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  1. #51
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Meanwhile, artic sea ice growing at fastest pace on record.

    http://www.dailytech.com/Sea+Ice+Gro...ticle13385.htm
    The original graph in the article (1592 x 612) can be found here along with other nice data. I like these:






  2. #52
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    In a way, you are right. Global warming catastrophists are a kinda like religious zealots. If you don't run around saying that sea levels will rise by 200 feet (Meredith Viera said this on the kick off of NBC's "Green week")
    Actually, I was referring to both sides. Identifying Meredith Viera as a pro-global warming leader is kind of like naming SequSpur as a prototypical Spur fan.

  3. #53
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Global warming we've done. A LOT.

    Bears in a cave, we haven't.
    Indeed.

    Bears in a cave = funny

    Anthrogenic Global Warming = not so much.


    Pop quiz:

    Languages tend to change over time, as do individual words, some more than others.

    Everyday words tend to change the least, such as bodyparts and so forth. This is why the german word for hand is... "hand". English and German diverged centuries ago, but this word among others was fairly stable.

    What word was found after analysis to be the most stable over time in the European family of languages? (according to my old linguistics professor)

  4. #54
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Some people for example advocate using hydrogen. Well, it takes 44,000 watt hours of power to make the equivalent of one gallon gas. OK, so we burn more coal so we can make a dangerous hydrogen power transportation system. Not very bright in my opinion. Most alternates offered have consequences of their own. Besides the danger of hydrogen in accidents, at 10 cents a kWatt, it cost $4.40 just for the power to make it. Add profits, labor, etc... How much would hydrogen cost?
    That depends on the cost of electricity and the efficiency of the process you use to convert electricity into usable energy for transportation.

    With technological innovation, the latter will rise, and the former will fall.

    One of the interesting things about renewables like solar photovoltaic is that the first solar panels created in the 60's and 70's (if memory serves) are still producing electricity decades later. A lot of the cost analysis of such things makes the assumption of 10-15 years of usable life of any panel, but no one truly knows. They do lose generating capacity over time, but there are some reasonable estimates that put the usable life span of solar panels at 50 years.

    Technology gains have shortened the "payback" time for solar panels, both energy payback and monetary, and will certainly continue to do so.

  5. #55
    Live by what you Speak. DarkReign's Avatar
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    What word was found after analysis to be the most stable over time in the European family of languages? (according to my old linguistics professor)
    Does it have to spelled the same or just pronounced the same?

  6. #56
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Does it have to spelled the same or just pronounced the same?
    The english version will suffice. This word would be almost recognizable to a person a thousand years ago as today.

  7. #57
    It is what it is. I Love Me Some Me's Avatar
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    The english version will suffice. This word would be almost recognizable to a person a thousand years ago as today.
    DOOMZ?

  8. #58
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    That depends on the cost of electricity and the efficiency of the process you use to convert electricity into usable energy for transportation.

    With technological innovation, the latter will rise, and the former will fall.
    Am I to understand that you say the efficiency of making hydrogen will increae and the cost of electricity will go down?

    Hydropgen can already be made rather efficiently. The problem is the process causes it's own problem... Pollution! There are several chemical reactive processes to release hydrogen. What do you do with the waste? As for hydrogen extraction from water with electricity... If you ever made that more efficient, you probably have perpetual motion!

    Now the cost of electricity. Do you really forsee a time when it costs ud less rather than more? I only see it if some technical breakthrough like cheap cold fusion becomes available. We continue to demand more energy from limited supplies. Prices can only rise under such cir stances.

    One of the interesting things about renewables like solar photovoltaic is that the first solar panels created in the 60's and 70's (if memory serves) are still producing electricity decades later. A lot of the cost analysis of such things makes the assumption of 10-15 years of usable life of any panel, but no one truly knows. They do lose generating capacity over time, but there are some reasonable estimates that put the usable life span of solar panels at 50 years.

