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  1. #101
    俺はまんこが大好きなんだよ baseline bum's Avatar
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    i dunno who would win... since the zone defense was allowed in 2003 the Kobe and Shaq tandem needed to be adjusted to more players who could hit the outside shot....that was our biggest problem in 04... kobe was double teamed Shaq was guarded well by ben and rasheed wallace and no one could hit the outside shot
    You guys couldn't handle KG and Kendrick Perkins. No way that team beats a prime Shaq.

  2. #102
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    Let's play a game of which one doesn't belong: EDIT: Well, looking past the whole ring thing too

    Malone's 98 Playoffs:
    GAMES: 20
    PPG: 26.3
    FG%: 47.1
    3FG%: 0.0
    FT%: 78.8
    RPG: 10.9
    APG: 3.4
    SPG: 1.1
    BPG: 1.0
    TOPG: 3.0
    EFF: 26.8


    O'Neal's 00 Playoffs:
    GAMES: 23
    PPG: 30.7
    FG%: 56.6
    3FG%: nan
    FT%: 45.6
    RPG: 15.4
    APG: 3.1
    SPG: 0.6
    BPG: 2.4
    TOPG: 2.4
    EFF: 33.3

    Olajuwon's 95 Playoffs:
    GAMES: 22
    PPG: 33.0
    FG%: 53.1
    3FG%: 50.0
    FT%: 68.1
    RPG: 10.3
    APG: 4.5
    SPG: 1.2
    BPG: 2.8
    TOPG: 3.3
    EFF: 33.8

    Duncan's 03 Playoffs:
    GAMES: 24
    PPG: 24.7
    FG%: 52.9
    3FG%: 0.0
    FT%: 67.7
    RPG: 15.4
    APG: 5.3
    SPG: 0.6
    BPG: 3.3
    TOPG: 3.2
    EFF: 34.9

    Jordan's 91 Playoffs:
    GAMES: 17
    PPG: 31.1
    FG%: 52.4
    3FG%: 38.5
    FT%: 84.5
    RPG: 6.4
    APG: 8.4
    SPG: 2.4
    BPG: 1.4
    TOPG: 2.5
    EFF: 35.1
    Well, I'm going to have to choose door number one because of the Eff rating and the below fifty percent field goal percentage.

    Do I win a prize ?




  3. #103
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    You guys couldn't handle KG and Kendrick Perkins. No way that team beats a prime Shaq.
    Yeah, KG + Perkins < prime Shaq by a lot !


  4. #104
    HTTR Ditty's Avatar
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    From that list:

    1.MJ
    2.Bird
    3.Johnson
    4.Hakeem
    5.Jabbar
    6.Russel
    7.Duncan
    8.Chamberlin
    9.Robertson
    10.West

  5. #105
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    i dunno who would win... since the zone defense was allowed in 2003 the Kobe and Shaq tandem needed to be adjusted to more players who could hit the outside shot....that was our biggest problem in 04... kobe was double teamed Shaq was guarded well by ben and rasheed wallace and no one could hit the outside shot
    Big, serious question: Is Pau Gasol going to actually hedge and not just let whoever wants to waltz into the paint ?

    That's why you guys lost last year, imo.

    And you better not make that mistake with LeBron James or you will not win.

    Bynum won't just let anybody into the paint (I don't think he will), but Gasol did last year and I don't know that he won't be soft this year too .

  6. #106
    Real Warrior Warlord23's Avatar
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    Most of the the arguments used against Tim Duncan are complete fallacies.

    Some of them may hold water, but if they are used against other great players, will leave you in a position where you will not be able to find 10 guys ahead of him.

    For example, the claim that Duncan played in an era of weak forwards. Patently false. The PF position has never been stronger in the NBA than in the recent decade with the likes of Duncan, Garnett, Webber, Rasheed, Dirk, Amare, Gasol, McDyess, Jermaine (healthy), Bosh, Brand, Boozer, Marion and several others I'm probably omitting. What's common to people in the list above is every single one of them made at least one All-NBA team.

    When Barkley and Malone played, the quality at PF was just the opposite. Aside from the two of them, few PFs were noteworthy. When these two started playing in the 80s, most of the forward spots in All-NBA teams would go to SFs rather than PFs. SFs and F/Gs ruled the roost then with Erving, Bird, English, King, Nique, Worthy, Dantley, and later Pippen and Grant Hill, who were virtual locks for All-NBA and All-star berths in their respective primes. Some of the All-NBA teams either had 2 SFs (Bird/Nique, Bird/King) or 2 centers (Sampson/Kareem) or even 3 guards in the 2nd/3rd teams (Mullin/KJ/Stockton or Mullin/Drexler/Dumars).

