Back up off of Manu

[ducks]

...and then TP settled back down to earth the next game against Cleveland (in SA) and went 3-16 with 6 assists. Spurs 86-Cavs 97. Tony knows he can't win consistently without Timmy and Manu.

yes

any team that wins it all has to have 3 players combinned between 60-75 points

[SA210]

Absolute lock. The Basketball Hall of Fame is not an NBA Hall of Fame. Amateurs, professionals, women and international players are all eligible. Manu's body of work in the NBA, Europe, and with his National Team make him a lock.

Awards

* Italian League All-Star: 1999, 2000, 2001
* Italian League Most Improved Player: 2000, 2001, 2002
* Euroleague Finals Most Valuable Player: 2001
* FIBA Americas Championship Most Valuable Player: 2001
* Italian Cup Most Valuable Player: 2002
* NBA All-Star: 2005
* All-Tournament Team, FIBA World Championship: 2002, 2006
* Ideal Olympics Team: 2004
* Summer Olympic Games Most Valuable Player: 2004
* Olimpia de Oro: 2003, 2004 (shared with Carlos Tévez)
* 50 Greatest Euroleague Contributors: 2008
* NBA Sixth Man of the Year Award: 2008
* All-NBA Third Team: 2008



les

* Italian League Championship: 2001
* Italian Cup: 2001, 2002
* Euroleague: 2001
* Americas Championship: 2001
* NBA Championship: 2003, 2005, 2007
* Summer Olympic Games gold medal: 2004
* Summer Olympic Games bronze medal: 2008

If you look at Euroleague play, Manu is already high on the list (top 35 with no individual ranking given to players).

Manu is a joy to watch and one gets the impression he could play blindfolded and get by for a while just on instincts and his 6th sense on the court. Praising Manu does not take away from other players like Duncan, Parker, or his opponents. Coming from an old-time NBA connoisseur, Manu's flair is unique and his creativity in passing the basketball is in the Bird, Maravich, Magic, and Cousy class.

Put away the hate and enjoy Manu for what he is...and for as long as you can. You are blessed to be able to watch an artisan at work. He's a gift to basketball.

Manu is the heart and fire of this team. He plays with more heart than ANYONE. He stays!

[ducks]

DUNCAN HATES LOSSING
not sure how people can say manu plays with more heart then him
also looking at bowen's face you could tell he was pissed they lost

[TMTTRIO]

Manu's a lock to HOF. As we've said it's the basketball HOF and not the NBA HOF. He's been named as one of the 50 Greatest Contributors in Euroleague History and is included with some of the best including Petrovic, Kukoc, Sabonis, and others. It's weird to see D'Antoni's name under there. No wonder why D'Antoni loves Manu a lot .

http://www.euroleague.net/history

50 GREATEST CONTRIBUTORS LIST
PLAYERS
Fragiskos Alvertis
Sergei Belov
Miki Berkowitz
Dejan Bodiroga
Wayne Brabender
Juan Antonio Corbalan
Kresimir Cosic
Mike D'Antoni
Drazen Dalipagic
Predrag Danilovic
Mirza Delibasic
Vlade Divac
Sasha Djordjevic
Nikos Galis
Manu Ginobili
Saras Jasikevicius
Radivoj Korac
Toni Kukoc
Clifford Luyk
Pierluigi Marzorati
Bob McAdoo
Dino Meneghin
Bob Morse
Aldo Ossola
Theo Papaloukas
Anthony Parker
Drazen Petrovic
Dino Radja
Manolo Raga
Antonello Riva
Emiliano Rodriguez
Arvydas Sabonis
J.A. San Epifanio "Epi"
Walter Szczerbiak
Panagiotis Yiannakis

HEAD COACHES
Pedro Ferrandiz
Pini Gershon
Alexandar Gomelskiy
Dusan Ivkovic
Boza Maljkovic
Ettore Messina
Aca Nikolic
Zeljko Obradovic
Dan Peterson
Lolo Sainz

