Do we hold Kobe to a higher standard than any other player in NBA history?

[DrHouse]

The Lakers ARE Kobe's team. He sets the dinner table up and everyone else feasts off of him.

[Ghazi]

Kobe had nothing to do with the Game 4 win

Absolutely nothing

[Ice009]

Kobe (2009 Finals): 4 games, 44.0 min., 33.0 PPG (48/112, 43%), 5.5 RPG, 8.0 APG, 1.3 SPG, 3.8 TO
Pierce (2008 Finals): 6 games, 38.8 min., 21.8 PPG (38/88, 43%), 4.0 RPG, 6.3 APG, 1.2 SPG, 3.7 TO
Lebron (2007 Finals): 4 games, 42.5 min., 22.0 PPG (32/90, 36%), 7.0 RPG, 6.8 APG, 1.0 SPG, 0.5 TO
Wade (2006 Finals): 6 games, 43.5 min., 34.7 PPG (65/139, 47%), 7.8 RPG, 3.8 APG, 2.7 SPG, 3.7 TO

Jordan (1996 Finals): 6 games, 42.0 min., 27.3 PPG (51/123, 42%), 5.3 RPG, 4.2 APG, 1.7 SPG, 3.0 TO
Jordan (1997 Finals): 6 games, 42.7 min., 32.3 PPG (72/158, 46%), 7.0 RPG, 6.0 APG, 1.2 SPG, 2.2 TO
Jordan (1998 Finals): 6 games, 41.7 min., 33.5 PPG (70/164, 43%), 4.0 RPG, 2.3 APG, 1.8 SPG, 1.7 TO

How about putting up all of Kobe's finals stats through out his career Vs all of Jordan's?

[DeadlyDynasty]

Yes and if you replace D12 with a Prime Shaq or a Prime TD they could still get things done. Why the do people say that? It's so stupid. Of course if you replace Kobe with LBJ or Wade the Lakers would still be good.

The Lakers are NOTHING without Kobe though. They would probably barely make the playoffs without him. That's something you just don't get unless you are a Laker fan.

true...there's Good Kobe and Evil Kobe, but I'm glad he's on our team, despite the many frustrating moments. If he wins one more game this year his sins will be absolved

Seriously though, it's been a uva ride following him since from the 96 draft, to the 3 Utah airballs, to the majestic 2000 Game 4 Finals performance, to his many amazing games against Portland, San Antonio and Sacramento, to his 81-point game, to these last two seasons and his resurgence as a leader...All the good and the bad...I feel privileged as a Laker fan to have seen him play, and hope he has a couple elite years left

[Amaso]

Mentiras, he is not. MJ>>>>Kobe. MJ took teams far less talented than Kobe's to 6 championships by Himself. Kobe won his rings as a sidekick. Kobe is only shooting 41% in the finals btw.

You act like Scottie Pippen isn't better than Pau Gasol.

[Amaso]

Kobe will never live up to MJ's legacy, even if he matches him in rings. Kobe has the same skill level, if not higher than MJ but it's just how it is. He's the closest thing we'll get though.

[Lars]

Kobe was never able to do anything without an absolutely loaded team. He has consistantly underacheived and never overacheived. Having his name mentioned in the same paragraph as Jordan is heresy.

[baseline bum]

Why..because we have a whole plethora of uneducated ball fans on this site. Too young to have watched the MJ games and only spout their expertise on what they have heard or read...no internet back in those days...

It's a shame really, KOBE=MJ in talent and as a ball player. I have been blessed as a ball fan to have watched KOBE play throughout his entire career.

No ing way. Anyone who watched Jordan's entire career knows that ridiculous statement is horse .

[KSeal]

Kobe had nothing to do with the Game 4 win

Absolutely nothing

Really? So when Lewis hit a three to start overtime and then Kobe went down and hit back to back long jumpers to give the Lakers a one point lead and then later when the game was tied at 91, he attracted a double team in the post and kicked it out to Fisher for a wide open dagger three, Kobe had "absolutely nothing" to do with them winning that game, I think you're blind.

