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I'm inclined to think this is the best way to go. Doubt it but it could happened. Ian being hurt makes Tolliver a need
Tolliver will be a spare...keep Farmer and Hairston.
I'm inclined to think this is the best way to go. Doubt it but it could happened. Ian being hurt makes Tolliver a need
Spurs can do whatever they want with the last couple of roster spots. From what I've seen, Farmer, Hairston and Tolliver are quite marginal NBA talent.
I wouldn't even be disapointed if they waive all three.
if they did that then I wouldn't expect much in the future. You have to start DEVELOPING young guys at some point if for nothing but trade bait. We are not going to get 1st round talent through the draft or trade with nothing and the payroll for the Spurs stays low because of the market they are These guys are worth developing for now especially when the ace was grabbing guys from overseas and now that's out i.e Tiago Splitter and James Gist
I guess they need Tolliver since Bonner sucks (no defense) and Mahinmi is still a big question mark. Since Oberto and Thomas are both slow and similar players, the Spurs just don't have much depth at the PF/C position.
I like Hairston better than Farmer because he is younger, bigger and more athletic. Neither one would play that much this year barring disaster, so why not go with the potential? Also, I think Hairston would be more attractive as trade bait, maybe packaged with Bonner and traded for a veteran big and 2nd round pick.
The thing that has me pulling my hair out is that Tolliver doesn't do anything that Bonner doesn't do. He's not a defender, he's not a rebounder, he's not a ball handler, and he's not a great decision maker. He's certainly not looking like any better a shooter. All keeping Tolliver does is give the Spurs twice as many crappy backup power forwards on the roster, and a big who plays like a wing. I have a feeling all he's going to do is keep Bonner's spot in the doghouse warm from time to time.
If you are worried about Bonner's defense, you keep Hairston, not Tolliver. If you care about scoring, you keep Farmer, not Tolliver. That leaves him out AFAIC. The only arguments I've seen for keeping him are either incorrect facts about his game or statements that it's a fait accompli just because of things that come up when entering Pop's quotes into a secret decoder ring. To paraphrase Charles Barkley: Tolliver's tall, but so is a stepladder, and I don't want a stepladder out there on the floor in November with a Spurs jersey on it.
Yeah, but Tolliver is cheaper
Cheaper than what? The Spurs have a contract invested in Farmer and have a draft pick invested in Hairston. If they are going to piss that away to keep a guy that won't pan out in the long run then I suppose they deserve him.
Tolliver is cheaper than Bonner is all I'm saying, contract is less
Anthony Tolliver (TR) $711,517 2 years
Matt Bonner $2,978,000 2 years
you dont develop rotations worthy talent from your camp fodder. you develop bench fodder from your camp fodder. these guys are marginal players and will have marginal impacts over their careers. such players do not, nor will not have much of any trade value.
and if tolliver, farmer, and hairston are our future, we are screwed regardless.
I'm sure the Spurs are trying to get rid of Bonner. Eventually we could get one of these cut dudes back.
well I respect what you're saying I've yet to see any of these guys play so I reserve judgement on whether they are fodder or not. There have been gems from the second round and from guys who haven't made team cuts, I remember when McGrady and J.O'Neal where supposedly on their way out the league, you have to develop some guys. Everyone is not coming through the draft and the Spurs' approach lends me to believe developing what you have is a good way to go until you can atleast bring in Superstar talent.
Oh yeah. Gotcha. I've said a number of times, that if it were possible to choose between Tolliver and Bonner, I'd be fine with taking Tolliver. It's not likely the Spurs are going to be able to move him before they have to make a decision on cuts.
