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Soooo what was your favorite Cro Cop memory?
In the wake of his loss to Junior dos Santos, Mirko “Cro Cop” Filipovic told the world that the places in his mind once filled with a focus on kicking opponents in the head had been replaced by thoughts of fishing in Privlaka.
Given the dismal turn the former K-1 standout's career has taken in the last two years, it comes as little surprise that he's thinking about calling it quits. Nonetheless, the stark and one-sided beating he took from the Brazilian heavyweight prospect last Saturday at UFC 103 has led to fans and pundits alike wondering how we came to this point, where MMA's formerly most feared striker has been relegated to a disappointing also-ran in a division he was supposed to reign over with impunity.
The answer is much less simple than you might think.
Most discussion of his decline has centered on the physical, which is understandable, as it is certainly the most visible component. It is important to consider why Cro Cop was seen as the ideal K-1 fighter to cross over into MMA in the first place: While he was never a large heavyweight, he's always been a physical specimen, and not just in a superficial beach muscles sense, though obviously the size of his legs goes without saying. Rather, he was explosive and athletic in a way that even far superior K-1 contemporaries like Peter Aerts and Ernesto Hoost were not. This made him far more apt to tussling with potent wrestlers and capitalizing on the hunt-and-kill nature of MMA -- a nature that suited his striking style better than styles based on volume and workrate.
There can be no doubt those physical attributes that made him the posterboy for K-1 converts have diminished. His reflex and strike speed lags, and he struggles to explode away from the clinch as he once was able to when desperate fighters latched onto him. Though some are quick to say that Filipovic is "only 35," that misses the fact that age -- especially in MMA -- is extremely relative.
"You're only as young as you feel" sounds like a hollow line from a dental adhesive or margarine commercial, but it couldn't be more true in this sport. While Randy Couture is constantly used as MMA's refutation of aging, "The Natural" started MMA 12 years ago at age 33 after a fairly healthy wrestling career. Cro Cop has been training and fighting for nearly two decades at this point, and it has taken its toll on him. In recent years, he's had surgeries up and down his body to fix nagging issues from a deviated septum to a busted foot to a faulty elbow to nagging knees. That process isn't about to stop, and if anything, it will only exacerbate. Prizefighters are like porn stars: When it's gone, it's gone. You might have another stellar scene or two, but you're sure as not going to sweep the AVNs.
But it's wrong to view Cro Cop's current predicament strictly as a product of wear-and-tear. If anything, his physical depreciation has served to highlight the technical flaws of his game that have always been present and often ignored.
Part of what has been difficult for fans to digest is that he hasn't just looked awful as of late: He's looked awful on the feet despite being hailed as the greatest striker in the sport for years. However, s in the armor have always been present. Apart from his bouts with Mark Hunt, the southpaw Cro Cop has circled left on orthodox fighters since his K-1 days. Circling into your opponent’s power tends to be a major no-no, but it has always given Cro Cop the best chance to land his left cross and left head kick, by far his two best weapons. When fighters with real striking skills have opted to be aggressive against him, though, he's suffered as a result.
He walked into Fedor Emelianenko's right hook repeatedly, and shortly after, barrages of left hooks followed. Hunt's right found him repeatedly in their MMA rematch. While people remember the Cheick Kongo bout for Cro Cop's testicles being battered, the Frenchman dominated latter proceedings with his right cross and right kicks to Cro Cop's exposed body. In one of the most brutal starchings the sport has ever seen, he walked right into Gabriel Gonzaga's shin at skull-level. And Saturday night, Junior dos Santos pelted him with both hands, but especially rights.
Compound this issue with the fact that he generally struggles going backward. At his finest, Cro Cop was less the tiger he was once nicknamed for and more akin to a shark, circling opponents quickly at short range. Watch the Nogueira bout to see the ideal range and movement for his attack; it is little coincidence that he displayed nearly all of his offensive weapons in that bout's first round. When forced backward, his primary weapon to halt opponents was his left cross -- the same punch that destroyed Bob Sapp and got the wrecking ball rolling on Wanderlei Silva in their second bout. However, from Hoost to Cigano, when opponents are fleet enough to avoid the punch, or stay close enough to stifle it, he's less a fighter and more a cornerback.
