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  1. #26
    The Legend Grows da_suns_fan's Avatar
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    2007-2008 w/o Shaq:
    23.2 points, 9.3 rebounds, 1.1 assists, 59.1 FG%

    2007-2008 w/ Shaq:
    28.5 points, 8.8 rebounds, 2.1 assists, 58.8 FG%

    Shaq wasn't detrimental to Amare. Terry Porter was. That's why his numbers went down last season.
    I agree that Terry Porter was detrimental to Amare, but he was detrimental to EVERYONE.

    Again, addition by subtraction.

    Now, if they could get just trade back Jason Richardson for Boris Diaw and Raja Bell.

  2. #27
    lol banned DUNCANownsKOBE2's Avatar
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    I still want to know where I said the Suns should have kept Shaq.

  3. #28
    Veteran mojorizen7's Avatar
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    This news officially marks the guarantee of the SUNS being stranded in No Man's Land for the next few years.
    For all of you sheep wearing SUNS jersey's that mean's NO LOTTERY and NO CHANCE at winning a le.
    ing joy.

  4. #29
    lol banned DUNCANownsKOBE2's Avatar
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    I agree that Terry Porter was detrimental to Amare, but he was detrimental to EVERYONE.

    My point is don't blame Shaq for Terry Porter's inability to know a player's strengths and weaknesses.

  5. #30
    The Legend Grows da_suns_fan's Avatar
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    My guess is you're probably no more than 3 years older than me.

    And even if I didn't remember that, I do remember Shaq winning one in 2006.
    I wish I was 21

    Well that makes sense then. See, by 2006, Shaq was already pretty washed up. He was a s of his former self but Miami was able to win a le IN SPITE of his poor play (and IIRC, he didnt have a very good finals at all).

    But from your point of view, thats all you know. You know that Shaq has won four les and you observed one of them. So Im assuming that you view Shaq now and believe he's always been this way.

  6. #31
    The Legend Grows da_suns_fan's Avatar
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    This news officially marks the guarantee of the SUNS being stranded in No Man's Land for the next few years.
    For all of you sheep wearing SUNS jersey's that mean's NO LOTTERY and NO CHANCE at winning a le.
    ing joy.
    Suns werent going to win any lottery picks this year anyway (Thanks Steve Kerr and the Sonics).

    btw - Love your sig. Ahh..the good old days. Interesting that Barkely looks slightly taller than Jordan in that pic (Ive always thought the claims that he was 6-4 were exaggerated).

  7. #32
    lol banned DUNCANownsKOBE2's Avatar
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    I wish I was 21

    Well that makes sense then. See, by 2006, Shaq was already pretty washed up. He was a s of his former self but Miami was able to win a le IN SPITE of his poor play (and IIRC, he didnt have a very good finals at all).

    There's no way Miami gets by Chicago w/o Shaq. You don't seem to remember the amount of double teams and defenses Avery Johnson threw at Shaq in 2006. They don't beat Dallas w/o Shaq.

    I'm still waiting to know where I said the Suns should have kept Shaq.

  8. #33
    Veteran mojorizen7's Avatar
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    I agree that Terry Porter was detrimental to Amare, but he was detrimental to EVERYONE.

    Again, addition by subtraction.

    Now, if they could get just trade back Jason Richardson for Boris Diaw and Raja Bell.
    YOu've got be ing kidding me...dude, YOU are the TARGET fan base and thats no joke. LOL

    "Feed me!....Entertain me!.....Offense! offense! offense!"


    Addition by subtraction would've also included trading Nash,JRich and telling Hill "thx but no thanks."

  9. #34
    lol banned DUNCANownsKOBE2's Avatar
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    I can't believe I'm arguing with somone who thinks Nash isn't a horrible a defender.

  10. #35
    Believe. kwamay_brown54's Avatar
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    IF used in the correct system, you can cover up Nash's deficiencies on defense. The lakers have won 4 les in the last decade with Derek Fisher as the starting PG. You think Phil Jackson didn't come up with schemes to provide help for the fishman? I did some analysis on Derek Fisher's defense over the span of 100 games during the 08/09 season. In those 100 games, I accounted for at least 1000 direct breakdowns by Derek Fisher which resulted in an assist or basket scored by his opposing player. If you average that out, it is close to 10 breakdowns per game, yet somehow the lakers still find a way to win it all.

  11. #36
    lol banned DUNCANownsKOBE2's Avatar
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    IF used in the correct system, you can cover up Nash's deficiencies on defense. The lakers have won 4 les in the last decade with Derek Fisher as the starting PG. You think Phil Jackson didn't come up with schemes to provide help for the fishman?
    1) Ron Harper was the starter in 2000 and 2001
    2) Fisher is nowhere near the defensive liability Nash is

  12. #37
    Veteran mojorizen7's Avatar
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    Suns werent going to win any lottery picks this year anyway (Thanks Steve Kerr and the Sonics).
    btw - Love your sig. Ahh..the good old days. Interesting that Barkely looks slightly taller than Jordan in that pic (Ive always thought the claims that he was 6-4 were exaggerated).
    True but thats sort of my point. SUNS probably could've retained a '10 pick thru some combination of moving Shaq/Nash/JRich....one would think.
    Instead they decided that due to the lack of one single 1st rd pick that rebuilding could wait another THREE years!?!?

    Dumb.

