And the Spurs pay for their hubris.

[objective]

Ownership and management thought, after the 2007 le, that they had figured it out. They had found that balance between winning championships and profitability. Lauded, they were, by many in the media, who focused on Pop's coaching style and his system, but as well on their personnel and payroll decisions. Not to mention their love of Luxury Tax payouts.

Many fans believed this nonsense as well. Of course, had the Mavs not pulled the luck of the draw in the 1st round of that playoffs with the Warriors, 2007 might well have had a different outcome for the Spurs.

So good, the Spurs thought they were, they could gift talent to a team in their division for nothing but to save a few bucks. Naturally during the following season they would give up a 1st round pick to land a player at that same position.

As it stands, the Spurs pin their hopes on yet another magical free agent summer going forward, content to piss away the few remaining seasons left of one of the greatest bigmen ever to play the game.

Pretty much what I've been telling people since 2007. That le led to bad decisions, and the damage is done.

The Spurs aren't legit contenders anymore, and they weren't before Manu's season was ended. They don't have the talent. Period.

And there's no way to re-stock the cupboards unless there's a miracle like a Pau Gasol-type collusion or James Gist turns into James Worthy.

Ian Mahinmi will be off the roster by July 15th (I think more likely than not, at least 51-49 that he's gone). There's no first round pick this summer, and even if there was, Pop would play some washed up completely shot vet instead anyway. Tiago Splitter will never be a Spur. Michael Finley will still be on the rost with a no-trade clause. Ditto for Kurt Thomas. Bonner will be under contract.

There's no money for free agency even if the economy was awesome. The most they can do is re-sign Drew Gooden (no difference maker) or sign Rasheed Wallace (no difference maker at this point in his career). There's nothing they can do.

The Spurs flat out weren't talented enough to be throwing away good players who were available only to them at a small, reasonable contract like Scola.

And when you talk about hubris don't forget how the Spurs handled Splitter. While Rudy Fernandez was getting wined and dined and begged by all the Portland top brass according to blazer boards at the time, RC, Lindsey and Pop all sat around town twiddling their thumbs refusing to guarantee Splitter whatever he wanted with regards to playing time to get him to to sign the contract. Paying him no respect while expecting him to give up many millions of dollars, Splitter is left with Tau singing in his ear about how important he is and how much he's worth.

[rascal]

While the Spurs perhaps could not have predicted the Gasol trade, they certainly should have expected that the rest of the league would find ways to improve...and that giving up talent for profit might not have been such a great idea.

This was exactly my point in the summer of 2007. That other teams would not stay the same so the spurs need to also try to improve instead of being content that the 2007 team was going to be good enough with no upgrade in talent.

[Extra Stout]

If the Big 3 are healthy going into next year's playoffs, the Spurs are still too shaky on defense to play the way they have to play to win championships.

And the odds of the Big 3 being healthy are themselves pretty shaky. Manu Ginobili's health problems are pretty typical at his age for a guy who threw his body around in his twenties the way he did. Assuming he's suddenly going to perk up without having to give up being Manu Ginobili is more wishful thinking than realistic hope.

Tim Duncan has a loooooooot of miles on that odometer. The hypothesis that he would age gracefully assumed that his knees wouldn't act up the way they are acting up. The symptoms of tendonosis may clear up with rest, but the condition is chronic. This 15 and 8 Tim Duncan may well be the new normal.

Signs point to the era of Spurs dominance being over.

[SenorSpur]

So good, the Spurs thought they were, they could gift talent to a team in their division for nothing but to save a few bucks. Naturally during the following season they would give up a 1st round pick to land a player at that same position.

Had that Scola trade not been such a blantant salary dump and had the Spurs gotten some young player back from Houston in return (i.e. Carl Landry for example) it would have softened the blow somehwat and not reflected so terribly on thte franchise. However, because they were dead set on dumping Jackie Butler's albatross contract, they set themselves up for this. Same as Denver dumping Camby to the Clippers for virtually nothing. It serves them right for listening to Larry Brown and trading for Butler, in the first place. Since when LB become the guru on all things personnel?

[mexicanjunior]

Pretty much what I've been telling people since 2007. That le led to bad decisions, and the damage is done.

The Spurs aren't legit contenders anymore, and they weren't before Manu's season was ended. They don't have the talent. Period.

And there's no way to re-stock the cupboards unless there's a miracle like a Pau Gasol-type collusion or James Gist turns into James Worthy.

