Well, I'm going to have to choose door number one because of the Eff rating and the below fifty percent field goal percentage.
Do I win a prize ?
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You guys couldn't handle KG and Kendrick Perkins. No way that team beats a prime Shaq.
Well, I'm going to have to choose door number one because of the Eff rating and the below fifty percent field goal percentage.
Do I win a prize ?
![]()
Yeah, KG + Perkins < prime Shaq by a lot !
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From that list:
1.MJ
2.Bird
3.Johnson
4.Hakeem
5.Jabbar
6.Russel
7.Duncan
8.Chamberlin
9.Robertson
10.West
Big, serious question: Is Pau Gasol going to actually hedge and not just let whoever wants to waltz into the paint ?
That's why you guys lost last year, imo.
And you better not make that mistake with LeBron James or you will not win.
Bynum won't just let anybody into the paint (I don't think he will), but Gasol did last year and I don't know that he won't be soft this year too .
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Most of the the arguments used against Tim Duncan are complete fallacies.
Some of them may hold water, but if they are used against other great players, will leave you in a position where you will not be able to find 10 guys ahead of him.
For example, the claim that Duncan played in an era of weak forwards. Patently false. The PF position has never been stronger in the NBA than in the recent decade with the likes of Duncan, Garnett, Webber, Rasheed, Dirk, Amare, Gasol, McDyess, Jermaine (healthy), Bosh, Brand, Boozer, Marion and several others I'm probably omitting. What's common to people in the list above is every single one of them made at least one All-NBA team.
When Barkley and Malone played, the quality at PF was just the opposite. Aside from the two of them, few PFs were noteworthy. When these two started playing in the 80s, most of the forward spots in All-NBA teams would go to SFs rather than PFs. SFs and F/Gs ruled the roost then with Erving, Bird, English, King, Nique, Worthy, Dantley, and later Pippen and Grant Hill, who were virtual locks for All-NBA and All-star berths in their respective primes. Some of the All-NBA teams either had 2 SFs (Bird/Nique, Bird/King) or 2 centers (Sampson/Kareem) or even 3 guards in the 2nd/3rd teams (Mullin/KJ/Stockton or Mullin/Drexler/Dumars).
Compare this to the modern era, when we have 3 PFs making the goddamn first team in 06-07 (Timmy, Dirk, Amare), 3 PFs making the 2nd team in 01-02 (KG, Webber, Dirk) and 07-08 (Timmy, Dirk, Amare). Also since TD came into the league, 8 All-NBA first teams out of a total of 11 feature 2 PFs and 0 SFs. That tells you a lot about the strength at the PF position.
So who did Barkley and Malone go up against? An aging McHale, Chambers, mings, Coleman, Detlef Schrempf, Kemp, Rodman, Juwan Howard, Anthony Mason, Vin Baker etc. The PFs of the modern era would eat these guys alive. Drafted in 1985, Karl Malone got to the 1st team only in 88-89. Drafted in 1984, Barkley made it to his first 1st team only in 87-88. Compare these to Duncan, who made it to the first team as a rookie in 97-98.
Barkley and Malone played mediocre defense. Duncan as a PF is one of the premier shot blockers in the NBA, and has been for the last dozen years. The Spurs' system revolves around him protecting the rim. Also, Malone was a jump shooter and screen/roll finisher while Barkley was a jump shooter who also drove on occasion. Duncan is the only low post offensive player out of the three. In the post-Jordan era, the low-post big man who also blocks shots has been instrumental in winning 8 out of 10 les. I don't know about you guys, but I'd take that over a jump shooter who can't intimidate at the rim any day.
The books don't lie. Duncan is the only player in NBA history to receive All-NBA and All-Defensive honors in his first eleven seasons.
With 4 les, 3 Finals MVPs, 2 MVPs, 11 All-NBA selections (9x First team), 11 All-Defense selections (8x First team), 11 All-Star game selections (10x starter), Duncan is the most complete player of the post-Jordan era and the best Forward ever.