    OKC...let 'em have our lottery pick....we should be rebuilding...its not like an up & coming THUNDER team poses a threat to us if we're gonna be rebuilding anyway.
    it.

  13. #38
    lol banned DUNCANownsKOBE2's Avatar
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    true but thats sort of my point. Suns probably could've retained a '10 pick thru some combination of moving shaq/nash/jrich....one would think.
    Instead they decided that due to the lack of one single 1st rd pick that rebuilding could wait another three years!?!?

    Dumb.

    okc...let 'em have our lottery pick....we should be rebuilding...its not like an up & coming thunder team poses a threat to us if we're gonna be rebuilding anyway.
    it.

    +349342943

  14. #39
    Believe. kwamay_brown54's Avatar
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    Relax suns fans, you still live in a beautiful town, with great weather, amazing golf courses, and beautiful women. You could be in minnesota for christ sakes, imagine that.

  15. #40
    Banned
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    Fisher is nowhere near the defensive liability Nash is
    Really he is, DUNCAN, it's just not celebrated as such.

    We were just so blessed that Nelson was out. That more than anything else during the '09 playoffs saved our hash.

  16. #41
    Veteran mojorizen7's Avatar
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    IF used in the correct system, you can cover up Nash's deficiencies on defense. The lakers have won 4 les in the last decade with Derek Fisher as the starting PG. You think Phil Jackson didn't come up with schemes to provide help for the fishman? I did some analysis on Derek Fisher's defense over the span of 100 games during the 08/09 season. In those 100 games, I accounted for at least 1000 direct breakdowns by Derek Fisher which resulted in an assist or basket scored by his opposing player. If you average that out, it is close to 10 breakdowns per game, yet somehow the lakers still find a way to win it all.
    If you were to surround Nash with a defensive system and good defensive players then sure....you could prob hide Nashy's deficiancies.....but when has that ever been an option?

    The last time somebody tried to move in that direction the HC got canned.

  17. #42
    Banned
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    You could be in minnesota for christ sakes, imagine that.
    I was in Rochester a year ago and the restaurants were just unbelievable. The portions were humongous and so gd good. I'd go back just for a day trip to eat there.

  18. #43
    Believe. kwamay_brown54's Avatar
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    Really he is, DUNCAN, it's just not celebrated as such.

    We were just so blessed that Nelson was out. That more than anything else during the '09 playoffs saved our hash.

    It wasn't unitl game 4 of the 2008 finals until Phil finally figured out the proper adjustment of Kobe on rondo, and fisher on ray allen. By the time he figured this adjustment out, it was too late. Notice how much better the lakers did on 2/5/09 with the same lineup for both sides. Kobe on rondo and fish on ray allen changes the game entirely, go watch the tape.

  19. #44
    Veteran mojorizen7's Avatar
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    Relax suns fans, you still live in a beautiful town, with great weather, amazing golf courses, and beautiful women. You could be in minnesota for christ sakes, imagine that.
    Is there an NBA Fan exchange program? I'll take your summers and you can have our winters.
    At least your team knows how to get into the draft lottery when it's time to blow it up.

  20. #45
    The Legend Grows da_suns_fan's Avatar
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    If you were to surround Nash with a defensive system and good defensive players then sure....you could prob hide Nashy's deficiancies.....but when has that ever been an option?

    The last time somebody tried to move in that direction the HC got canned.

    * 10 ^ 10000000000000000000000000

    As if Terry Porter was fired for trying to put in a "defensive system".

    Thanks for that insight Mr. National talking-head who hasnt watched a single Suns game.

  21. #46
    Banned
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    It wasn't unitl game 4 of the 2008 finals until Phil finally figured out the proper adjustment of Kobe on rondo, and fisher on ray allen. By the time he figured this adjustment out, it was too late. Notice how much better the lakers did on 2/5/09 with the same lineup for both sides. Kobe on rondo and fish on ray allen changes the game entirely, go watch the tape.
    I'll have to take a ganders, kwamay. Thanks for the citation.

  22. #47
    The Legend Grows da_suns_fan's Avatar
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    I can't believe I'm arguing with somone who thinks Nash isn't a horrible a defender.
    Um...when did I say that?

    I said that Nash once led the league in charges taken. So while he's a poor one-on-one defender, he at least is willing to sacrifice his body to help his team time and time again.

    Thats opposed to Shaq, who stands there in cement boots and might just push you if you get too close. You'll get free throws (and the idiot Suns fans like DUNCANOwnsKobe will cheer in admiration) but at least Shaq looks cool.

  23. #48
    Based dirk4mvp's Avatar
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    Relax suns fans, you still live in a beautiful town, with great weather, amazing golf courses, and beautiful women. You could be in minnesota for christ sakes, imagine that.
    Memphis has it's advantages too. Like hobos hanging around beale.

  24. #49
    Veteran mojorizen7's Avatar
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    Memphis has it's advantages too. Like hobos hanging around beale.
    I've got family in Memphis.
    Beale St Blues baby .
    Then there's that Mudd Island thing.....

  25. #50
    Believe. kwamay_brown54's Avatar
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    From the suns game I watched on league pass during the 08/09 season, I noticed that they implemented a zone scheme from time to time, and it was actually quite effective. If the suns get better coaching and schemes, they can definitely improve on defense. Man to man defense with nash on the peremiter and amare providing help as the lone big man is a recipe for disaster before the ball is even tipped.

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