Does Bowen's jersey get retired and hung from the rafters?

[Lackluster]

love it when people say Bowen's "only" good at defense trying to marginalize his worth. well guess what, defense is half of the game(and in the Spurs' case more!) Bowen's value to this dynasty is immeasurable.

exactly! especially on a team who's success is predicated on a culture of defense.

we're not talking about raja bell playing great defense on the suns, or ariza being a great defender for the lakers. these are role players. bruce was a major cog in what the spurs focused on the most night in and night out.

we're talking about a situation paramount to dumars or ben wallace on the pistons. (although dumars was a great offensive talent too i know, but still...).

[gm5k]

we're talking about a situation paramount to dumars or ben wallace

yep. the people that are arguing against his jersey retirement wouldn't even try if Bowen had gotten a DPOY award or 2 like he deserved.

[spursjustice]

Manu will get his jersey retired. There shouldn't even be a debate for that one.

It's understandable that some people don't think Bruce is deserving of a jersey retirement because he was a role player. However, I can't help but think most who don't think Bruce should have his jersey retired make this choice subconsciously because defense is not as glamourous as offense.

Fact shows Bruce was a NBA elite defender - capable of shutting (or at very least) slowing down the Kobe Bryants and Lebron James' of the NBA during the playoffs. He was also a better than average 3pt shooter. How is he just a role player?

One player I like to liken Bruce with is Michael Cooper. He was a role player for the showtime Lakers in the 80s. He helped them to 5 championships. Along the way he collected 5 NBA All-Defensive First Team and 3 NBA All-Defensive Second Team selections. From memory, he also shot the 3 ball pretty well. Despite all that, he's still classified as a role player? I don't know much about the Lakers but their game was revolved around a high octane offense during that time and whether Cooper gets his jersey retired is something I am not interested in.

However, Bruce played for the Spurs for 8 seasons. Of those 8 seasons, the Spurs were an elite defensive team for 7 seasons. Tim Duncan & Bruce Bowen were the mains reasons for this.

Bruce is definitely no Tim Duncan, but he sure is no Jaren Jackson, Malik Rose, Speedy Claxton or Nazr Mohammed. I hope Bruce gets his jersey retired.

[Mark in Austin]

I don't think anybody who dismisses Bowen's defensive presence as something a role-player can do truly understands Spurs basketball.

Bowen set the tone defensively - he was Pop on the floor. Bowen's defensive abilities were what allowed the Spurs to deploy the schemes they did. Without Bowen, it would not have worked. Bruce was the player that allowed the Spurs to transition from a post-post defensive scheme to a post-wing defensive scheme without missing a beat. Do you realize how hard that is?

Tim, Tony, Manu and Bruce were all vital parts of those championship teams - take any one of those players away in a given year and the Spurs would not have won that le. All their jerseys will be in the rafters.

[Mark in Austin]

http://nbahoopsonline.com/teams/SanA...les/top20.html

Hoops has him as #15 all time spurs. He is only one on this list who won a championship who has not gotton his number retired.

Tim and Tony and Manu are already locks.

This statement from that website on Parker:

"Parker is a pass first point guard who is on pace to become the teams all-time leader in assists."

tells me all I need to know about their level of Spurs knowledge.

[sprrs]

Elliott deserves his jersey up there, he was an all-star or borderline all-star for a good portion of his career here.

If we're using accomplishments to justify retiring a jersey, Bowen was a Borderline DPOY three or four years in a row, and is still a perennial all-defense first and second team.

[Nathan Explosion]

Bowen is going to have his jersey retired. We all know it's going to happen. Why is this still an issue 7 pages later?

[jay014]

[YODA]

Mike Mitc was the guy I loved as a kid. Guy never got much air time or publicity, but you could always count on him.

Bowen=yes

[bigfan]

One of the best to ever play for the Spurs. The forgotten ace.

[wijayas]

It ing better after A.J.'s was retired.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

freakin YES.

Big 4 FTW. Couldn't have done it with out Bruce.

