I want Nick Young and the #5 pick.

[silk]

Spurs never had a chance to compete with garbage like Vaughn, Udoka, Oberto, Bonner, and Finley on our bench. The Spurs FO shot themeselves in the foot the past two years and the team's suffering as a result.

We're beatin' a dead horse there. Glad you're not mentionning "the one who should not be named".

Constructive thoughts someone ?

[tim_duncan_fan]

tim duncan fan needs to be rug out into the middle of I 37.

Really, for what? Not worshiping Giniobili?

Look, he was a good player. He was in that middle tier of NBA shooting guards for about 3 years. But he's old and injured now and isn't going to come back and be an all-star.

[ffadicted]

Anyone in this thread who has agreed to just Nick Young and #5 for Manu is a complete idiot and should now proceed to ban themselves.

Thanks

[rascal]

If we stay put, we are dead. Not acting is what got us in the shape we were in this past season. It would be stupid to go into the season with the same team as last year.

That Mavs series was awfully eye-opening. I knew the time to start making changes was pretty close but I had no idea it was right on the doorstep.

You see, the time to do something like what we're talking about now was the summer of 2008 after the Lakers beat our butts but we stayed with it. This past season we got man-handled by one of the lesser teams in the playoffs. We only won one game, which means that in all practical terms of the word, we didn't even compete.

We need to trade Manu for Nick Young and #5. If for some reason they will give us Caron Butler instead of Nick Young then we do that, but in either case we would receive a good basketball player that wouldn't be totally dependent upon Tony Parker to make a shot for them and the number five we could use to draft a young big guy. , anybody we draft with number five is going to be better than Mahinimi and will indubitably produce more than anything pretending Tiago Splitter is going to come over here ever will.

Just make the trade. In the worst case scenario we make the playoffs and get ousted by some crappy team like Dallas, which is the best case if we stand pat.

Agree. Finally someone thinking with logic instead of letting emotion and past memories cloud logic.

[silk]

I think we can also use logic to support the side "don't trade manu you stupid" , even if emotion rules this side of the Second Global Spurs talk war ( the first one being Tony vs Manu) ^^


Too lazy to search, but what side are TimVp and kori on ? they're usually spot on

[Bukefal]

if we stay put, we are dead. Not acting is what got us in the shape we were in this past season. It would be stupid to go into the season with the same team as last year.

That mavs series was awfully eye-opening. I knew the time to start making changes was pretty close but i had no idea it was right on the doorstep.

You see, the time to do something like what we're talking about now was the summer of 2008 after the lakers beat our butts but we stayed with it. This past season we got man-handled by one of the lesser teams in the playoffs. We only won one game, which means that in all practical terms of the word, we didn't even compete.

We need to trade manu for nick young and #5. If for some reason they will give us caron butler instead of nick young then we do that, but in either case we would receive a good basketball player that wouldn't be totally dependent upon tony parker to make a shot for them and the number five we could use to draft a young big guy. , anybody we draft with number five is going to be better than mahinimi and will indubitably produce more than anything pretending tiago splitter is going to come over here ever will.

Just make the trade. In the worst case scenario we make the playoffs and get ousted by some crappy team like dallas, which is the best case if we stand pat.

+1

[Bukefal]

Really, for what? Not worshiping Giniobili?

Look, he was a good player. He was in that middle tier of NBA shooting guards for about 3 years. But he's old and injured now and isn't going to come back and be an all-star.

[FromWayDowntown]

If he's done what do you expect to get for him?

Indeed. This is the part of the argument that begins to make absolutely no sense to me.

Suppose, for those of you who are of a mind that Manu is done and that the Spurs should deal him, that the best deal the Spurs can get is one that involves the Lakers sending Lamar Odom (via a sign-and-trade) and something else to San Antonio for Manu. Are those of you who are cool with trading Manu down with trading him to LA?

[rayray2k8]

Good for you!!

[tim_duncan_fan]

Indeed. This is the part of the argument that begins to make absolutely no sense to me.

Suppose, for those of you who are of a mind that Manu is done and that the Spurs should deal him, that the best deal the Spurs can get is one that involves the Lakers sending Lamar Odom (via a sign-and-trade) and something else to San Antonio for Manu. Are those of you who are cool with trading Manu down with trading him to LA?