    Compare this to the modern era, when we have 3 PFs making the goddamn first team in 06-07 (Timmy, Dirk, Amare), 3 PFs making the 2nd team in 01-02 (KG, Webber, Dirk) and 07-08 (Timmy, Dirk, Amare). Also since TD came into the league, 8 All-NBA first teams out of a total of 11 feature 2 PFs and 0 SFs. That tells you a lot about the strength at the PF position.

    So who did Barkley and Malone go up against? An aging McHale, Chambers, mings, Coleman, Detlef Schrempf, Kemp, Rodman, Juwan Howard, Anthony Mason, Vin Baker etc. The PFs of the modern era would eat these guys alive. Drafted in 1985, Karl Malone got to the 1st team only in 88-89. Drafted in 1984, Barkley made it to his first 1st team only in 87-88. Compare these to Duncan, who made it to the first team as a rookie in 97-98.

    Barkley and Malone played mediocre defense. Duncan as a PF is one of the premier shot blockers in the NBA, and has been for the last dozen years. The Spurs' system revolves around him protecting the rim. Also, Malone was a jump shooter and screen/roll finisher while Barkley was a jump shooter who also drove on occasion. Duncan is the only low post offensive player out of the three. In the post-Jordan era, the low-post big man who also blocks shots has been instrumental in winning 8 out of 10 les. I don't know about you guys, but I'd take that over a jump shooter who can't intimidate at the rim any day.

    The books don't lie. Duncan is the only player in NBA history to receive All-NBA and All-Defensive honors in his first eleven seasons.

    With 4 les, 3 Finals MVPs, 2 MVPs, 11 All-NBA selections (9x First team), 11 All-Defense selections (8x First team), 11 All-Star game selections (10x starter), Duncan is the most complete player of the post-Jordan era and the best Forward ever.

    And it isn't even ing close! You'll have to add up Barkley and Malone's achievements to top what Duncan has accomplished, either one of them pales in comparison. Even if Malone hadn't choked and had won a le he'd be behind Duncan career-wise, but the shriveled up in the clutch every single time! Even if Barkley had made it to a couple of All-Defensive First teams he wouldn't be in Duncan's class, but the dude never even made it to the second team once!

    These guys aren't in the same sentence as Duncan. Bird or Dr.J would be a more interesting, but ultimately futile, argument. But these 2 underachievers don't hold a candle to Timmy.

  7. #107
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    Most of the the arguments used against Tim Duncan are complete fallacies.

    Some of them may hold water, but if they are used against other great players, will leave you in a position where you will not be able to find 10 guys ahead of him.

    For example, the claim that Duncan played in an era of weak forwards. Patently false. The PF position has never been stronger in the NBA than in the recent decade with the likes of Duncan, Garnett, Webber, Rasheed, Dirk, Amare, Gasol, McDyess, Jermaine (healthy), Bosh, Brand, Boozer, Marion and several others I'm probably omitting. What's common to people in the list above is every single one of them made at least one All-NBA team.

    When Barkley and Malone played, the quality at PF was just the opposite. Aside from the two of them, few PFs were noteworthy. When these two started playing in the 80s, most of the forward spots in All-NBA teams would go to SFs rather than PFs. SFs and F/Gs ruled the roost then with Erving, Bird, English, King, Nique, Worthy, Dantley, and later Pippen and Grant Hill, who were virtual locks for All-NBA and All-star berths in their respective primes. Some of the All-NBA teams either had 2 SFs (Bird/Nique, Bird/King) or 2 centers (Sampson/Kareem) or even 3 guards in the 2nd/3rd teams (Mullin/KJ/Stockton or Mullin/Drexler/Dumars).

    Compare this to the modern era, when we have 3 PFs making the goddamn first team in 06-07 (Timmy, Dirk, Amare), 3 PFs making the 2nd team in 01-02 (KG, Webber, Dirk) and 07-08 (Timmy, Dirk, Amare). Also since TD came into the league, 8 All-NBA first teams out of a total of 11 feature 2 PFs and 0 SFs. That tells you a lot about the strength at the PF position.