[phyzik]

The only reason Kobe is held at such a high standard, not a higher standard, is he himself wants to be like MJ. Its not a higher standard he is being held at, its THE standard when you want to be THAT guy.... and honestly, to quote a movie, he has been weighed, messured and has been found wanting.

[Amaso]

Kobe was never able to do anything without an absolutely loaded team. He has consistantly underacheived and never overacheived. Having his name mentioned in the same paragraph as Jordan is heresy.

Kobe's best accomplishment might be leading a starting lineup of Kwame Brown/Smush Parker/Luke Walton to a 47 win season.

[Ice009]

I will ask this again.

How about putting up all of MJ's finals stats and all of MJ's playoff stats and then compare them to Kobe?

Not a good post at all from the OP.

[Frenzy]

well i would just like to say...

first of all MJ is do dam likable...i never knew anyone who didn't like Mj or heard of him. Never spoken of in a negative way. It's like his game his legacy just happened. Now Bring up Kobe....people either say he's awesome or some people say... "he's good just no MJ" or "oh i hate him" i think this kobe = mj thing happen... cause people made it happen they wanted it so bad... that people just started to hate it. Most likely cause jordan was just so good people didn't want people saying kobe=mj. If kobe did = MJ i don't think you would have tons of people saying "no he's not mj" Not to mention they are not just spurs fans on this board. Fans of all teams loved jordan..... can you say that about kobe?

[hhml]

Really? So when Lewis hit a three to start overtime and then Kobe went down and hit back to back long jumpers to give the Lakers a one point lead and then later when the game was tied at 91, he attracted a double team in the post and kicked it out to Fisher for a wide open dagger three, Kobe had "absolutely nothing" to do with them winning that game, I think you're blind.

He was mocking Dr. House for creating a thread stating Kobe derserves no credit for the Lakers' win

[Amaso]

well i would just like to say...

first of all MJ is do dam likable...i never knew anyone who didn't like Mj or heard of him. Never spoken of in a negative way. It's like his game his legacy just happened. Now Bring up Kobe....people either say he's awesome or some people say... "he's good just no MJ" or "oh i hate him" i think this kobe = mj thing happen... cause people made it happen they wanted it so bad... that people just started to hate it. Most likely cause jordan was just so good people didn't want people saying kobe=mj. If kobe did = MJ i don't think you would have tons of people saying "no he's not mj" Not to mention they are not just spurs fans on this board. Fans of all teams loved jordan..... can you say that about kobe?

That was pretty painful to read. But I think I get the gist of what you were saying. Kobe is polarizing guy because of Colorado and his time coming right off of MJ's retirement.

[Frenzy]

That was pretty painful to read. But I think I get the gist of what you were saying. Kobe is polarizing guy because of Colorado and his time coming right off of MJ's retirement.

dam it! i knew i should have used more periods and spacing and commas and spelling and all that jazz

But it was directed at lakers fans so i was trying to blend

[underdawg]

That was pretty painful to read. But I think I get the gist of what you were saying. Kobe is polarizing guy because of Colorado and his time coming right off of MJ's retirement.

Kobe's a great player - there's no denying that regardless of anyone's opinion of him. The things that hurt Kobe are obviously some of the things he's done and I don't know if the Colorado situation hurt him more than the Shaq fiasco or the request to be traded/request to trade Bynum. Those things considered - the fact that Chicago wasn't that good before MJ and after MJ retired is more compelling than Kobe playing on LA that has had success for a long time, so it was expected that the Lakers would succeed where it was absolutely not expected that the Bulls would succeed - that's the big difference.

[DrHouse]

Jordan also demanded to be traded unless the Bulls surrounded him with better players. He also cheated on his wife. And he also berated his teammates publicly and even got into fist fights with them in practice (most notoriously punching out Steve Kerr).

There is something ELSE besides all of THAT, that fuels the Kobe hate. I think it's something about his personality and demeanor that just rubs people the wrong way.

[Frenzy]

Jordan also demanded to be traded unless the Bulls surrounded him with better players. He also cheated on his wife. And he also berated his teammates publicly and even got into fist fights with them in practice (most notoriously punching out Steve Kerr).