REFEREES
Artenik Arabadjian
Mikhail Davidov
Lubomir Kotleba
Yvan Mainini
Costas Rigas

[mookie2001]

he showed a lot of heart in 08 vs the lakers, and this year on the bench

[DAF86]

what is a little bit annoying is that it seems that in this thread, either you're a groupie and manu can't do bad, or you're a hater and he's bs.

he's a great great player. but still, he has stamina issues, more than ANY other star of his level in this league. if you think Pop limit him more than tony or tim for pleasure, you're blind. he does that because he thinks manu can't provide 35 mpg of his best bball in a 82 games + PO season. nobody's perfect.

There's a difference between saying that Manu has stamina problems and saying that he's fragile, which is what you do very often. Manu is playing since age 18 (with club and national play) and he just had his first serious injury at age 31 explain me how is that beign fragile?

And about the stamina thing, let me tell you that in Europe and in the National team he would play 35-40 minutes when needed without any problems, of course when that happens he doesn't run like crazy like you see him doing with the Spurs, he paces himself, but he's still very effective.

And let me ask you: do you think Tony has stamina problems too. How many times did we see him gassed out at the end of matches? Maybe he shouldn't be playing more than 30 minutes per game either

[Bukefal]

Hey Bukefal, so you think that a guy that won the NBA championship, the Olympics and the Euroleague (accompanied by MVP awards in two of those 3 tournaments, and coming one vote away of getting the other MVP) is less deserving of the Hall of Fame than three guys that combined have one gold medal in the Olympics to show for? Yeah, your opinion sure makes a lot of sense.

Why don't you give it a rest and realize that maybe on this subject you didn't know as much as you thought?

Let me ask you this: have you even saw Manu play before this season?

Yeah i have seen him play, have you? I do, since i think those three guys are still better than manu ever was and will be. Yes manu maybe has more trophy's, but basketball is a team sport, if you did not know that.

Im giving it a rest, as ive said before, this discussion can go on and on and on. You are a member of the Manu church, im not, you have your opinion, i have mine. So i agree, ill let it rest. We'll just see, thats all we can.

[DAF86]

Yeah i have seen him play, have you? I do, since i think those three guys are still better than manu ever was and will be. Yes manu maybe has more trophy's, but basketball is a team sport, if you did not know that.

Im giving it a rest, as ive said before, this discussion can go on and on and on. You are a member of the Manu church, im not, you have your opinion, i have mine. So i agree, ill let it rest. We'll just see, thats all we can.

First of all I'm an atheist so I'm not part of any Church.

Second I can respect your "I think those three guys are still better than manu ever was and will be" opinion, but I can't understand how can you say that when I'm pretty sure you haven't seen Dalipagic nor Meneghin play. I was born in 1986, just like you, and I didn't have the oportunity to see those guys play (and bealive me I'm a basketball junkie, I watch it since I was 4 years old, NBA and FIBA) so I find very difficult to bealive that you were able to see enough of them to so firmly declare: "I think those three guys are still better than manu ever was and will be".

And third you can have all the opinions you want but there are facts that can't be refuted, Manu's place in the HoF is one of them.

[BadOne]

Absolute lock. The Basketball Hall of Fame is not an NBA Hall of Fame. Amateurs, professionals, women and international players are all eligible. Manu's body of work in the NBA, Europe, and with his National Team make him a lock.

Awards

* Italian League All-Star: 1999, 2000, 2001
* Italian League Most Improved Player: 2000, 2001, 2002
* Euroleague Finals Most Valuable Player: 2001
* FIBA Americas Championship Most Valuable Player: 2001
* Italian Cup Most Valuable Player: 2002
* NBA All-Star: 2005
* All-Tournament Team, FIBA World Championship: 2002, 2006
* Ideal Olympics Team: 2004
* Summer Olympic Games Most Valuable Player: 2004
* Olimpia de Oro: 2003, 2004 (shared with Carlos Tévez)
* 50 Greatest Euroleague Contributors: 2008
* NBA Sixth Man of the Year Award: 2008
* All-NBA Third Team: 2008



les

* Italian League Championship: 2001
* Italian Cup: 2001, 2002
* Euroleague: 2001
* Americas Championship: 2001
* NBA Championship: 2003, 2005, 2007
* Summer Olympic Games gold medal: 2004
* Summer Olympic Games bronze medal: 2008

Absolutely.