The thing about Odom is that he can be really shaky in the playoffs.

[silk]

Young and 5 assures us more quan y of play-off years

Manu assures us more quality on, supposedly, less play-off years

I take the quality, i want the championship, not just bein in the play-off for bein' in the play-off

I hope Pop thinks the same, like Julius Caesar "better to be 1st in some muddy town with a muddy river than 2nd in Roma "

[FromWayDowntown]

The thing about Odom is that he can be really shaky in the playoffs.

And those concerns don't exist with Nick Young or whoever might be the #5 pick?

Look, I'm talking about a deal for what the Spurs really need. We know that the Spurs need a big man who can rebound and defend athletic bigs and an wing who can shoot the ball, right? Odom is definitely a long big who can rebound and defend athletic players. Supposing the deal the Lakers offered the Spurs was a sign-and-trade with Odom with Vujacic and a pick for Manu, Oberto, and Mahinmi.

Do you take that deal and allow Manu to go to LA?

[silk]

You make houston better than you, then you make laker's virtually unbeatable for you ?


Great trade , it would certainly change for the worst the spurs FO reputation

[TD4THREE]

Manu assures us more quality on, supposedly, less play-off years

I take the quality, i want the championship, not just bein in the play-off for bein' in the play-off

That's if Manu returns to form, which after coming off severe injuries to both ankles at his age is a big if. If next year is just a repeat of last year for him, then where does that leave the spurs? Worse than where we are now, and then they're still going to have to make the descision on whether or not to extend him.

[silk]

It's a risk worth taking

If he breaks down, he's a free agent, so we can just use money to get a player who will have more of an impact than young and 5

[SenorSpur]

Nick Young? Good, young player - no question.

I'd rather the Spurs, keep Manu, trade up into the middle or end of the 1st round and draft Sam Young.

Also, because this is such a weak draft, there is no need for the Spurs to acquire the 5th pick.

[elbamba]

Faulty logic. LA wasn't healthy either.

Bynum being out would be like us losing Finley to injury. A noticeable piece but ultimately irrelevant.

If they were missing Gasol/Kobe then it would have been equal.

[DMX7]

This trade would also give us 5-6 million of extra cap space

[Mel_13]

This trade would also give us 5-6 million of extra cap space

If you're talking about 2010, it would reduce cap space by at least 6M.

If you're talking about 2009, it will add at least 1M-3M to the payroll and make it more difficult to use the MLE.

[DMX7]

If you're talking about 2009, it will add at least 1M-3M to the payroll and make it more difficult to use the MLE.

Explain that to me.

In 2009, Nick Young will make $1.7 million & the #5 Draft Pick will make $2.7 million. Ginobili will make $10.8 million in 2009.

Do the math, it saves us $6.4 million.

[FromWayDowntown]

Explain that to me.

In 2009, Nick Young will make $1.7 million & the #5 Draft Pick will make $2.7 million. Ginobili will make $10.8 million in 2009.

Do the math, it saves us $6.4 million.

Unless Washington is under the cap for 2009-10 (which would absolutely shock me with Arenas, Jamison, and Butler under contract), they'll have to send back more salaries than just Young and the #2 pick -- they'll have to match what they take in, more or less.

[Mel_13]

Explain that to me.

In 2009, Nick Young will make $1.7 million & the #5 Draft Pick will make $2.7 million. Ginobili will make $10.8 million in 2009.

Do the math, it saves us $6.4 million.

They will have to send around 7M in additional contracts to make the trade work under the CBA.

[DMX7]

They will have to send around 7M in additional contracts to make the trade work under the CBA.

Ok, then the money being exchanged is even not adding 1-3M. We're getting at least 3 players too so that means we have more to spend on the remaining players.

[Spurtacus]

One player (the #5 pick) doesn't mean an instant championship. It WOULD be nice to get some youth into the lineup though.

[Mel_13]

Ok, then the money being exchanged is even not adding 1-3M. We're getting at least 3 players too so that means we have more to spend on the remaining players.

Its more complicated than that. The 7M is on the low end of what can be sent back in addition to Young, it could be as much as 11.7M. The players and the size of the contracts would factor into the deal, but the CBA allows a fairly wide range in a deal like this.

You will be better able to comment on such things by familiarizing yourself with the information presented here:

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#94