Atheism on the rise in every single US state.

[Blake]

lol learn how to interpert a statement. the free gift is through jesus so you don't get the free gift if you don't go through jesus.

lol bull

lol it's not a free gift any more than sitting 3 hours through a time share presentation gets you a free gift card to Chilis.

lol you still deny you are a moron?

lol you are definitely a moron.

[angel_luv]

the point was that you compared God to Pop drawing up a perfect plan for Tim and Tony to run.

my point is that your analogy fails.





The story of sodom and gomorrah is besides the point.

It also a law of the old testament and is therefore irrelevant.

The NIV states that Paul is talking about sexuality which is something that is not clear in original text. It's a broad assumption.

It was a parable I told using Pop.

He who has ears let him hear.

I enjoy conversing with you Blake. The only thing you can rightly blame me for is trying to lengthen our dialogue.

I would feel sorry if you weren't such a genuinely good conversationalist.

[MiamiHeat]

What I don't get is why non-believers think those of us who do have faith are "brain washed" or "believe in story tales" or act like we are somehow stupid simply because we choose to believe. I never push my religion on others and I can't stand it when non-believers push their scientific facts on me. If you don't believe fine.

Because Satan works in the heart of the non-believers. Satan wants to deceive the believers to lead them astray. That is his goal, to lead you away from God. The non-believers read their books and their fancy science and arrogantly think they know more than God?

They can't even control their own destinies, yet the question the Almighty, the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last.

[angel_luv]

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Amen.

This is correct.

Jesus Christ is the new covenant between the Father and the world. He came to this earth to sacrifice himself and pay for all of our sins in blood.

All you have to do is ask for his forgiveness and you shall be forgiven. You shall be saved.

Amen.

You are a Christian, Miami Heat?

[Blake]

It was a parable I told using Pop.

Got it. Sorry it failed for you.

He who has ears let him hear.

I'm listening.

I enjoy conversing with you Blake. The only thing you can rightly blame me for is trying to lengthen our dialogue.

you also don't like to answer hypotheticals and have admitted as much in other threads, so I guess that's 2 things.

I would feel sorry if you weren't such a genuinely good conversationalist.

I would feel sorry for me too, if I thought I was going to be not just kicked out of Heaven, but tormented and burned for the rest of eternity.

Why does God feel the need for the extra torture?

Why did God create E20 to be a moron?

[E20]

lol it's not a free gift any more than sitting 3 hours through a time share presentation gets you a free gift card to Chilis.

lol you still deny you are a moron?

lol you are definitely a moron.

lol that's the catch doesn't mean it's still not free.

[Blake]

lol that's the catch doesn't mean it's still not free.

lol you have to put forth effort to get the gift so yes, it means it's not really a free gift

lol you still deny you are a moron?

[angel_luv]

Got it. Sorry it failed for you.



I'm listening.



you also don't like to answer hypotheticals and have admitted as much in other threads, so I guess that's 2 things.

A simple thank you for the compliment would have sufficed.

[E20]

lol you have to put forth effort to get the gift so yes, it means it's not really a free gift

lol you still deny you are a moron?

lol i can't believe i got suckered into this argument, when i knew beforehand getting into heaven wasn't free.

Well on a serious note my main points in this thread were:

Aspects of religon and God's word that don't make sense to humans or are illogical or immoral by humans cannot be attempted to be explained, because we don't know how God thinks or what his motives are or his behavior, because we can't explain something that isn't human and that transcends humans with human reasoning.

[MiamiHeat]

lol i can't believe i got suckered into this argument, when i knew beforehand getting into heaven wasn't free.

It is free.

Jesus Christ only asks that you WANT to be forgiven.

When Denny's gives away free breakfasts, don't you have to drive to Denny's and say "I want one of your free breakfasts" ? It's free, isn't it? You don't say "It's not free because I have to ask for it"

All you have to do is ask Jesus Christ to enter into your heart, and you shall be saved. It's free. The price for salvation was paid already when Jesus died on the cross.