[Brutalis]

Bowen will be retired. I don't know why this went 7 pages nor care to read it. It'll be in the rafters by 2014 is my guess.

[hsxvvd]

Absolutely worthy.

Duncan, Manu, Bowen and then Parker in my opinion... based on what they have already done.

In a stretch of four/five? les... there's good reason to lift some jerseys.

[FkLA]

If we're using accomplishments to justify retiring a jersey, Bowen was a Borderline DPOY three or four years in a row, and is still a perennial all-defense first and second team.

Dont even compare Bruce to Elliott...Sean was a very good player on both sides of the ball and dude played on one damn kidney for that 99' run. Thats just a dumb comparison.

And Im not dissing Bowen's defense...its stupid how people here assume I dont understand defense, dont appreciate what he did, or somehow dislike Bowen. None of that is true, I know what Bruce did was vital and I appreciate what he did. Which is why like Ive been saying this whole time give him a nice tribute. Jersey retirements however are for the stars that make the sucess possible, not for role players that help these stars out.

Also dont make it seem like Bruce was great at one entire half of the game (defense)...dude was a great perimeter defender no doubt but there are other aspects of defense in which he was nothing special. Also the fact that he was a good corner 3-point shooter does not negate the fact that he was a bad offensive player, sometimes even a liability. Also whats this Big Four crap? Its the Big Three, Bruce always has been and always will be a role player. An important one but a role player nontheless. I like the guy but I will en vomit if he gets his jersey retired.

Absolutely worthy.

Duncan, Manu, Bowen and then Parker in my opinion... based on what they have already done.

In a stretch of four/five? les... there's good reason to lift some jerseys.

Bowen before Parker? Even if it is just now, it is still an idiotic statement. Parker is way more vital to our sucess than Bowen ever was.

[El Jefe]

Also dont make it seem like Bruce was great at one entire half of the game (defense)...dude was a great perimeter defender no doubt but there are other aspects of defense in which he was nothing special.

Que?

What other aspects of defense was he "nothing special?" There is ONE aspect to defense, and that is making the other team score less efficiently than they normally do. At his peak, Bowen could guard 3 positions on the floor (With the right matchup, it was 4 positions,) and universally made them less efficient at scoring by a significant amount. An amount that wins ball games.

People scored less when he was guarding them. Anything else is over thinking (or possibly under thinking) the equation.

[sabar]

Jersey retirements however are for the stars that make the sucess possible, not for role players that help these stars out.

Wrong

/thread

[Mark in Austin]

And Im not dissing Bowen's defense...its stupid how people here assume I dont understand defense, dont appreciate what he did, or somehow dislike Bowen. None of that is true, I know what Bruce did was vital and I appreciate what he did. Which is why like Ive been saying this whole time give him a nice tribute. Jersey retirements however are for the stars that make the sucess possible, not for role players that help these stars out.

And yet, you still call him a role player. If Bruce was a role player how come the Spurs have been trying to find his eventual successor for 4 seasons now with no luck? Role players are a dime a dozen - take one out and plug another one in.

In terms of team success and the contributions a player made to it, Bowen is ahead off all the current retired jerseys except Gervin and Robinson.

[Mel_13]

can the hardcore or older fans tell me about james silas?!?!i wasnt old enough to have watched him play.My pops used to tell me how clutch he was, what is ne ones thoughts?!?!?

This is a very good article from 2005 about Silas. Includes quotes from Silas and from coaches and players of his era.

http://20secondtimeout.blogspot.com/...commanded.html

Silas offers this scouting report: "Take Sam Cassell and combine him with Baron Davis--the strength and quickness of Davis combined with Sam's ability to get off any kind of shot. I really think that those two guys are closer to the way I played than anybody else that I’ve seen play in the league."

[Mel_13]

...we're the franchise with the 4th most les in the league and the 3rd winningnest in terms of percentage. Retiring role players jerseys is a damn joke.

The team with most NBA les disagrees:



Many roles players on that banner.

[bugoy]

i say no

[superbigtime]

I think Bruce's number has to be retired since Avery Johnson's is. Avery set the bar pretty low.

