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I wonder what will happen to the legion of Kobe-haters like baseline if he actually wins a ring this year. That's going to throw a monkey wrench in their lives.
The least you could do if you are going to put up stats is to put up correct stats. In that 06 series, Odom averaged 19 points, 11 rebounds, and 4.9 assists against the Suns.
As for Kobe in their one elimination game in that 06 series, Kobe's teammates shot 32% from the field and 21% from three point range. I know Kobe quit on them in the second half, but look at what his teammates were giving him. No excuse for Kobe punking out, but it was clear his teammates weren't good back then.
In tonight's elimination game for the Cavs, LeBron's teammates shot 52% from the field and 56% from three point range. If you're going to talk about the supporting casts, then it's important to note that LeBron's supporting cast stepped up tonight while Kobe's supporting cast failed him in that 06 series against Phoenix that you brought up.
I wonder what will happen to the legion of Kobe-haters like baseline if he actually wins a ring this year. That's going to throw a monkey wrench in their lives.
You're a dumbass to even try to justify the Laker's horrendous cast in 05-06.
I dont care if Lebron averages 50 points a game. But he's not going to win a series against a # 1 seeded Phoenix Suns with Kwame Brown and Smush Parker starting for his team.
The Lakers are going to get swept by the LBJ's in the finals. Haven't you heard?
There is one huge difference though. This argument is about Kobe in close out games or elimination games. The evidence is in the numbers that Kobe's clutch numbers, which show in the biggest games like elimination games, are way below par.
Lebron's are not. That is the argument.
Even if you say Lebron's talent is equal (maybe not this year but the previous 4) to the Kobe team with Smush, LO, Kwame...there is another difference. Lebron took his team to a final, Kobe quit on his and got bounced in the first round twice and missed the playoffs entirely once.
He also would not have quit on his team and Kobe would not have taken Big Z, Sasha Pavlovic, Larry Hughes and Drew Gooden to a finals.
That year, in the playoffs, the next leading scorer on the Cavs was Big Z at 12.6, then Gooden at 11.4, the Hughes at 11.3
Next to Kobe, he had Odom at 19.4, Kwame at 8.6 and Walton at 7.2.
The big 3 for Lebron averaged 35.3, the big 3 for Kobe averaged 35.2
I think what people don't realize, is that a lot of fans don't really hate Kobe the way that people think. It's that they hate Kobe fans. Kobe fans are the most obnoxious fanbase on the face of the earth, and they are the answer to their own question... "why all the Kobe hate?"
It's because of you guys, you annoying s.
I love Kobe. I despise Kobe fans.
However I will say this... I don't know who I despise more... Kobe fans or Jordan fans... the only thing about Jordan fans are that Jordan accomplished a lot and is the GOAT. But Jordan fans think he was Jesus or something, completely ing flawless, and just remember all his highlights, which is what is so damn annoying about them.
Unfortunately, that is the product of Mike Brown's piss-poor coaching. Not Lebron. And at least someone last night after a while started to say " it" and make a cut for Lebron while he made a move and drew the double (Anderson) and it made things a whole of a lot easier on Lebron. I have no problem with the team clearing out and letting Lebron take it up top, but they need start having baseline cutters and rotation on the 3 point line once he starts to make his move. When they do the clear out, the focus should not be on Lebron scoring, but rather for him to create, and if the scoring opportunity is there, to take it. But Mike Brown has his head too far up his fat ing ass to realize that.
This still doesn't change the fact that baseline is an insecure person with low personal self-esteem.
do you think this thread helped calming Kobe fans down. this thread was plain dumb. Lebron did a great thing and iOP had to compared it to Kobe. No wonder Lakers fans have to defend Kobe.
Let me let you all in on a little secret.
True Laker fans don't give a how many points Kobe scores. All that matters is that the Lakers win. Did you see any of us complain that Kobe scored 2 ing pts in the 4th quarter of Game 4? NO. WHY? BECAUSE WE WON THE ING GAME.
yah man...MVP crap and indiviidual stats arnt important. It was fun when the team was crap but now when u have a chance to win it all...there's only one goal.
I thought this was a sarcastic post except for the post above it appears you're being serious. Your argument that Kobe had a better supporting cast in 06 compared to the 07 Cavs is that Kobe's main supporting cast averaged 35.2 ppg while LeBron's main supporting cast averaged 35.3 ppg in their respective playoff runs??? Please tell me you're not serious with that argument.