[Blake]

A simple thank you for the compliment would have sufficed.

I'm not much on giving a thank you out for a backhanded compliment, even if you didn't realize it was backhanded.

[Phenomanul]

and neither will free will.

fail

and neither will free will

You must have short-circuited there... your repiticious cynicism isn't much of a response at all. After all, I'm only voicing my opinion with regards to how I interpret the scriptures on these matters... Is your opinion any more valid???

IMO When in heaven I won't have the free-will to create another universe, a planet or even another sentient being... for I am not endowed with the power to create them... No amount of wishing on my part will ever enpower me with the capability to perform those tasks... likewise, we will not be able to sin for we will not be endowed with the desire to do so... sin will no longer exist... Just because we are endowed with free will does not mean we are capacitated to do things we are unable to do...
Can you outrun the "Jamaican Bolt"??? No...
Can you outplay LeBron James in basketball? No...
Can you outdrive Jeff Gordon? No...
Can you outgolf Tiger Woods? No...
Can you out-violin Joshua Bell? No...
Your free will doesn't capacitate you to do things outside of your experience... If sin no longer exists, it stands to reason that it will no longer exist in your thought process either... Hence, you will never act on anything that isn't pre-meditatively planned...

Besides, even if we still had a bearing on what 'the concept of sin' was... you would have to be crazy to volunteer to be a redux of Lucifer...

I understand who he is. Give me a really good reason why I should want to be with him for eternity.

If you fully understood His nature... you wouldn't need that reason. Your reasoning is dichotic.

I'm still waiting for anyone to tell me why/how heaven's good times will be better than earth's good times.

In Heaven we are promised a life with...
No more suffering
No more tears
No more anger
No more fear
and
Eternal joy

You apparently live the perfect life here on earth. Even without the subjectiveness of your question.... I'm not sure what response would satisfy your lofty standards...

source, scripture that says Heaven will be changed.

otherwise, your assumption is off base.

I was really answering ILMSM who already said that Heaven hasn't changed.

Sin was born out of Lucifer's rebellion... and has yet to be crushed - which is why it still abounds today...

Having said that, I don't know what part of "Sin will be defeated once and for all" you don't understand.

It will be eradicated... vanquished... anihilated...

That is a SIGNIFICANT change....

Jesus having incorporated His humanity into the nature of His Deity will also be a pretty significant change... He has the scars to prove it.

Finally, the most convincing scriptures reveal that GOD will create "a NEW heaven and a NEW earth"....

The promise of such an arrangement is found in both the Old Testament and the New Testament. Isaiah 65:17 says this:

"For behold I create new heavens and a new earth; and the former things shall not be remembered or come to mind."

Revalations 21:1-5 says,
"1) Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2) I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3) And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4) He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away. 5) He who was seated on the throne said, "I am making everything new!"

and

2nd Peter 3:10-13 says,

"10) But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up. 11) Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12) looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat! 13) But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells."

exactly how will you be above the angels in heaven? source, scripture, please.

unless you can prove that Heaven has changed, angels have the capacity and free will to sin while you do not.

Seems to me that angels are higher in the scheme of things.

Unlike humans, fallen angels cannot be redeemed. Once angels rebel against God, they are permanently banned from God's glory and presence... Some fallen angels are currently imprisoned until God's day of judgment (see 1st Peter 3:19-20; 2nd Peter 2:4; Jude 1:6), and some rule the realm of darkness with Satan. They, too, will one day face the wrath of God (Matthew 25:41).

So we may not wield their power or abilities... But seems to me that if GOD offered humans a path of redemption that He didn't extend to the Angels... that we must be pretty important to Him. That's all that should matter to us.

[Blake]

Aspects of religon and God's word that don't make sense to humans or are illogical or immoral by humans cannot be attempted to be explained, because we don't know how God thinks or what his motives are or his behavior, because we can't explain something that isn't human and that transcends humans with human reasoning.

the Bible makes inconsistent attempts at explaining God's motives and behavior.

thanks for playing.

