Raptors are interested in a package deal that would involve Chris Bosh

[urunobili]

bosh,tp, duncan
might have gotten the job done

bosh has been great in his 11 playoff games

bosh>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>manu

did you also think denver would have given the lakers so much trouble?
did you think houston without ming and mcgrady took them to 7 games?

did you think cavs would not have been in the finals?

if bosh could guard howard
mavs would easily get beat
howard always goes off even if manu is playing

I know mason sucked in the playoffs
he hit late clutch shots (like manu)
how many game winners did manu make this year?

mason's confidence in the playoffs was shot do to trying to play point guard

or and I think manu's stat line looked like alot like mcgreedy and ai this postseason

oh just because you a manu homer
does not mean spurs can not win a le without him
they need three stars and one of the other players to step up in a game
this year they had duncan and tp and no one else

:wgaf::wgaf::wgaf::wgaf::wgaf:

[DPG21920]

oh just because you a manu homer
does not mean spurs can not win a le without him
they need three stars and one of the other players to step up in a game
this year they had duncan and tp and no one else

Please show me where I said this? I simply said look at the scenarios. Mason sucked terribly and if his confidence was shot in the regular season, how do you expect him to perform in the clutch in the playoffs?

I asked is Bosh with the same supporting casts and the options available better than Manu. That in no way insinuated that Manu could not be traded.

Who cares who hits more regular season game winners between Mason and Manu? Who has performed better in their careers in the playoffs? Who is a champion, Mason or Manu?

[ducks]

Please show me where I said this? I simply said look at the scenarios. Mason sucked terribly and if his confidence was shot in the regular season, how do you expect him to perform in the clutch in the playoffs?

I asked is Bosh with the same supporting casts and the options available better than Manu. That in no way insinuated that Manu could not be traded.

Who cares who hits more regular season game winners between Mason and Manu? Who has performed better in their careers in the playoffs? Who is a champion, Mason or Manu?

mason has not not played on a good team tell this year
manu would not have won in any rings had he gone to the clippers instead of the clippers



and horry has more rings then manu does that make horry>manu

[DPG21920]

bosh,tp, duncan
might have gotten the job done

bosh has been great in his 11 playoff games

bosh>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>manu

did you also think denver would have given the lakers so much trouble?
did you think houston without ming and mcgrady took them to 7 games?

did you think cavs would not have been in the finals?

if bosh could guard howard
mavs would easily get beat
howard always goes off even if manu is playing

Might have is not doing it. So that is a lot of risks to take for a potential 1 year rental, then you have no Manu and no Bosh and you screwed Duncan and TP.

Yes I thought Denver would give some trouble, but like everyone else (besides you) I knew the Lakers would easily win if they just played at 80% energy level.

Same for Houston and LA. LA coasting was the reason the series was close, not the Rockets.

Cavs were the favorites, but not by that much.

[ducks]

keeping manu is more of a gamble if you can get bosh for him
why he has not been healthy the last 2 playoffs
oh and if spurs do win
keeping bosh is more possible duncan,tp and pop can talk to him all year

[DPG21920]

mason has not not played on a good team tell this year
manu would not have won in any rings had he gone to the clippers instead of the clippers



and horry has more rings then manu does that make horry>manu

No, it is not just rings, it is numbers. Take rings out of the equation, look at Mason's playoff numbers vs Manu's. Same with Horry vs Manu. Then tell me who performs better.

Mason averaged 6.6 points and 1.6 rebounds and 1.8 assists this year in the PO. The year before he averaged 8 points, 1 rebound and 1 assist, while Manu averaged 18 points, 4 rebounds and 4 assist.

Manu did not even play this year in the playoffs and he was closer to Mason's numbers than Mason was to Manu in Mason's best year ever in the PO.

[DPG21920]

keeping manu is more of a gamble if you can get bosh for him
why he has not been healthy the last 2 playoffs
oh and if spurs do win
keeping bosh is more possible duncan,tp and pop can talk to him all year

Manu was healthy and helped get the Spurs to the WCF last year. Healthy Mason took the Spurs no where with essentially the same cast.

[ducks]

Manu was healthy and helped get the Spurs to the WCF last year. Healthy Mason took the Spurs no where with essentially the same cast.

he was hurt in the wcf
mason played decent in regular season especially before allstar break



ps duncan was not 100% this year
manu won before when duncan was healthy
mason did not have a healthy duncan this year in the playoffs
still should have played better then he did though

[DPG21920]

But the point is not to knock Mason to build up Manu. The point is saying that based on the risks of signing Bosh and the actual talent on the team, it would be shifting the problem from the front court to the back court if the Spurs traded Manu for Bosh.

