American voter gets their info.
Not that this really needed proving, but McCain is proving the Avg American takes far too much as fact. Whether it comes from a stupid ad, chain letter, or out of the mouths of pundits it doesn't matter if its true just as long as someone says it.
I won't argue the point; it is valid.
FWIW, in Sunday school today; a person said they had changed from McCain to Obama because Palin believe dinosaurs never existed.
@ the Republicans lying more than the Democrats...
McCain asked Obama to do town hall debates during this campaign and Obama wants no part of it...I wonder why.
The media is so in the tank for Obama it isn't even funny....
And what they did to Palin flatly exposed them.
So much for the McCain-Palin bounce..
LinkyToday's Diageo/Hotline poll shows Obama-Biden leading McCain-Palin 45% to 43%. Yesterday, McCain-Palin were leading 45% to 44%.
One likely reason for the swing: men. In yesterday's poll, McCain was leading among men by 12 pts. Today, it's just 4 pts. Meanwhile, Obama's advantage among women has remained consistent over the last three polls ranging between 8 and 9 pts.
Today's survey, conducted 9/11-13 by FD, is the seventh daily installment tracking the two tickets. Party ID breakdown for the 904 RV sample is 43%D, 34%R, 20%I. The data carries a margin of error of +/- 3.3%.
Shouldn't make the same mistake Whott made and read to much into this poll, but McSame needs to start running on the issues or the debates could be his death kneel....
Yeah I see the point you're trying to make as well. Personally I thing this should be a no-brainer I guess people are happy with the way things are now....
I'm just really hoping this thing will even back out again. But the trend is turning. Now if this jsut happens to be a blip (which I think it is) or the beginning of the end for Obama remains to be seen. Still too early.
I agree with what others have said.
What we are witnessing is the beginning of a disturbing trend in politics, with each passing election it becomes more and more like American Idol.
The degree to which McCain is lying is unprecedented. Nearly every statement he and Palin make is an outright bogus lie. He really is going into uncharted territories in this regard that not even Bush dared to.
They were talking about that on a political show I was looking at earlier. Alot of the American people believe what the hear. Especially ones who don't have access to research tools. We can look up his BS, but for others they just go with whatever they spout out because they feel as though they are telling the truth. I hope so bad that he gets what he deserves during the debates.... Pretty much the McCain camp is just saying it at this point.....Win any means necessary. If it means getting an underqualified nobody, lying, whatever it takes to win.....
EVERYONE has access to research tools. They just don't care. The public library system here has computers at every branch with free access to the net. Lots of people go use them. Walk into any library and you'll see a bunch of people without computers surfing the net at the library. Of course, more than half will be on facebook and myspace...
The Dems are beginning to get it: Accept the fact that Sarah Palin is well-loved by the GOP and not outright hated by Independents. People can like her and still not vote for the ticket that she's on:
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5...t6UJiA8xD7JcHw
WASHINGTON (AFP) — Barack Obama seems finally to have hit on a strategy to fight the Sarah Palin phenomenon: sidestep the feisty Republican vice presidential pick and turn full fire on an "out of touch" John McCain.
Palin's explosive debut left Obama's Democratic White House campaign flailing for an initial response as she trumped him as the freshest and most magnetic character in the history-making 2008 race.
Appearing on the "Late Show with David Letterman" Wednesday, the first African-American with a serious shot at the White House mused ruefully on how he had been upstaged.
"We didn't know much about her. Honestly, she's a skilled politician. There's no doubt that she has been a phenomenon," Obama said.
The Alaska governor made instant converts of the Republican conservative base, kick-started McCain's misfiring campaign and wiped out Obama's small but consistent leads in national opinion polls.
But the Democrat is now firing back -- branding 72-year-old McCain as an economic illiterate stuck in the pre-Internet era, while vowing to parry a negative post-convention Republican barrage.
"I think Palin's candidacy was such a surprise and she was such an unknown that it threw off the Obama campaign and drew them away from their message," said Kathleen Kendall of the University of Maryland.
Early Obama camp responses to Palin's broadsides seemed churlish, open to Republican complaints of sexism and left a candidate determined to elevate political discourse stuck in the trenches of snarling soundbite politics.
As visions of defeat on November 4 and Democratic panic engulfed liberal blogs, the Obama camp had a rethink.
The new battleplan turns the heat on McCain, and not his charismatic sidekick.
A day after Obama huddled with Bill Clinton, one of the former president's top aides, political bruiser Rahm Emanuel, led a fresh bid to frame the choice before voters -- with a distinctly Clintonian tone.
"What John McCain is offering you is two for one," the Illinois congressman said.
"George (W.) Bush's economic policies and Cheney's foreign policy -- you're going to get four more years of just what you got for the last eight years."