    So who did Barkley and Malone go up against? An aging McHale, Chambers, mings, Coleman, Detlef Schrempf, Kemp, Rodman, Juwan Howard, Anthony Mason, Vin Baker etc. The PFs of the modern era would eat these guys alive. Drafted in 1985, Karl Malone got to the 1st team only in 88-89. Drafted in 1984, Barkley made it to his first 1st team only in 87-88. Compare these to Duncan, who made it to the first team as a rookie in 97-98.

    Barkley and Malone played mediocre defense. Duncan as a PF is one of the premier shot blockers in the NBA, and has been for the last dozen years. The Spurs' system revolves around him protecting the rim. Also, Malone was a jump shooter and screen/roll finisher while Barkley was a jump shooter who also drove on occasion. Duncan is the only low post offensive player out of the three. In the post-Jordan era, the low-post big man who also blocks shots has been instrumental in winning 8 out of 10 les. I don't know about you guys, but I'd take that over a jump shooter who can't intimidate at the rim any day.

    The books don't lie. Duncan is the only player in NBA history to receive All-NBA and All-Defensive honors in his first eleven seasons.

    With 4 les, 3 Finals MVPs, 2 MVPs, 11 All-NBA selections (9x First team), 11 All-Defense selections (8x First team), 11 All-Star game selections (10x starter), Duncan is the most complete player of the post-Jordan era and the best Forward ever.

    And it isn't even ing close! You'll have to add up Barkley and Malone's achievements to top what Duncan has accomplished, either one of them pales in comparison. Even if Malone hadn't choked and had won a le he'd be behind Duncan career-wise, but the shriveled up in the clutch every single time! Even if Barkley had made it to a couple of All-Defensive First teams he wouldn't be in Duncan's class, but the dude never even made it to the second team once!

    These guys aren't in the same sentence as Duncan. Bird or Dr.J would be a more interesting, but ultimately futile, argument. But these 2 underachievers don't hold a candle to Timmy.
    Great post !

    Lot of things to think about in there.

    Bird obviously isn't in the same class, defensively, as Duncan.

    Barkley and Dr. J are more clearly not as good as Timmy in my book.



  8. #108
    Believe. TheSpursFNRule's Avatar
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    1. Michael Jordan
    2. Magic Johnson
    3. Dr. J
    4. Bill Russel
    5. Larry Bird
    6. Kareem Abdul-Jabar
    7. Wilt Chamberlin
    8. Oscar Robertson
    9. Hakeem Olajuwon
    10. Tim Duncan
    11. Shaq
    12. Jerry West
    13. Pistol Pete
    14. Clyde Drexler
    15. Kobe Bryant
    16. Elgin Baylor
    17. Karl Malone
    18. Charles Barkley
    19. Moses Malone
    20. David Robinson

    My Top 5 Starting Team....

    C-Wilt Chamberlin
    PF- Bill Russel
    SF- Larry Bird
    SG- Michael Jordan
    PG-Magic Johnson

  9. #109
    The Good Doctor Rummpd's Avatar
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    1. Michael Jordan
    2. Magic Johnson
    3. Larry Bird
    4. Oscar Robertson
    5. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
    6. Bill Russell
    7. Jerry West
    8. Tim Duncan
    9. Hakeem Olajuwon
    10. Wilt Chamberlain


    Russel, Chamberlain, and Kareem are in reality 1-3 in no particular order over Jordan - size matters.

  10. #110
    Rubber Dinghy Rapids Bro Muser's Avatar
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    If we're talking about big men, Duncan has to be in the top 5.

    All time? Top 15

  11. #111
    The 6th is coming... will_spurs's Avatar
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    I think Duncan is definitely top 10. Of course it's always hard to compare achievements across eras, but when I see Lars putting Rodman and Duncan in the same sentence, sorry but let me laugh. Duncan is a legend, he's the center/forward that EVERYBODY looks up to since he was drafted - and yes, even Shaq.

    I like all this talk but let's say your start a new franchise and you can pick ANY player in the last 10 years. Who are you going to pick? Kobe? Shaq? No. You are going to pick either Duncan or LBJ. Enough said.

  12. #112
    Unstoppable TDomination's Avatar
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    It is very hard to pick from Shaq, Duncan and Olajuwon as they all have very similar credentials.

    Duncan is at the point in his career where some fans are forgetting how good he was in his 2003 form. The Duncan of today is still an elite player, but no where near the same as then. Even though his stats are still good, he is not being double teamed as much as the past. That means that he is not the dominant offensive force he once was, when no one could defend him man to man.