[HarlemHeat37]

I'd retire Bowen, even if Avery didn't get retired..what's wrong with some of you?..look at all the defensive teams and DPOY voting..the guy was a top 5 defender in the entire league, and the best perimeter defender in the entire league for most of his time as a Spur..he had a huge part in 3 les..what else can he do?..

There's just so many things in his favor in this argument..if players get in for strictly offense, then Bowen should get in for strictly defense, especially since we are a defense-first team..

[Solid D]

Over the course of 8 straight seasons (7 as a Spur), Bruce Bowen shared a list with star players decided by the 30 NBA Head Coaches.

2007-08
FIRST TEAM..................SECOND TEAM
Kevin Garnett, Boston.....Shane Battier, Houston
Kobe Bryant, LA Lakers...Chris Paul, New Orleans
Marcus Camby, Denver...Dwight Howard, Orlando
Bruce Bowen, San Antonio...Tayshaun Prince, Detroit
Tim Duncan, San Antonio..Raja Bell, Phoenix

2006-07
FIRST TEAM..................SECOND TEAM
Bruce Bowen, San Antonio..Ben Wallace, Chicago
Tim Duncan, San Antonio..Kirk Hinrich, Chicago
Marcus Camby, Denver.....Jason Kidd, New Jersey
Kobe Bryant, LA Lakers....Tayshaun Prince, Detroit
Raja Bell, Phoenix............Kevin Garnett, Minnesota

2005-06
FIRST TEAM..................SECOND TEAM
Bruce Bowen, San Antonio..Tim Duncan, San Antonio
Ben Wallace, Detroit...........Chauncey Billups, Detroit
Andrei Kirilenko, Utah..........Kevin Garnett, Minnesota
Ron Artest, Indiana.............Marcus Camby, Denver
Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers.....Tayshaun Prince, Detroit
Jason Kidd, New Jersey

2004-05
FIRST TEAM..................SECOND TEAM
Ben Wallace, Detroit............Tayshaun Prince, Detroit
Kevin Garnett, Minnesota.....Marcus Camby, Denver
Bruce Bowen, San Antonio..Chauncey Billups, Detroit
Tim Duncan, San Antonio.....Andrei Kirilenko, Utah
Larry Hughes, Washington....Jason Kidd, NJ
.......................................Dwyane Wade, Miami

2003-04
FIRST TEAM..................SECOND TEAM
Ron Artest, Indiana.............Andrei Kirilenko, Utah
Kevin Garnett, Minnesota.....Tim Duncan, San Antonio
Ben Wallace, Detroit...........Theo Ratliff, Portland
Bruce Bowen, San Antonio...Doug Christie, Sacramento
Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers.....Jason Kidd, New Jersey

2002-03
FIRST TEAM..................SECOND TEAM
Tim Duncan, San Antonio......Ron Artest, Indiana
Kevin Garnett, Minnesota......Bruce Bowen, San Antonio
Ben Wallace, Detroit............Shaquille O'Neal, L.A. Lakers
Doug Christie, Sacramento....Jason Kidd, New Jersey
Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers......Eric Snow, Philadelphia

2001-02
FIRST TEAM..................SECOND TEAM
Tim Duncan, San Antonio......Bruce Bowen, San Antonio
Kevin Garnett, Minnesota......Clifford Robinson, Detroit
Ben Wallace, Detroit............Dikembe Mutombo, Philadelphia
Gary Payton, Seattle...........Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers
Jason Kidd, New Jersey........Doug Christie, Sacamento

2000-01
FIRST TEAM..................SECOND TEAM
Tim Duncan, San Antonio...... Bruce Bowen, Miami
Kevin Garnett, Minnesota......P.J. Brown, Charlotte
Dikembe Mutombo, Phil-Atl....Shaquille O'Neal, L.A. Lakers
Gary Payton, Seattle............Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers
Jason Kidd, Phoenix..............Doug Christie, Sacamento

[jay014]

Avery set the bar pretty low.

According to Ginobili it as fans who supported A.J.

http://www.nba.com/spurs/features/be...e_numbers.html