    Technology gains have shortened the "payback" time for solar panels, both energy payback and monetary, and will certainly continue to do so.
    I am all for solar panels and I agree. I myself have used the sort lifespan argument, but most things do last longer unless abused. I don't get much sunlight where I live, but I did incorporate a solar cell charger to a car battery for my storage shed. Didn't have to run any AC that way, and use 12 volt lighting when I need light. Works great. I get enough sunlight to keep retain more power than I use. Any thought of using solar power for the house is out of the question unless I were to cut a clear path to the sun out of the way, destroyong several tall fir trees. I like the trees better.

  9. #59
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Actually, I was referring to both sides. Identifying Meredith Viera as a pro-global warming leader is kind of like naming SequSpur as a prototypical Spur fan.
    Can you name one of us 'Deniers' who act like zeolots? I only see unreasonable pushing of propaganda from the 'Alarmists.' People like me provide reasonable information.

  10. #60
    Live by what you Speak. DarkReign's Avatar
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    The english version will suffice. This word would be almost recognizable to a person a thousand years ago as today.
    Hmmm, if I had to guess...

    Okay.

  11. #61
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Hmmm, if I had to guess...

    Okay.
    The answer:

    To fart.

    German:

    Fuhrzen.

    I think it says something about the humanity that the word fart is one of the most used and recognizable words around. When you can dig up a 1600 year old joke book from ancient greece and find jokes on flatulence that says to me that fart jokes are a high art form.

  12. #62
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    Actually, I was referring to both sides. Identifying Meredith Viera as a pro-global warming leader is kind of like naming SequSpur as a prototypical Spur fan.

    I didn't refer to her as an expert. I was just pointing out that the MSM goes nuts with this stuff and no one really calls them out on it.

  13. #63
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Southern sea ice is more than 300,000 square kilometers greater than average.

    How about it believers...

  14. #64
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Bump

  15. #65
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    You're a in zombie reanimator, WildCobra. You know that? This thread went nowhere the first time. It died. Did that bother you?

  16. #66
    "We'll do it this time" Bartleby's Avatar
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    The answer:

    To fart.

    German:

    Fuhrzen.

    I think it says something about the humanity that the word fart is one of the most used and recognizable words around. When you can dig up a 1600 year old joke book from ancient greece and find jokes on flatulence that says to me that fart jokes are a high art form.
    I remember hearing that "mama" (ma, mom etc.) is fairly universal as well--I think it has to do with the sounds infants make when breastfeeding, or so the theory goes.

  17. #67
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    There is the redeeming fart joke. Good point, Bartleby.

  18. #68
    Veteran ratm1221's Avatar
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    I find it funny that the people that argue that there is no global warming because there is no evidence to support it, are the same people that believe there is a man that lives in the sky.

  19. #69
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    I find it funny that the people that argue that there is no global warming because there is no evidence to support it, are the same people that believe there is a man that lives in the sky.
    Eh, more like ordinary.

    People won't accept reasons for what they believe. They may use reason on children, students and unbelievers, but belief in the sense that believers mean it, is not rationally based at all.

  20. #70
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    There is a semantic tangle over the word belief. Scientists mean something different by it.

  21. #71
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Southern sea ice is more than 300,000 square kilometers greater than average.

    How about it believers...
    How about the fact that the western portion of antarctica actually turned out to be warmer than we thought it was?

    How much of your science is sponsored by the coal/gas/oil companies?

    Since they have every motivation to lie, and to fund science that refutes how much they are really damaging the environment with their products, how much of that science have you found?

    What flaws in reasoning have you found in some of the science you quote here?

    Do they make claims that their data cannot fully support?

  22. #72
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    How about the fact that the western portion of antarctica actually turned out to be warmer than we thought it was?
    What percentage of Antarctica does this "western portion" represent? What is going on with the rest of Antarctica?

  23. #73
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    I find it funny that the people that argue that there is no global warming because there is no evidence to support it, are the same people that believe there is a man that lives in the sky.

    Who are you referring to?

    I'm not a religous person.

  24. #74
    Veteran ratm1221's Avatar
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    Who are you referring to?

    I'm not a religous person.
    Oh, you're THAT guy...

  25. #75
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Oh, you're THAT guy...
    I think DarrinS is saying he doesn't like the professional consensus. That's a little different than being an obtuse fundamentalist. He's a scientist with a competing theory, or something like that.

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