    As far as comparisons go, there are several factors. One is -- you HAVE to distinguish between "peak" and "career" value when comparing players. The first is the peak level, or the best 2-3 year period when a player was in his prime. The 2nd is the ulative, or career consistent value. For example, at his best Shaq was a more dominant player than Duncan ever was (though not by much.) However, over the course of his career Duncan has been a more consistent performer, and helped his team more.

    The 2nd factor is that it is impossible to compare players of different eras. It is better to create "teams of the decade" for the 60's, 70's, 80's etc. No one really knows if the players of the past were better, worse or different than today's. The game is always changing and in different eras it takes different skill sets to succeed.

    Finally, Moses Malone is a player who is often overlooked but he did it all in his career.
    What an intelligent post.

  13. #113
    Chunky Brazil's Avatar
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    I'm quite surprised to see Sir Charles so high in most of your lists guys, for me he is barely in the top 20.

  14. #114
    I don't have limits sonic21's Avatar
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    my list

    1.MJ
    2.Kareem
    3.Magic
    4.Russell
    5.Bird
    6.Hakeem
    7.Duncan
    8.Shaq
    9.Wilt
    10.Robertson/West

  15. #115
    Each Day Offers Potential Darrin's Avatar
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    I post this in honor of Tim Duncan passing David Robinson in rebounds and David's well deserved entry into the Hall of Fame !

    1. Michael Jordan
    2. Magic Johnson
    3. Larry Bird
    4. Oscar Robertson
    5. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
    6. Bill Russell
    7. Jerry West
    8. Tim Duncan
    9. Hakeem Olajuwon
    10. Wilt Chamberlain

    My starting five: Magic Johnson at point guard, Michael Jordan at shooting guard, Larry Bird at small forward, Tim Duncan at power forward, Kareem Abdul Jabbar at center.

    This would be a great defensive team as well as an unstoppable offensive force !

    http://www.nba.com/history/players/50greatest.html

    I expect perhaps some gripes about Hakeem, but his unusual athleticism and unusual skill set means more to me than simply comparing numbers.

    Numbers reflect the time, the system one played in and with, one's coach, the teammates that one had,...

    My apologies if some don't care for the placement of this thread.

    However, the point of this top 10 is that it places Tim Duncan as one of the top ten basketball players of all time.

    Would you place Tim Duncan as one of the top 10 basketball players of all time?

    What's your top 10 of all time ?




    Go Spurs !

    Go Spurstalk !

    to our win !
    I don't like to rank with numbers.

    Power Forwards: Tim Duncan, Karl Malone, and Kevin McHale in that order.

  16. #116
    Chopper Ed Helicopter Jones's Avatar
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    Lakers999, did you actually watch those guys from your list play?

    Just wondering if the basis for your list was formed from observation or stat sheets.

  17. #117
    Bruce Leroy 4down's Avatar
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    Most people have Bird a little high on that list IMO - he was not better than Duncan. Great, for sure - an all time great, but not better than Duncan.

  18. #118
    Based dirk4mvp's Avatar
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    Most people have Bird a little high on that list IMO - he was not better than Duncan. Great, for sure - an all time great, but not better than Duncan.
    Way better than Duncan. The only ones who would take Duncan over Bird are extreme spurs homers.

  19. #119
    Spur Forever urunobili's Avatar
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    who doesn't is a better question...

  20. #120
    Since 1992 Brutalis's Avatar
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    Top 5. Easily. Count what decade he did his damage in, and compare it to others of the past. Level of compe ion and population of talent puts Tim in the top 5 in my books, easily.

  21. #121
    we rang stretch's Avatar
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    Duncan is in my top 5

    Jordan
    Kareem
    Magic
    Duncan
    Bird

  22. #122
    Tim to Tony to Manu! bdictjames's Avatar
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    Maybe top 10, definitely top 15.

  23. #123
    Believe.
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    Ofcourse you guys do, you're Spurs fans. aka the biggest ing homers (and dumbasses) in the NBA.

    Malone > Duncan.

    /thread

  24. #124
    Student of Liberty Galileo's Avatar
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    1. Jordan
    2. Jabber
    3. Duncan
    4. Magic
    5. Russell
    6. Bird
    7. Cousy
    8. Shaq
    9. Chamberlain
    10. Mailman, Havlicek, and Pet

  25. #125
    Believe. FaithInOne's Avatar
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    Too bad Duncan didn't have the opportunity to play against small nonathletic white guys who couldn't even cut it as Xerox Accountants in today's world.

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