If Vitale, who never even played either college or professional basketball was inducted just becasue he says "baybee!", not Manu not getting in would be a beastly travesty. I take nothing away from y V's high school and coaching careers, he sucked as an NBA coach. Without his popular phrase, he wouldn't be in the HOF. In my opinion, he still doesn't belong.

[urunobili]

Yeah i have seen him play, have you? I do, since i think those three guys are still better than manu ever was and will be. Yes manu maybe has more trophy's, but basketball is a team sport, if you did not know that.

Im giving it a rest, as ive said before, this discussion can go on and on and on. You are a member of the Manu church, im not, you have your opinion, i have mine. So i agree, ill let it rest. We'll just see, thats all we can.

[roycrikside]

the way the spurs are built is the big three have to have healthy

spurs without tp with mason running point
duncan an manu healthy
would be 1-82

Or...

32-12 = .727 with Manu
47-25 = .652 with Tony
49-26 = .653 with Tim
4-1 = .800 Just Tony
5-2 = .714 Just Tim
1-0 = 1.000 Just Tim and Manu
1-0 = 1.000 Just Tony and Manu
13-12 = .520 Just Tim and Tony
30-12 = .714 Big Three
0-1 = .000 None

5-2 = .714 Without Tim
7-3 = .700 Without Tony
22-16 = .579 Without Manu

Give it up Ducks. The Spurs have usually fared pretty well without Tony and not nearly so well without Manu. That doesn't mean I don't think Tony matters or that I don't want him on the team, but his impact and importance is not nearly as high as some people think. Without Manu though, the team is very mediocre and I think the playoffs, where they went 1-4 to a team that went 1-4 in the next round, showed it.

[symple19]

Absolutely.

If Vitale, who never even played either college or professional basketball was inducted just becasue he says "baybee!", not Manu not getting in would be a beastly travesty. I take nothing away from y V's high school and coaching careers, he sucked as an NBA coach. Without his popular phrase, he wouldn't be in the HOF. In my opinion, he still doesn't belong.

ie V is in the Hall mostly as an ambassador of the game, of which there is no equal(my opinion). His charity work is also a part of that, but he is a polarizing figure to be sure. To compare him to Manu is ridiculous, seeing as they put journalists in there as well.

As for Manu being around next year, I say fine. There won't be any way to get value for him, and I agree you can sign him after next year for a reduced price. Money will then be left over to get another guy (2 or 3) who can START and produce, both defensively and going to the basket.

"let's get back to playing smothering,soul crushing defense"

[SA210]

DUNCAN HATES LOSSING
not sure how people can say manu plays with more heart then him
also looking at bowen's face you could tell he was pissed they lost

You're not sure how? That's why you never make sense. Cuz you don't know much.

[DAF86]

Or...

32-12 = .727 with Manu
47-25 = .652 with Tony
49-26 = .653 with Tim
4-1 = .800 Just Tony
5-2 = .714 Just Tim
1-0 = 1.000 Just Tim and Manu
1-0 = 1.000 Just Tony and Manu
13-12 = .520 Just Tim and Tony
30-12 = .714 Big Three
0-1 = .000 None

5-2 = .714 Without Tim
7-3 = .700 Without Tony
22-16 = .579 Without Manu

Give it up Ducks. The Spurs have usually fared pretty well without Tony and not nearly so well without Manu. That doesn't mean I don't think Tony matters or that I don't want him on the team, but his impact and importance is not nearly as high as some people think. Without Manu though, the team is very mediocre and I think the playoffs, where they went 1-4 to a team that went 1-4 in the next round, showed it.