Maybe most critically of all, for all his striking a en, Cro Cop has never been a quality counterstriker. At his best, whether in K-1 or MMA, he attacked first, hurt his foe, then finished the job. When ambushed, he's always pushed opponents away and circled out wide to reset. Even against Josh Barnett, whose game plan in their second bout was haphazard punch-swarming to set up the clinch, Cro Cop was still almost entirely defensive. Even his punches on Sapp and Silva were not really pure counters as much as fighters walking directly at him with their hands down.
The point about counterpunching is especially relevant, as it is the method through which the cleanest chances for damaging blows in combat sports are created. It is no coincidence that virtually all of the top fighters in the sport right now are adroit at either slipping punches to counter (Emelianenko, Penn) or parrying punches to counter (Machida, Rampage). At this stage in the sport, it's not good enough to just endlessly circle left, hoping to set up a roundhouse kick to the dome.
Soooo what was your favorite Cro Cop memory?
When he lost to Fedor. (im a fan, just that i always recall those fights when i think of cro cop..)
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I was just talking about this same thing with friend of mine the other day. Crocop it just too limited in his skills to compete in today's MMA. It's not much different with fighters like Chuck Liddell, Cheick Congo and Matt Hughes...and it will ultimately be the downfall of Brock Lesnar. Fighters like GSP, Anderson Silva and BJ Penn have extended reigns of dominance for a reason...they are exceptional at one thing and very good at everything else.
Well if a one thing so what is GSP best mma thing? Wrestling?
It's the whole skillset that matters right now. Everything getting mixed up, and that's the beauty and that what will make this sport even better it has so many ways to grow and make adjustements that it will be all fun to watch that pocess.
Mirko as a fighter should stay at K-1 formula. He is dangeous there and should consider to take a look at him one more time and decide.
My favorite Cro Cop moment was the Wandy fight.
Evan should have some nice contributions to this thread..
This is a good one for me that's for sure...
Past the wrestling something people don't talk about with GSP is his gas tank, which i believe is the best in all of MMA. His pace is insane and nobody is able to keep up with his volume of activity along with his great skill level in all areas.
He'd still be at or close to the top of the division if he was in his prime. He's older, has had a lot of fights and and not as sharp. In MMA today all it takes is to drop off this much and you are on the way out..
What makes you think Brock won't continue to get better in all areas? He's one of the best athletes to ever compete in MMA and he has a killer work ethic..It's not much different with fighters like Chuck Liddell, Cheick Congo and Matt Hughes...and it will ultimately be the downfall of Brock Lesnar.
His strength. He is bar none the strongest 175 fighter in the game. It's truly unbelievable how easily he can control fighters that are much bigger than him.
Oh he'd still be good...but I'd take prime Couture over prime Crocop pretty easily. Frank Mir before the accident would also own Crocop.He'd still be at or close to the top of the division if he was in his prime. He's older, has had a lot of fights and and not as sharp. In MMA today all it takes is to drop off this much and you are on the way out..
Lots of fighters have great work ethic. Sean Sherk is also an exceptional athlete and his training regimen is one of the sickest things I have ever seen. As soon as Brock sees a heavyweight that is a good technical striker and can stay away from his take downs he is finished. Watching Dos Santos' striking ability makes me wonder if he might be that guy.....What makes you think Brock won't continue to get better in all areas? He's one of the best athletes to ever compete in MMA and he has a killer work ethic..
Meh Sherk is not that great an athlete, he just has a great physique. He's not that fast and has no real power in his hands. When he fought GSP, he got tossed all over the Octagon like a rag-doll. BJ out-boxed him until he was a bloody mess.. Brock is a freak for his size, he moves like 205 ers and weighs like 280 on fight night..
We'll see what happens in the Carwin fight, Brock is going to keep improving, he has every fight so far, no reason to believe he won't keep getting better..As soon as Brock sees a heavyweight that is a good technical striker and can stay away from his take downs he is finished. Watching Dos Santos' striking ability makes me wonder if he might be that guy.....