Later Friday, Emanuel passed up a chance on MSNBC to critique Palin's shaky performance in her first major television interview.
A blistering memo by Obama campaign manager David Plouffe only mentioned the Alaska governor in passing. For the first time in days the Illinois Senator skipped references to Palin at a rally in New Hampshire Friday.
Their reasoning was clear: deprive Palin of the spotlight and make a new attempt to twin McCain with unpopular Republican President Bush.
Ironically, Bush's political guru Karl Rove warned in a Wall Street Journal article on Thursday that attacking Palin was bad politics for Obama.
"These assaults highlight his own tissue-thin resume, waste precious time better spent reassuring voters he is up for the job and diminish him -- not her," Rove wrote.
Democrats view Rove with a mixture of dread and awe, and might ask, if Palin has been so influential, shouldn't the party try to take her down?
"It is not a good idea to dwell on her," said Bruce Buchanan, a political analyst at the University of Texas at Austin.
"Sooner or later it is going to be about McCain again."
But will an assault on McCain also dim Palin's influence on the race?
Polls in battleground states reveal that Palin is drawing increasing support among the crucial voter group of white, working class women.
In Quinnipiac University surveys, McCain's support among white women voters grew four percentage points in Ohio and five points in Pennsylvania since August 26.
Cue Hillary Clinton: the Democratic former first lady and Obama's vanquished primary foe was set to campaign for Obama in northeastern Ohio on Sunday, no doubt aiming to fire up her white, working-class base for Obama.
Clinton has so far not publicly attacked Palin, amid reports she does not want to detract from the Obama campaign with a headline-grabbing public spat with the Alaska governor.
But the shape of the electorate also suggests that Clinton alone may not be a decisive factor in stemming the flow of women away from Obama towards McCain.
"Hillary got about 10 million votes in the Democratic primary from women," said Peter Brown of the Quinnipiac University polling ins ute.
"You will probably see about 62 million women vote in November -- it's the other 52 million that Palin is aimed at -- if they get some of the Hillary voters that is gravy."
Sorry, but Washington, Minnesota and New Jersey are staying blue.
Maybe I will change things and not watch the election coverage. The last two I watched the canidate I supported lost. Maybe if I just wake up on Nov 5th I will see that Obama pulled it off.
Latest Poll of likely New York voters is now an 18 point swing from Obama to McCain
Obama 46
McCain 41
http://www.hillaryclintonforum.net/d...ad.php?t=30098
Siena New York Poll:
With 50 Days Left, New York Is Far From True Blue
Obama’s Lead Falls to 5 Points; Down From 18 Points in June
Obama Seen As Stronger Than McCain on 4 of 6 Issues;
Voters See McCain As Better Than Obama on 4 of 6 of Attributes
Loudonville, NY. Seven weeks until Election Day, the race for President has tightened in New York, with Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL) leading Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) 46-41 percent among likely voters, according to a new Siena (College) Research Ins ute poll released today. Obama’s five point lead is down from eight points in August, 13 points in July and 18 points in June, when he led 51-33 percent. On a series of six questions concerning current issues in the campaign – economy, Iraq, terrorism, health care, America’s position in the world, and education – likely voters believe Obama will do a better job on four. Conversely, out of six attributes voters often look at in choosing a candidate – compassion, patriotism, experience, intelligence, integrity, and leadership – New York’s electorate gives the edge to McCain on four.
“Although New York has long been regarded as a ‘safe’ state for the Democrats in presidential politics, likely voters in the Empire State are currently only giving Senator Obama a five-point cushion,” said Steven Greenberg, spokesman for the Siena New York Poll. “The conventions are over. The running mates are set. And as voters begin to focus on the race, New York’s overwhelming Democratic enrollment advantage is not reflected in how voters tell Siena they plan to vote.”
McCain isn't taking New York. He likely doesn't even have enough of a ground operation there to force Obama to defend it more.
Ohio
McCain 46
Obama 42
http://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/...15/daily3.html
Suffolk University reported Monday that a poll of 600 likely voters in the state last week found Republican presidential hopeful John McCain and Palin have 46 percent support among Ohioans in their bid for the White House. The Democrat’s ticket, Barack Obama and Joe Biden, have 42 percent of the state’s vote, the Boston-based school said.
When asked which of the four presidential and vice presidential nominees is most like them, nearly a third named Palin, the governor of Alaska. Obama trailed with 22 percent, followed by McCain at 21 percent and Biden at 13 percent.
Of those surveyed, 49 percent said they trust McCain more, versus 41 percent for Obama. McCain also trumped Obama when voters were asked who is more likely to fulfill a pledge to lower taxes. Forty-one percent of surveyed voters said McCain, a senator from Arizona, is more likely to live up to his word, versus 31 percent for Obama, the Illinois senator.