As of right now, the Spurs need a SF and C. The SG position is filled nicely with Manu, Hill and Mason. The Center position has Bonner, KT and Oberto and Ian.

If you get Bosh by trading Manu, you now have a need for a legit starter at SG and still at SF. The difference it that the only depth you have a SG is Hill and Mason.

So you can see although you patch up the C positon with Bosh, you make an even bigger hole at SG because of the lack of depth.

[ducks]

you would be improving the team alot in another area
sure you would lose some with manu
but I think you make up for the upgrade in the other area then what you lose
ofcourse there are no guarantees
but keeping the same team intake is not going to get it done next year

[DPG21920]

he was hurt in the wcf
mason played decent in regular season especially before allstar break



ps duncan was not 100% this year
manu won before when duncan was healthy
mason did not have a healthy duncan this year in the playoffs
still should have played better then he did though

I know he was hurt in the WCF, point is when he was healthy the Spurs made it that far.

Who cares if Mason played well before the all-star break? Spurs need playoff performers. It was not Mason's fault, he was put in a role where he could not succeed. That will be the role he has to play if Manu is gone and you do not get someone of equal talent to replace him.

Duncan averaged 20 points, 8 boards, 3 assist and had an eff rating of +22 in the playoffs.

[Stump]

If the Spurs are working out a trade with Toronto, can't they negotiate a contract extension with Bosh before he is even traded? As I remember, that is exactly what Boston did in the KG trade.

If that's the case, and Bosh is assured to remain a Spur, I think you have to make that trade.

[ducks]

I think hill will be better next year also

[DPG21920]

you would be improving the team alot in another area
sure you would lose some with manu
but I think you make up for the upgrade in the other area then what you lose
ofcourse there are no guarantees
but keeping the same team intake is not going to get it done next year

What adds more value to a team with regards to depth?

Mason + Hill

or

Bonner + Oberto + KT + Ian

Bosh is an excellent player and if you could get him for Manu, that would be the absolute best you could hope for, but there are risks and other factors that make the decision a difficult one.

[DPG21920]

But the point is moot anyways. If everyone here "knows" Manu is always injured and can no longer be effective, then why would the Raptors trade Bosh for him?

Especially when other teams could offer the same cap relief and more talent. Spurs would be in the far back of possible realistic suitors for Bosh.

[Mel_13]

But the point is mute anyways. If everyone here "knows" Manu is always injured and can no longer be effective, then why would the Raptors trade Bosh for him?

Especially when other teams could offer the same cap relief and more talent. Spurs would be in the far back of possible realistic suitors for Bosh.

It is indeed a moot point. If the Raptors put Bosh on the market they will get many offers far better than Manu/filler/Hill/future picks.

But in the fantasy world where the Raptors are willing to trade Bosh for Manu plus other assets, then the Spurs have to make that trade. The potential rewards are too great and the worst case scenario is actually much better than what you have laid out to this point.

[DPG21920]

Thanks for the "moot" correction, stupid rush typing.

How so? Worst case scenario is the Spurs trade Manu (he turns out to be healthy) get Bosh and do not have the money to upgrade the spots of need without going way over the luxury tax.

In that scenario, the Spurs likely are an early out again, Bosh would probably walk, then the Spurs are stuck with no Manu and no Bosh for Duncan's final years.

[Mel_13]

Thanks for the "moot" correction, stupid rush typing.

How so? Worst case scenario is the Spurs trade Manu (he turns out to be healthy) get Bosh and do not have the money to upgrade the spots of need without going way over the luxury tax.

In that scenario, the Spurs likely are an early out again, Bosh would probably walk, then the Spurs are stuck with no Manu and no Bosh for Duncan's final years.

The worst case with Bosh is much better than the worst case with Manu.

With Manu:

1. He has a great season and the Spurs have to overpay to keep a player that could break down at any time

2. He doesn't return to health and the Spurs have nothing but cap space.

With Bosh:

1. If he doesn't want to stay (although I don't know why he would walk away from a max contract) or more the likely possibility that the Spurs don't think he is worth a max extension. In that case, the Spurs still hold his Bird Rights and can sign him to a deal worth 25-30M more than other team. The three big potential fish in the summer of 2010 are James, Wade, and Bosh. Cleveland and Miami are positioning themselves to be able to add a max contract to their existing superstar and the Knicks are are trying to position themselves to sign two max contracts. If the Spurs hold Bosh's Bird rights, they can offer him in a S&T to the highest bidder. From Miami, for example, they could get Beasley, Cook, future picks and a hefty trade exception. To that you add Splitter, who you still have the money for in 2010, and that's a pretty good summer.