Additionally, no guarantee that Kobe could have taken Zydrunas, Pavlovic, Hughes, and Gooden to the finals, but it's no guarantee he wouldn't have been able to either in the Eastern Conference.
I think it was a stupid thread indeed. But they have to defend Kobe because of themselves and their ridiculous ignorance/arrogance.
No one has a problem with LAKER fans.
The problem lies with the KOBE fans.
lol bait thread
Where did I say they were better? I said it was comparable as evidenced by the scoring help that both received.
I do not care if it was the EC, Detroit still had a good team and should not have lost to Cleveland. No way with the effort Kobe put forth with his squad, could he have mustered up the will to get to an ECF and then beat Detroit. Could it have happened, maybe. Was it likely? Given the evidence of how Lebron performs when he is not happy with his supporting cast vs Kobe, I would have to say no.
I missed this conversation. I'm only commenting on the Smush/Kwame Lakers versus LeBron's cast. Obviously LeBron's cast has been vastly better than Kobe's for the last 5 years or so.
I did not say LeBron's talent was equal...I said it was far superior to Smush/Kwame/Luke.Even if you say Lebron's talent is equal (maybe not this year but the previous 4) to the Kobe team with Smush, LO, Kwame...there is another difference. Lebron took his team to a final, Kobe quit on his and got bounced in the first round twice and missed the playoffs entirely once.
lEastern Conference Finals sweep is what LeBron was able to do with 1 All Star by his side. Kobe got to the Playoff in a much more powerful Western Conference. Kobe missing the Playoffs after Shaq got traded is not surprising at all.
The best teams during that time came from the West...the Suns and Mavs also would have swept the Cavs. The same Suns that knocked out the Lakers would have won the Championship if not for the Amare/Boris suspensions. Everybody knew it was going to be Spurs/Suns or Mavs.
So for the Lakers to get knocked out in the first round versus a pretty awesome Suns team is no shame at all. Neither was it for Lebron to get swept, but I can't say one accomplishment was greater than the other.
Nor, as Jamstone says, could you say what Kobe would or would not have done with that same team in the lEast.
As for LeBron quitting, let's give him 3 more years of losing and then let's see if he's still the perfect Cavalier. I'd be disappointed in LeBron if he doesn't leave Cleveland in 2010 or knock some heads around if he stays a Cavalier.
Last edited by Allanon; 05-29-2009 at 11:09 AM.
It's all assumption. This arguement is going nowhere. You cant tell till it really happens. Everyone and thier mom's thought Cavs would win this series with orldano in 5 or 6 and you see how it turned out.
The year Lebron and the Cavs made it to the finals, they beat the Wiz, NJ and Detroit.
Cleavland was 50-32. The Wiz were without Gilbert. NJ was 41-41 and was healthy and Detroit was 53-29 and was the number 1 seed.
LA was 45-37. The Suns were 54-28, and not nearly as good as Detroit. Suns barely eeked by a weak LA team, another weak LA team that was 47-35 and lost to the Mavs who were the number 1 seed.
The talent on both LA and Cleavland were comparable and if one was better than the other, it was not by a noticeable margin.
Prove it. I listed some numbers to back up that they were comparable talents with the respective players at that point in their careers.
So you can say that the Suns would have won a championship for certain, but you cannot say what Kobe would do with the same team in the East. That is interesting.Eastern Conference Finals sweep is what LeBron was able to do with 1 All Star by his side. Kobe got to the Playoff in a much more powerful Western Conference. Kobe missing the Playoffs after Shaq got traded is not surprising at all.
The best teams during that time came from the West...the Suns and Mavs also would have swept the Cavs. The same Suns that knocked out the Lakers would have won the Championship if not for the Amare/Boris suspensions. Everybody knew it was going to be Spurs/Suns or Mavs.
Nor, as Jamstone says, could you say what Kobe would or would not have done with that same team in the lEast.
Awesome Suns team? I already showed that they barely squeaked out a series win in game 7 against what you call one of the worst supporting cast teams of all time, then they had to do the same thing against a fluke of a Clippers team, then in the only tough series they played, got smashed by the Mavs.So for the Lakers to get knocked out in the first round versus a pretty awesome Suns team is no shame at all. Neither was it for Lebron to get swept, but I can't say one accomplishment was greater than the other.
How does that make them awesome?
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