Ian Mahinmi will be off the roster by July 15th (I think more likely than not, at least 51-49 that he's gone). There's no first round pick this summer, and even if there was, Pop would play some washed up completely shot vet instead anyway. Tiago Splitter will never be a Spur. Michael Finley will still be on the rost with a no-trade clause. Ditto for Kurt Thomas. Bonner will be under contract.

There's no money for free agency even if the economy was awesome. The most they can do is re-sign Drew Gooden (no difference maker) or sign Rasheed Wallace (no difference maker at this point in his career). There's nothing they can do.

The Spurs flat out weren't talented enough to be throwing away good players who were available only to them at a small, reasonable contract like Scola.

And when you talk about hubris don't forget how the Spurs handled Splitter. While Rudy Fernandez was getting wined and dined and begged by all the Portland top brass according to blazer boards at the time, RC, Lindsey and Pop all sat around town twiddling their thumbs refusing to guarantee Splitter whatever he wanted with regards to playing time to get him to to sign the contract. Paying him no respect while expecting him to give up many millions of dollars, Splitter is left with Tau singing in his ear about how important he is and how much he's worth.

Dead on...

[Marcus Bryant]

In addition to believing they could give talent away in '07, they also thought they could keep the supporting cast together, instead of seeking an injection of new, younger blood.

The '07 le was great, but with respect to making personnel decisions for the future, it was fool's gold.

Another wrinkle is that the Spurs' personnel strategy assumed that the Big 3 would continue to be able to play at their high level over the next 3 seasons, until the wonderful summer of 2010 would allow them to bring in more talent to shoulder the load.

Such a strategy was easily exposed once once one of the Big 3 was at less than 100%.

[Marcus Bryant]

If the Big 3 are healthy going into next year's playoffs, the Spurs are still too shaky on defense to play the way they have to play to win championships.

And the odds of the Big 3 being healthy are themselves pretty shaky. Manu Ginobili's health problems are pretty typical at his age for a guy who threw his body around in his twenties the way he did. Assuming he's suddenly going to perk up without having to give up being Manu Ginobili is more wishful thinking than realistic hope.

Tim Duncan has a loooooooot of miles on that odometer. The hypothesis that he would age gracefully assumed that his knees wouldn't act up the way they are acting up. The symptoms of tendonosis may clear up with rest, but the condition is chronic. This 15 and 8 Tim Duncan may well be the new normal.

Signs point to the era of Spurs dominance being over.

In general, I don't have a problem with the Spurs assuming that Duncan would be able to play at some decent percentage of his peak ability (~85-90%). Without him at such a level, they wouldn't have a shot at another le.

Perhaps we are at that point now. If so, it's been one of a ride and TD is the greatest Spur of all time.

Meanwhile, because Peter Holt didn't want to incur the cost of $20 mil over 3 years, one of the would be answers to this problem wears a different uniform. $6.67 mil per is probably the average salary for a NBA big. Hope those Lux Tax checks were worth it, Holt Cat.

[Marcus Bryant]

Had that Scola trade not been such a blantant salary dump and had the Spurs gotten some young player back from Houston in return (i.e. Carl Landry for example) it would have softened the blow somehwat and not reflected so terribly on thte franchise. However, because they were dead set on dumping Jackie Butler's albatross contract, they set themselves up for this. Same as Denver dumping Camby to the Clippers for virtually nothing. It serves them right for listening to Larry Brown and trading for Butler, in the first place. Since when LB become the guru on all things personnel?

Part of the reason the Scola trade happened was that Holt Cat was sold on the investment in international scouting as a way to add great talent on the cheap. It's great when you can add a Emmanuel Ginobili to your team for 2 years and $3 mil, or whatever it was. It's quite another when that talent will cost you $20 mil over 3 years. Another reason it happened was that Holt Cat fell in love with the Lux Tax payments. Now if the Spurs couldn't figure out that Luis Scola would be able to make the transition to the NBA and play very well then we have larger problems. The fact that the Spurs as an organization were willing to give that up to boost their profit in the near term says plenty about how they view their loyal fan base. A fan base that provided them one of the sweetest arena deals in all of American professional sport.

[Kori Ellis]

trading scola was smart
could have got more
scola hatted pop
he could not handle him

Are you just making up things in all your posts now?