It's over barring Palin or McCain being behind September 11th.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/09152008..._ny_129211.htm
LADIES' MAN MAC IS A PLAYER IN NY
BOOSTED by the selection of Sarah Palin as his running mate, Republican John McCain has experienced a surge of support among women in heavily Democratic New York state - where he has closed the gap with Barack Obama, new private polls show.
The internal Republican and Democratic polls, details of which were provided to The Post, have stunned members of both parties - and produced deep worries among Democrats.
POLL: McCain Picks Up 5 Points in NY
One great concern for Democrats is that the data show a continuous movement toward the McCain-Palin ticket by women, a majority of whom traditionally favor Democrats.
The movement by women toward McCain is being credited to Democratic attacks on Alaska Gov. Palin, last week's "lipstick on a pig" crack by Obama and to the continuing unhappiness by female Democrats over Obama's failure to pick Hillary Rodham Clinton as his running mate.
"If it winds up being tight in New York, that means McCain wins the election nationally," said a prominent Democrat familiar with some of the polling data.
A prominent Republican familiar with the results said, "It really is something, because we just assumed Obama would carry such a heavily Democratic state like New York with no difficulty."
The private polls have consistently shown the Obama-Biden ticket still leading but with less than 50 percent of the vote in a state where Democrats outnumber Republicans by over 2.3 million voters.
The polls found McCain closing the gap with Obama during the past 10 days - in the wake of Palin's sensational GOP convention speech, Obama's crack that "You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig," and amid a swirling controversy over Palin's credentials to be vice president.
The polling data track the findings of a little-noticed Marist College poll of likely New Jersey voters late last week that found Obama barely ahead of McCain, 48 percent to 45 percent. New Jersey generally votes Democratic, though its enrollment is not as heavily Democratic as New York state's.
The findings of the private polls will be tested by a series of public polls to be released over the next two weeks - starting with a Siena College survey of likely voters due out today.
A Siena poll in August had Obama leading McCain 47 percent to 39 percent. McCain is expected to make a significant move over the 40 percent mark when the new numbers are released today.
The private polling also points to a closer battle for control of the state Senate. Because of the way many Senate district lines have been drawn, Republicans, fighting to hold their narrow majority, are expected to benefit most from a close New York presidential race, insiders agree.
McCain's surge in New York polling comes at a time when his national operatives have rebuffed requests from New York campaign chairman Ed Cox, a Manhattan lawyer and son-in-law to former President Richard Nixon, to spend some serious campaign money in the state.
"Ed was told, 'You have no money for a campaign here, so why should we spend any?' " a nationally known Republican operative told The Post.
"The McCain people think of Ed as a nice guy, but there's no money for an organization in New York, so they ask, 'Why go in?' " the GOP operative continued.
The Republican operative, meanwhile, sounded downright gleeful about the political fallout from US Rep. Charles Rangel's failure to pay income taxes from the rental of his luxurious villa in the Dominican Republic.
"Rangel has turned into a big liability for the Democrats, and his troubles are playing into the 'anti- politician' mood around the country," he said.
You do realize part of the reason for this thread was me calling NY being in play by Nov to Manny and him wanting a further discussion of it.
Just wait till they find out McCain and Palin are government moderates...the media has been doing a great job of covering that up, especially with Palin...and the backlash from that is going to be huge.
It's going to happen in the debates when they can't edit Palin's comments or take them out of context.
Obama doesn't have a ground game there either...he didn't expect to need one.
LOL Hillary will no doubt "campaign" for him here
http://www.surveyusa.com/client/Poll...5-ae05355e8eb8
Obama up 4 on McCain in Virginia. I find it hard to believe that Obama has a lead on McCain outside of the margin in Virginia while his lead is frittering away in a very blue state. That makes no sense.
If McCain wins New York or ends up running very close there, that means a landslide across the country. Most likely McCain avoids the temptation to start spending money there, just because a single poll has him compe ive means little.
Back to the main reason I called NY being in play in the first place...
NY has over 1 million more female voters than male...and Hillary was their girl. NY is where the backlash is going to be felt. He pulled 39% of the vote in the primaries.
There are other reasons...main one being that New York is extremely patriotic and it's a mistake to think they aren't just because they didn't go for W in 2004. They didn't go for W because they didn't respect him. They'll respect McCain...he is the exactly the type of guy they will respect.
We're going to have to have some sig bets or something on the outcome of certain states.Obama doesn't have a ground game there either...he didn't expect to need one.
LOL Hillary will no doubt "campaign" for him here
Are you predicting NY will go red?
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