[angel_luv]

I'm not much on giving a thank you out for a backhanded compliment, even if you didn't realize it was backhanded.

I sincerely meant that you are a good conversationalist and I enjoy speaking with you.

[Blake]

Unlike humans, fallen angels cannot be redeemed. Once angels rebel against God, they are permanently banned from God's glory and presence... Some fallen angels are currently imprisoned until God's day of judgment (see 1st Peter 3:19-20; 2nd Peter 2:4; Jude 1:6), and some rule the realm of darkness with Satan. They, too, will one day face the wrath of God (Matthew 25:41).

So we may not wield their power or abilities... But seems to me that if GOD offered humans a path of redemption that He didn't extend to the Angels... that we must be pretty important to Him. That's all that should matter to us.

apparently humans do not have the same free will that angels do.

Thanks for verifying the inconsistency for me.

[Blake]

I sincerely meant that you are a good conversationalist and I enjoy speaking with you.

thank you

[angel_luv]

yw

[Blake]

When Denny's gives away free breakfasts, don't you have to drive to Denny's and say "I want one of your free breakfasts" ? It's free, isn't it? You don't say "It's not free because I have to ask for it"

All you have to do is ask Jesus Christ to enter into your heart, and you shall be saved. It's free. The price for salvation was paid already when Jesus died on the cross.

Did you ask Denny to enter you heart?

[Phenomanul]

apparently humans do not have the same free will that angels do.

Thanks for verifying the inconsistency for me.

In your reluctant skepticism, you wanted me to provide... scratch that... you demanded that I provide biblical scriptures that supported the belief that heaven would be different in the 'future' (particularly after Satan and his deceived followers have been cast into the "lake of fire")...

I provided several references... from both Cananoical testaments no less...

But you ignored them to avoid conceding an argument... is your complex that disturbingly stubborn???

The passages you overlooked reference the judgment that will be handed down to defeat sin... the event that will mark a new era...

SIN will no longer exist when the LORD destroys it.... FREE-WILL will not be tampered with... Most importantly, Satan will no longer be around to deceive anyone... including the angels.

Besides, you need to realize that the heavenly timeline is not congruent with ours... the reference to "a new heaven and a new earth" however, still implies that there will be a significant change... a destruction of the old heaven and the old earth.... and the creation of a new setting.

For all of your demands on the subject, you haven't really substantiated any of your claims with anything other than your opinion... One can grow frustratingly weary having to drudge through such unilateral discussions...

[tlongII]

Did you ask Denny to enter you heart?

Yes, and now I need a bypass!

[MiamiHeat]

You ask Denny's to enter your stomach.

Salvation is a spiritual thing, so you need to ask Jesus to enter your heart.

No difference. It's free.

[LnGrrrR]

did you ask denny to enter you heart?

lmao

[E20]

the Bible makes inconsistent attempts at explaining God's motives and behavior.

thanks for playing.

I would attempt a counter arguement, but it's not worth it lol. I think what you want is for religon/god to be clear cut and straightforward as science is and you're basing your expectations on finding answers in regards to god/religon off that.


Fudge, what I should have said in response to the question "Is it free" is that anybody that knows anything about religon is that the price to pay is to sacrifice this life to follow god's rule and submit your will to him.

[exstatic]

I don't see how anyone alive and sentient between, say, January 2001 and January 2009 can say that Christianity is anything BUT anti-science.

Why that timeframe?

The Christian Taliban reigned in the US and abolished much research that they didn't like.

[Blake]

For all of your demands on the subject, you haven't really substantiated any of your claims with anything other than your opinion... One can grow frustratingly weary having to drudge through such unilateral discussions...

for all of your shouting with nothing to really back it up with, you have further cemented my opinion that free will in heaven is lost.

thank you.