There is something ELSE besides all of THAT, that fuels the Kobe hate. I think it's something about his personality and demeanor that just rubs people the wrong way.

i agree....kinda like this show i watch....about this dr.... who is smart... but acts like a jerk ass...


heard of it?

[underdawg]

Jordan also demanded to be traded unless the Bulls surrounded him with better players. He also cheated on his wife. And he also berated his teammates publicly and even got into fist fights with them in practice (most notoriously punching out Steve Kerr).

There is something ELSE besides all of THAT, that fuels the Kobe hate. I think it's something about his personality and demeanor that just rubs people the wrong way.

wow - that's news to me. When did Jordan ask to be traded and when did he cheat on his wife - are there articles that support that?

[underdawg]

Jordan also demanded to be traded unless the Bulls surrounded him with better players. He also cheated on his wife. And he also berated his teammates publicly and even got into fist fights with them in practice (most notoriously punching out Steve Kerr).

There is something ELSE besides all of THAT, that fuels the Kobe hate. I think it's something about his personality and demeanor that just rubs people the wrong way.

here are Kobe's shining moments:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobe_Br...l_assault_case

http://www.glam.com/blogs/gone_holly...t_cheats_again

http://www.newser.com/story/3276/kob...leg-video.html

[DrHouse]

Gambling

During the Bulls' playoff run in 1993, controversy arose when Jordan was seen gambling in Atlantic City, New Jersey the night before a game against the New York Knicks.[40] In that same year, he admitted to having to cover $57,000 in gambling losses,[41] and author Richard Esquinas wrote a book claiming he had won $1.25 million from Jordan on the golf course.[41] In 2005, Jordan talked to Ed Bradley of the CBS evening show 60 Minutes about his gambling and admitted that he made some reckless decisions. Jordan stated, "Yeah, I've gotten myself into situations where I would not walk away and I've pushed the envelope. Is that compulsive? Yeah, it depends on how you look at it. If you're willing to jeopardize your livelihood and your family, then yeah."[42] When Bradley asked him if his gambling ever got to the level where it jeopardized his livelihood or family, Jordan replied, "No."[42]

Cheating

On July 21, 2006, a Cook County, Illinois judge determined that Jordan did not owe a former lover, Karla Knafel, $5 million.[130] Jordan had allegedly paid Knafel $250,000 to keep their relationship a secret.

Obviously it's going to be difficult to prove something like cheating, but just know his ex-wife Juanita got a $168 million dollar divorce settlement after being married to MJ for 17 years. The largest divorce settlement of any sports athlete.

Fighting with teammates

[DrHouse]

Jordan's character flaws are swept aside because he was a winner.

Ultimately all anybody ever remembers you in sports for is what you have won.

[kingmalaki]

Jordan also demanded to be traded unless the Bulls surrounded him with better players. He also cheated on his wife. And he also berated his teammates publicly and even got into fist fights with them in practice (most notoriously punching out Steve Kerr).

There is something ELSE besides all of THAT, that fuels the Kobe hate. I think it's something about his personality and demeanor that just rubs people the wrong way.

When did MJ ask to be traded? That's news to me. Where is the support for that one.

I recall behind the scene books coming out which mentioned how cruel he was to teammates, fighting them in practice and what not. But I rarely recall him blasting a teammate to the media or getting into it with one of them on the court, even in major instances such as the "Pippen mirainge in the playoffs" one.

[underdawg]

Jordan's character flaws are swept aside because he was a winner.

Ultimately all anybody ever remembers you in sports for is what you have won.

wow you're a moron - that video just helped explain the difference between MJ and Kobe. MJ fought with his teamates and they respected him. Kobe didn't fight with his teamates and they still don't respect him. "Phil Jackson wasn't the coach - Michael Jordan was the coach" - that just goes to show that PJ had been in the right place at the right time. I'll give you the gambling and the settlement, but you do have to admit - MJ was never arrested or tried for a crime. Steve Kerr still says that he was never motivated by anyone like he was by MJ (other players have said the same thing.) No Kobe teamates have ever said that.