And it isn't even ing close! You'll have to add up Barkley and Malone's achievements to top what Duncan has accomplished, either one of them pales in comparison. Even if Malone hadn't choked and had won a le he'd be behind Duncan career-wise, but the shriveled up in the clutch every single time! Even if Barkley had made it to a couple of All-Defensive First teams he wouldn't be in Duncan's class, but the dude never even made it to the second team once!
These guys aren't in the same sentence as Duncan. Bird or Dr.J would be a more interesting, but ultimately futile, argument. But these 2 underachievers don't hold a candle to Timmy.
Great post !
Lot of things to think about in there.
Bird obviously isn't in the same class, defensively, as Duncan.
Barkley and Dr. J are more clearly not as good as Timmy in my book.
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1. Michael Jordan
2. Magic Johnson
3. Dr. J
4. Bill Russel
5. Larry Bird
6. Kareem Abdul-Jabar
7. Wilt Chamberlin
8. Oscar Robertson
9. Hakeem Olajuwon
10. Tim Duncan
11. Shaq
12. Jerry West
13. Pistol Pete
14. Clyde Drexler
15. Kobe Bryant
16. Elgin Baylor
17. Karl Malone
18. Charles Barkley
19. Moses Malone
20. David Robinson
My Top 5 Starting Team....
C-Wilt Chamberlin
PF- Bill Russel
SF- Larry Bird
SG- Michael Jordan
PG-Magic Johnson
1. Michael Jordan
2. Magic Johnson
3. Larry Bird
4. Oscar Robertson
5. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
6. Bill Russell
7. Jerry West
8. Tim Duncan
9. Hakeem Olajuwon
10. Wilt Chamberlain
Russel, Chamberlain, and Kareem are in reality 1-3 in no particular order over Jordan - size matters.
If we're talking about big men, Duncan has to be in the top 5.
All time? Top 15
I think Duncan is definitely top 10. Of course it's always hard to compare achievements across eras, but when I see Lars putting Rodman and Duncan in the same sentence, sorry but let me laugh. Duncan is a legend, he's the center/forward that EVERYBODY looks up to since he was drafted - and yes, even Shaq.
I like all this talk but let's say your start a new franchise and you can pick ANY player in the last 10 years. Who are you going to pick? Kobe? Shaq? No. You are going to pick either Duncan or LBJ. Enough said.
What an intelligent post.
I'm quite surprised to see Sir Charles so high in most of your lists guys, for me he is barely in the top 20.
my list
1.MJ
2.Kareem
3.Magic
4.Russell
5.Bird
6.Hakeem
7.Duncan
8.Shaq
9.Wilt
10.Robertson/West
I don't like to rank with numbers.
Power Forwards: Tim Duncan, Karl Malone, and Kevin McHale in that order.
Lakers999, did you actually watch those guys from your list play?
Just wondering if the basis for your list was formed from observation or stat sheets.
Most people have Bird a little high on that list IMO - he was not better than Duncan. Great, for sure - an all time great, but not better than Duncan.
Way better than Duncan. The only ones who would take Duncan over Bird are extreme spurs homers.
who doesn't is a better question...![]()
Top 5. Easily. Count what decade he did his damage in, and compare it to others of the past. Level of compe ion and population of talent puts Tim in the top 5 in my books, easily.
Duncan is in my top 5
Jordan
Kareem
Magic
Duncan
Bird
Maybe top 10, definitely top 15.
Ofcourse you guys do, you're Spurs fans. aka the biggest ing homers (and dumbasses) in the NBA.
Malone > Duncan.
/thread
1. Jordan
2. Jabber
3. Duncan
4. Magic
5. Russell
6. Bird
7. Cousy
8. Shaq
9. Chamberlain
10. Mailman, Havlicek, and Pet
Too bad Duncan didn't have the opportunity to play against small nonathletic white guys who couldn't even cut it as Xerox Accountants in today's world.
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