[Marcus Bryant]

And when you talk about hubris don't forget how the Spurs handled Splitter. While Rudy Fernandez was getting wined and dined and begged by all the Portland top brass according to blazer boards at the time, RC, Lindsey and Pop all sat around town twiddling their thumbs refusing to guarantee Splitter whatever he wanted with regards to playing time to get him to to sign the contract. Paying him no respect while expecting him to give up many millions of dollars, Splitter is left with Tau singing in his ear about how important he is and how much he's worth.

The Spurs were behind the 8 ball from the start with Splitter, so I'm not really that pissed about it. Given how the other players who were drafted after him have fared in the league, taking a flyer on a player like him wasn't that big of a mistake. Then they were stuck with the rookie scale contract limitations.

Perhaps kissing his ass a little more or offering a starting gig (I'm not sure it's been settled that the Spurs did not do that) would have helped. But at the end of the day, the euros talked.

Scola's case was much more egregious, even before the trade. The Spurs were still spouting the line that he had some kind of horrible buyout fee in '06/early '07 (IIRC) and of course he signs for 3 years, $10 mil the moment another team acquires his rights.

That's what sucking on that Lux Tax teat all of those years gets you, Holt Cat.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

The Scola trade to Houston definitely left me scratching my head, I'm not sure if that represented a show of bravado on the Spurs' FO part, thinking we were that much better than our conference rival...I don't know. And I do think there were several times the Spurs have been a little too conservative in their spending, thus missing out on some free agent opportunities along the way. Of course I'm not the one scratching the checks so that's easy for me to say.

But the Spurs did pursue Maggette, they did pursue Wallace and Camby and Carter. So I don't think they were resting on the big 3 being able to carry the team. I think this team is so handcuffed by its budget that they're not going to go over the cap. We see the effects of that thinking when a key player is hurt, but in all honesty, if Manu had played injury free this year, the Spurs' strategy would still look golden.

[SenorSpur]

Part of the reason the Scola trade happened was that Holt Cat was sold on the investment in international scouting as a way to add great talent on the cheap. It's great when you can add a Emmanuel Ginobili to your team for 2 years and $3 mil, or whatever it was. It's quite another when that talent will cost you $20 mil over 3 years. Another reason it happened was that Holt Cat fell in love with the Lux Tax payments. Now if the Spurs couldn't figure out that Luis Scola would be able to make the transition to the NBA and play very well then we have larger problems. The fact that the Spurs as an organization were willing to give that up to boost their profit in the near term says plenty about how they view their loyal fan base. A fan base that provided them one of the sweetest arena deals in all of American professional sport.

Very sobering thoughts.
To exacerbate the situation, Scola is playing very well, as a starter for a division rival. To further rub salt into the wound, he's doing so on a very cheap contract. No wonder Pop wants to spit every time he sees the guy.

I've always said that, after Tony and Manu, they went to the international well, way too often. Many times at the expense of domestic talent. Several of those Euro players drafted, during the post Tony and Manu period, will never see the inside of an NBA arena. I guess it's not surprising. I see the same philosophy used in free agency. They'd rather focus on the "end-of-career" vet, who was willing to play for the minimum, versus the mid-career free agent, who could play a vital role and make a contribution for a longer period of time.

I get the need to be fiscally responsible, but you have an obligation to your "future Hall of Fame power forward" to field a championship-contending team now. After all, he gave the franchise a bit of a hometown discount to resign. Where's the obligation to him?

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I get the need to be fiscally responsible, but you have an obligation to your "future Hall of Fame power forward" to field a championship-contending team now. After all, he gave the franchise a bit of a hometown discount to resign. Where's the obligation to him?

True, and when his run is over, the championship run for SA could very well be over as well. Capitalize when you can.

[MoSpur]

The only thing I disagreed with was them trading Scola for nothing and the re-signing of Michael Finley. They tried to get Maggette, but he opted for more money from Golden State.

[I Love Me Some Me]

What a bunch of biggity es.

Real easy to sit at your keyboard and tell someone else what to do with their money, and how much profit they should try and make. The goal of this franchise has always been to remain as compe ive as possible while making money. Unless you can provide a specific alternative plan (i.e. - they should have drafted this guy who was available instead of that guy...they should have acquired this guy in free agency for this contract...they should have made this trade that was offered but decined, etc...) then it's really irrelevant for anyone to criticize the route they took. Especially considering the success they've had on the court while turning a profit in such a small market. You sit here and post like you could have done it better...well, tell me what you would have done that would have created more success and equal profitability.