Did you see his All Access? The caveman training he was doing was ridiculous. It's not like he is one of those weight lifting guys that just looks at himself in the mirror. He has exceptional cardio and he used it many times to outlast his opponents....until, as you said, he got into the octagon with fighters that possessed superior skills. Sherk won a light of fights at LW because he was bigger and stronger than all the rest of the LW fighters. Right now Lesnar is simply Sherk in a bigger body.
Lesnar is quick for his size...but I think it's a bit of a stretch to say he moves like a 205lber. He will likely wind up like Matt Hughes...a strong wrestler that uses his power to have his way in the division until a well rounded fighter comes along and takes him out. The one thing that Lesnar has over Hughes right now is that there is not much compe ion out there.
The difference between Sherk and Lesnar, at least in my eyes, is that Sherk's not some physical freak. Sure, he's got a great work-ethic and squeezes out just about every drop of his potential because of it, but he's a stubby wrestler with no jaw-dropping speed in his hands or feet.
The guy's a damn good wrestler and a of a professional who possesses a great drive and motor. And while those attributes will make you plenty successful in the octagon, they alone won't be enough to overtake the truly gifted and freakish-types at the most elite level. You might win a belt or beat someone on a given night, but, as witnessed by Sherk's career, you won't be in for any sustained dominance.
The thing about Lesnar, besides his WWE D-Bagness, is he really is one of the most freakish athletes you're ever going to see in MMA. At 6-3'' and around 280, by the time he steps in the octagon, he shoots and explodes with an amount of speed and power that's just never been seen before. But it's not just about his wrestling. Have you seen what happens when those canned ham's of his get anywhere near their mark? It's like the guy's playing darts with a sledge hammer; sure it might not be the most accurate but you're bound to find the mark with some piece of it.
And the other thing that he's got going for him, is that he's not freakish when it comes to his height. He doesn't gas and have the huge cardio problems that usually comes with the taller fighters. And if you have a gorilla like Lesnar whose got both a great wrestling base and work-ethic, combined with freakish speed and power -- that he can utilize in both his ground game and standup -- that's the type of fighter who can sustain dominance.
MMA heavyweights are just lucky he's come to the game as late as he has. Because if all the tools he possesses isn't scary enough, the fact that he has the drive, mean-streak and toughness on top of it sure as is.
The Lesnar-Carwin fight looks to be something that should take place in a comic book, given their physique's, but I'm really looking forward to see if Brock continues to progress and get better in the same way he's done each fight prior.
Sorry, Mirko...
Didn't mean to hijack your tribute thread.
I was thinking the same thing, more Lesnar talk we should probably take in here...
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65726
Leave this for Mirko
Sorry for the hijack...didn't mean to get off track.
To each his own. We will see what happens with Lesnar...perhaps he will prove me wrong. Let him beat someone that is technically sound and not washed up. Until then he is just another guy that is bigger and stronger than everyone else in his division.
Question for everyone: Do ya still consider Mirko the 'king without a crown'? I still do.
The Pride Open Weight GP seemed like a gift to him. Wiping out Wanderlei and Barnett on the same night is no joke, but his path to the finals was by far the easiest. Minowa and Yoshida are tough, but were way out of their league.
It's unfortunate he was introduced to casual US MMA fans as he was on the decline. People forget how much of a beast this dude was.
That was always my position too...
and Fedor was injured...
Ahh.. the memories.
Unfortunately, that's how many UFC fans will remember (and know) him...
So you're not a CC fan, oligarchy??
Last edited by LEONARD; 09-29-2009 at 02:54 PM.
He was fun to watch in Pride, but he falls into that mythical "great" Pride fighters category.
Oh, I see...
Who joins him?
I'm going to start a mystical great UFC fighters category too...
Rich Franklin
Evan Tanner
Ken Shamrock
Royce Gracie
Last edited by LEONARD; 09-29-2009 at 04:40 PM.
Yes. It's exactly the same. People said those fighters were going to beat everyone in their division. Good call. Always insightful!
Anderson Silva
True...and they're not Croatian either...how could I have been so stupid...Yes. It's exactly the same. People said those fighters were going to beat everyone in their division. Good call. Always insightful!
Something tells me you were on the CC bandwagon when he came to the UFC but since he flamed out it's cool to post a gif of him getting KO'd and pretend like that was one of the best moments for you personally...
I stand by my point...
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