Meh, that could easily be coincidence. I'm pretty sure that if Tony would have missed more games our record without him would be worst. The only certain thing is this team needs all those three guy playing toghether and at their level to have a chance, that's why is pretty stupid to ask the FO to trade Manu for crappy players like J.R Smith, Kaman, etc.

P/S: If you go by those numbers then you have to say that Manu and Tony are more important than Duncan, and that's just ridiculous.

[Solid D]

5-2 = .714 Without Tim
7-3 = .700 Without Tony
22-16 = .579 Without Manu

For those of you who didn't like math in school, the lower the number after the dot, the worse the team did in the column with the W.

[Kori Ellis]

Showing stats of the team can (can't) do without Manu is probably not really a good argument in this case. No one (except ducks) is saying the team is better with Tony+Tim than Manu+Tony+Tim. People are saying that a team with Another Player+Tony+Tim might be better than a team Manu+Tony+Tim because of Manu's health.

Personally, I wouldn't trade Manu. I think he brings too much to the table, and I'll take 60 games of Manu over 82 games of most other players. Plus, right now, you aren't going to get much for him until people can see his recovery. But it's not horrible for someone to say that the team might be better with someone else in Manu's place.

All that being said, I expect Manu and his bionic ankles to play 75+ games + playoffs in 2009-10.

[DAF86]

For those of you who didn't like math in school, the lower the number after the dot, the worse the team did in the column with the W.

Yeah, so? Do you really bealive that we are a better team with Tim not playing than with Tony or Manu not playing?

[ElNono]

All that being said, I expect Manu and his bionic ankles to play 75+ games + playoffs in 2009-10.

[Solid D]

Actually, I really believe that the thread is addressed to those few people who continue to dis Manu for getting injured 2 seasons in a row and keeping the Spurs from winning a championship...tacking on it being Manu's foul fault in 2006 that kept them from winning a ring 3 out 4 years. They want to trade him for being "selfish" playing in the summer and getting hurt. The Spurs need a player like Tony Parker who may insist on playing for his country but only breaks fingers and never sprains his ankle in the summertime.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Really? doesnt it have to do that you are argentine just like manu? Well, i dont want to destroy your dreams and all that. But still manu in the hall of fame??

[Bukefal]

First of all I'm an atheist so I'm not part of any Church.

Second I can respect your "I think those three guys are still better than manu ever was and will be" opinion, but I can't understand how can you say that when I'm pretty sure you haven't seen Dalipagic nor Meneghin play. I was born in 1986, just like you, and I didn't have the oportunity to see those guys play (and bealive me I'm a basketball junkie, I watch it since I was 4 years old, NBA and FIBA) so I find very difficult to bealive that you were able to see enough of them to so firmly declare: "I think those three guys are still better than manu ever was and will be".

And third you can have all the opinions you want but there are facts that can't be refuted, Manu's place in the HoF is one of them.

Well, thats a bit low argument. We both werent around when wilt chamberlain or Pele in football played, but still we know he was one of the best. So your point is irrelevant.

[Bukefal]

[DAF86]

Well, thats a bit low argument. We both werent around when wilt chamberlain or Pele in football played, but still we know he was one of the best. So your point is irrelevant.

'Cause their accolades prove that they were greater than most. In this case those three guys acomplishments combined can't match Manu's. So your point is irrelevant.

[Bukefal]

They were way better individually than Manu. That Manu got more trophy's, ok, but thats not because of him alone, basketball is a team sport. Manu wasnt all that great. Or are you saying he took those trophys all by himself? :P he just had the luck being on good teams, at the right time, with the right spirit, motivation and a touch of luck. You cant use that.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

They were way better individually than Manu. That Manu got more trophy's, ok, but thats not because of him alone, basketball is a team sport. Manu wasnt all that great. Or are you saying he took those trophys all by himself? :P he just had the luck being on good teams, at the right time, with the right spirit, motivation and a touch of luck. You cant use that.

Keep talking, you're making my day.