I'd say that Tolliver is the least likely of the three that are left to be picked up, so if they think they can free up a roster spot, he's still the cut to make.
those guys were the 9th pick and 17th pick in the draft, and were both straight out of high school. the guys we are talking about are both 4 year seniors, one of them being 2 years removed from his collegiate days after going undrafted and the other being a mid 2nd round pick after a somewhat underwhelming college career. and both are fighting it out with the other camp fodder to make it as the 15th man.
sure, there is always a chance that one of these guys is the 1 in 100 shot guys, like jamario moon was last year. but out of all the camp fodder on all the teams last year, hes probably the only guy to actually have any impact. so if we figure each team brings in between 3 and 5 of these guys to camp, and we have 30 teams, it would be generous to say that these guys have about a 1% chance of becoming a marginal rotational player.
im not trying to be a about all this (or some long-winded sequ), but i just get sick of hearing how we better sign player x because we need whatever it is that he brings. when in reality the only things these guys will be bringing is donuts to practice and a suit to game nights...
Hey if Luke Walton can find a niche in the NBA then I like their chances, I don't expect to find a Superstar in those guys but if we can get a MArio Elie type I'd be happy.
Tolliver's a lock and Farmer seems to be too confident and effective a shooter. I like his at ude too. His workouts are great. I see it being Hairston, but we won't know till the deadline according to Pop.
Now you are just making stuff up. How is he not a rebounder? He had 8 boards in the Indy game with 4 on the offensive glass...and that wasn't his only multiple offensive rebounding game. He has also had a couple of games with multiple steals. If he can do those things he is already 150% better than Bonner. Its also unfair to compare him to Bonner because Bonner KNOWS the system. Tolliver...like the other invitees is still learning...and he is STILL outplaying Bonner. I agree the shooting hasn't been there...but it was so noticeable he was trying too hard in the first couple of games that even Duncan said something about it. He has gotten better with every game. He had his best rebounding game in the Indy game and he had his best shooting game statistically last night.
So what are you saying? Are you saying that you are wanting to play Hairston at PF?If you are worried about Bonner's defense, you keep Hairston, not Tolliver. If you care about scoring, you keep Farmer, not Tolliver. That leaves him out AFAIC. The only arguments I've seen for keeping him are either incorrect facts about his game or statements that it's a fait accompli just because of things that come up when entering Pop's quotes into a secret decoder ring. To paraphrase Charles Barkley: Tolliver's tall, but so is a stepladder, and I don't want a stepladder out there on the floor in November with a Spurs jersey on it.He is just big enough to be a SG/SF tweener. I know he plays pretty good man defense and seems pretty fearless...but I have a hard time trusting that against a PF. Its funny how you would love to keep Farmer...but you completely ignore the deficiencies in his game like you ignore the good in Tollivers. You say you don't want a stepladder out there in November. I would counter with I don't want a streaky 3pt shooter that has been unimpressive finishing at the rim and plays very little defense.
At the end of the day all of these guys have positives and negatives. Its a crap shoot either way. I maintain that we need the size over the shooting.
Last edited by benefactor; 10-23-2008 at 09:29 PM.
this is so tough....
I think that Hairston could provide an array of intangibles during the course of a game. So far Farmer has been one dimensional in my eyes. Sure the guy can score alot, but other teams will figure that out and will do all they can to slow him down.
It's called rotating the ball.
If we have a great shooter, leaves others open or disables a double team.
You go make a sandwich when he almost had an alley oop dunk from Farmer? Or dunked on Yao while he was flat-footed(courtesy of OV)!!! Next you're going to say Tolliver takes high % shots.
Last edited by Manufan909; 10-23-2008 at 10:32 PM.
For what it's worth, I've done some calculations on preseason +/- for the two wings, Hairston and Farmer.
Plus/Minus = team point differential during the player's time on the floor
Through the Washington game (6 games each):
Hairston +44
Farmer +16
Hairston has averaged 3.7 mpg (21.7) more than Farmer (18.0).
There are many factors that go into +/- numbers, but over time a case can be made for a player's impact on the team. Manu Ginobili led the Spurs in 2007-08 regular season in +/-.
Last edited by Solid D; 10-23-2008 at 10:46 PM.
Based from the preseason games, I'd say Tolliver.
Was Tolliver even positive?
the problem is pop loves vets... that no time to perm some young fella into what we want him to be, we are in a win win situation now, last chance
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