So if you could trade Manu plus filler for one year of Bosh, plus Beasley, Cook, future draft picks, a big trade exception and still have enough money to bring Splitter over, do you make that deal?

I think you do, but it will never come to that because Toronto could probably get that same deal from Miami right now. And because they could get a deal like that from Miami or a David Lee/Danilo Gallinari package from the Knicks, there is no way that they take a deal centering on Manu.

[DPG21920]

Yes, Bosh to SA would never happen, unless the Spurs had cap space and could pluck him via FA.

I was speaking from a the worst case side of basketball impact for the next 2-3 years. The holes it would leave by trading Manu combined with the salary ramifications of signing Bosh and the inability to upgrade without significant luxury tax would make the deal tough.

But I agree that with regard to worst case (Manu being hurt and getting no extension or having Bosh for one year) that having more cap space and a better trading chip with Bosh would be better.

[Mel_13]

Yes, Bosh to SA would never happen, unless the Spurs had cap space and could pluck him via FA.

I was speaking from a the worst case side of basketball impact for the next 2-3 years. The holes it would leave by trading Manu combined with the salary ramifications of signing Bosh and the inability to upgrade without significant luxury tax would make the deal tough.

But I agree that with regard to worst case (Manu being hurt and getting no extension or having Bosh for one year) that having more cap space and a better trading chip with Bosh would be better.

Yep, there's basically no scenario where Bosh becomes a Spur. He's going to get his max extension, either from Toronto or from whoever they trade him to. No way he signs a pure FA deal with another club and leaves 25-30M guaranteed dollars on the table when he can get all his money in a S&T. So he stays with Toronto or is traded. If he is traded, the Spurs will never be able to make the best offer.

For me, it would take a player like Bosh for it to make sense to move Manu this summer. With all the other "dream" targets (Jefferson, Carter, Kaman), I think the risks you outlined above are applicable. For a lesser player on a longer contract, I would prefer to hold on to Manu at least until the trade deadline. At that point, the Spurs will know enough about his health and TD's health to decide whether it is best to trade Manu, resign him, or simply let his contract expire.

[z0sa]

I'd 100% surely trade Manu+filler for Bosh. No second thoughts oncesoever.

Tim's - and the Spurs' - time is now, 2010. The offseason following 2010's playoffs can be addressed then. In case you all forgot, we just got bounced by a ty team in the first round, therefore wasting - even casting an undeserved shadow upon - one of Tim's great years, a true travesty. I won't watch silently while we put Manu's fleeting health in front of Tim and the Spurs' success. If Manu can pull Bosh's value, he should be gone immediately.

[Private Joker]

Is that you John Wayne? Is this me?

[rascal]

No, it is not just rings, it is numbers. Take rings out of the equation, look at Mason's playoff numbers vs Manu's. Same with Horry vs Manu. Then tell me who performs better.

Mason averaged 6.6 points and 1.6 rebounds and 1.8 assists this year in the PO. The year before he averaged 8 points, 1 rebound and 1 assist, while Manu averaged 18 points, 4 rebounds and 4 assist.

Manu did not even play this year in the playoffs and he was closer to Mason's numbers than Mason was to Manu in Mason's best year ever in the PO.

Your also forgetting to compare Bosh with the weak current spurs frontline outside of Duncan. Thats a huge upgrade worth Manu. With Hill as a combo 1-2 and Mason the spurs are fine at the 2.

Don't just look at what you will be trading away but look at what you will be gaining.

[DPG21920]

Your also forgetting to compare Bosh with the weak current spurs frontline outside of Duncan. Thats a huge upgrade worth Manu. With Hill as a combo 1-2 and Mason the spurs are fine at the 2.

Don't just look at what you will be trading away but look at what you will be gaining.

That is exactly what I was doing. I personally think that Bonner+Ian+KT+Tim then having Manu+TP+Hill+Mason is just as good as having Bonner+Ian+KT+Tim+Bosh then having TP+Mason+Hill.

I think that the combo of Bonner/Ian/KT can make do better than Hill/Mason. With Mason/Hill at the two, the Spurs would probably have the worst depth/skill at that position in the league. Mason nor Hill have proven they can handle the ball with any sustainable success, who will back up TP? Who else besides TP could handle the ball in crunch time?

I am not saying Bosh for Manu is a bad trade, I am saying I do not think that does anything to help the Spurs become a contender because you would still need more pieces. If Bosh were to walk, that would make it a bad deal for the Spurs.

Edit: strictly from a basketball standpoint and the depth the Spurs currently have at the position. Also assuming health and the Spurs inability to add more pieces because of the luxury tax.

[spurspokesman]

soooooo...what does this mean for the spurs?

Exactly what I wanna know