[Marcus Bryant]

What a bunch of biggity es.

Real easy to sit at your keyboard and tell someone else what to do with their money, and how much profit they should try and make. The goal of this franchise has always been to remain as compe ive as possible while making money. Unless you can provide a specific alternative plan (i.e. - they should have drafted this guy who was available instead of that guy...they should have acquired this guy in free agency for this contract...they should have made this trade that was offered but decined, etc...) then it's really irrelevant for anyone to criticize the route they took. Especially considering the success they've had on the court while turning a profit in such a small market. You sit here and post like you could have done it better...well, tell me what you would have done that would have created more success and equal profitability.

The funny thing is, "someone else" expects me to give them my money, as well as the taxpayers', when it suits them.

You actually need someone to point out to you the "specific alternative plan"?

[Capt Bringdown]

I still don't understand the dynamics of the Scola trade...didn't we end up signing Bonner for essentially the same money as we would've paid for Scola?

I agree, the 2007 le came at a terrible price. Very strange year. I guess after the Spurs swept the Cavs, we thought we had the NBA all figured out.

Good Lord, is it true we'll see Finley in a Spurs uni again next year? I wish I could say it going to get worse before it gets better, but it appears it's just going to get worse and worse.

[manufor3]

god you fans are spoiled.

[Marcus Bryant]

I still don't understand the dynamics of the Scola trade...didn't we end up signing Bonner for essentially the same money as we would've paid for Scola?

Well, no. Bonner cost $9 mil over 3 years while Scola would have cost the Spurs $20 mil over 3 years (including the cost of Butler's contract, plus lux tax paid and lux tax rebates foregone).

edit: I mean yes and no. Yes, the contracts would have been the same, but the true cost to the Spurs would have been different.

I agree, the 2007 le came at a terrible price. Very strange year. I guess after the Spurs swept the Cavs, we thought we had the NBA all figured out.

Good Lord, is it true we'll see Finley in a Spurs uni again next year? I wish I could say it going to get worse before it gets better, but it appears it's just going to get worse and worse.

Yes, Finley is likely to be a Spur next season while Bruce is likely to not be on the roster anymore.

[Marcus Bryant]

god you fans are spoiled.

Sadly, the front office and ownership are worse.

[SenorSpur]

Yes, Finley is likely to be a Spur next season while Bruce is likely to not be on the roster anymore.

Try to explain that one away. Finley as the Spurs swingman of the present? How is it even possible?

[Manufan909]

I still don't understand the dynamics of the Scola trade...didn't we end up signing Bonner for essentially the same money as we would've paid for Scola?

I agree, the 2007 le came at a terrible price. Very strange year. I guess after the Spurs swept the Cavs, we thought we had the NBA all figured out.

Good Lord, is it true we'll see Finley in a Spurs uni again next year? I wish I could say it going to get worse before it gets better, but it appears it's just going to get worse and worse.

Hopefully he'll be worn out by all the ing minutes he played this season, and retire. Otherwise, yes. Hope Gist and Hairston can show Pop how ing re ed it would be to start Fin in the summer league/preseason/early season.

[Marcus Bryant]

Try to explain that one away. Finley as the Spurs swingman of the present? How is it even possible?

He's got a player option for next season.

The Spurs will pay Bruce $2 mil to go away instead of $4 mil to play next season.

[spurs_50_21]

I agree that they should have acquired an athletic SF..

everything else is irrelevant though..

the backup PG position was supposed to be fixed with Hill..and we were supposed to have Mahinmi playing this season..

nevertheless, after 2 straight years without a le, I would expect some changes this off-season..Bowen, Udoka, Vaughn, and Oberto are probably gone according to their contracts..

this is going to be a very important off-season..

no one wants to come,the only way spurs can get star players is thru draft or developing them.we all can not be boston and buy a championship,or get a gift in one of the worst trades ever like lakers.

[I Love Me Some Me]

The funny thing is, "someone else" expects me to give them my money, as well as the taxpayers', when it suits them.

You actually need someone to point out to you the "specific alternative plan"?

You're under no obligation to give them money...they have an obligation to their ownership to turn a profit.

And I do need someone to point out specific alternatives. All I've read so far is a bunch of no-nothing blowhards complain about the way things were done, with nothing to offer in terms of how it should have been. If you know of a better way, share it with us.