(1502 pages)Finance Committee bill has been filed

[SouthernFried]

Are you sure he's not going to try to save the Galaxy in Orion's belt?

Probably cost us less than the healthcare bill will.

Damn, On topic yet again!!!

[Wild Cobra]

I just figured because what Obama and the democrats wants is fiction, and will destroy the USA as the leading nation, it applied.

I couldn't find a clip in English, but for the rare few who don't get the reference, Orion is a cat in "Men in Black." Our solar system is in the Orion Belt of the Milky Way (our galaxy.) This is contrary to what the dying alien said, "the galaxy is located in Orion's belt." Their mission was to save the galaxy, which turned out to be the marble like sphere around Orion's neck, that contains our galaxy!



The democrats making anything better like health care is pure fiction.

[Wild Cobra]

How many of you may lose there employer health care before this legislation can go into effect. Part of the way they get by with scoring the cost, is relying on things remaining the same. How many employers will reduce or drop coverage? I'm sure that my insurance costs my employer more than the $8,000 annually, and therefor subject to a 40% tax on it. Section 6001 places that 40% excise tax on likely most health care plans offered by corporations and small businesses. The level is $8,000 for individual plans and $21,000 for family plans. It won't hurt as many of the family plans, but those who are single could get screwed.

How about the rest of you? Do any of you realize just how much your employer pays for your health care?

[ElNono]

How about the rest of you? Do any of you realize just how much your employer pays for your health care?

I know mine pays zero. But I'm in the minority here...

[Wild Cobra]

I know mine pays zero. But I'm in the minority here...

So you have no employer health care?

[spursncowboys]

chimp what you gotta understand here, is that it's not that people don't wanna answer your questions. It's they're just ignoring you, like say when you get a pimple on your ass annoying but of no real consequence.

+1

[ElNono]

So you have no employer health care?

Yeah

[spursncowboys]

Yeah

I have socialized healthcare already. I love it. If I need to go to the ER, I expect 8 to 15 hour wait. If I need to see my doctor, I have to call an appointment line and get an appointment. After a few months I get to see the doctor to get a referral to see a real doctor(another appointment and a few months later) and I get the doctor on call. He prescribes me what is in the pharmacy.

[ElNono]

I have socialized healthcare already. I love it. If I need to go to the ER, I expect 8 to 15 hour wait. If I need to see my doctor, I have to call an appointment line and get an appointment. After a few months I get to see the doctor to get a referral to see a real doctor(another appointment and a few months later) and I get the doctor on call. He prescribes me what is in the pharmacy.

That's funny, because I just came back from a country with socialized healthcare (I actually went there to do a treatment my wife's insurance didn't want to pay for, and we couldn't afford otherwise).The entire treatment time was exactly the same as here in the US. We also could reach the doctor's assistants by phone at any time. Our longest wait time was about 15 minutes. We paid out of pocket. It cost 1/3 of the price of the treatment here in the US, including plane tickets and drugs. Funnily enough the drugs were imported from the US and UK and yet they cost 1/3 of what they cost here in NJ.

Now, that doesn't imply that this thing they're trying to pass will do that for us. But I wanted to relay the experience for guys like you that talk out of their asses without having experienced anything other than the current system.

[Wild Cobra]

Yeah

Sorry to hear that, but that's between you and your employer. The public should not be forced to give you more than basic needs.

[ElNono]

Sorry to hear that, but that's between you and your employer. The public should not be forced to give you more than basic needs.

The thing is, both you and I most likely do not agree what 'basic needs' is.
It's what most of this debate centers around.

[spursncowboys]

That's funny, because I just came back from a country with socialized healthcare (I actually went there to do a treatment my wife's insurance didn't want to pay for, and we couldn't afford otherwise).The entire treatment time was exactly the same as here in the US. We also could reach the doctor's assistants by phone at any time. Our longest wait time was about 15 minutes. We paid out of pocket. It cost 1/3 of the price of the treatment here in the US, including plane tickets and drugs. Funnily enough the drugs were imported from the US and UK and yet they cost 1/3 of what they cost here in NJ.

Now, that doesn't imply that this thing they're trying to pass will do that for us. But I wanted to relay the experience for guys like you that talk out of their asses without having experienced anything other than the current system.

WHat country? Did you make plans ahead of time? If so how long. Obama needs to study that country. That is funny how I can (or could) buy meds from Canada or Mexico and with all the s&h, it is ridiculously cheaper. I wonder why that is.

[Wild Cobra]

WHat country? Did you make plans ahead of time? If so how long. Obama needs to study that country. That is funny how I can (or could) buy meds from Canada or Mexico and with all the s&h, it is ridiculously cheaper. I wonder why that is.

I'll bet they don't have trial lawyers with ridiculous payouts...

[ElNono]

WHat country? Did you make plans ahead of time? If so how long. Obama needs to study that country. That is funny how I can (or could) buy meds from Canada or Mexico and with all the s&h, it is ridiculously cheaper. I wonder why that is.

Argentina actually. We made plans about 10 days before going, once we found out about the prices. Actually getting plane tickets at a reasonable price was more complicated than getting an appointment with the doctor.

I don't think Obama needs to study much, considering that's how healthcare works in pretty much in the rest of the world (and this is a 3rd world country I went to). Perhaps you're the one that needs to do the studying?

And FWIW, we ran across 2 more american couples while we were there doing the same thing...

[ElNono]

I'll bet they don't have trial lawyers with ridiculous payouts...

My cousin is a lawyer there, so I can tell you we do have them... the ridiculous payout part is where you might be onto something.

The one other thing is that access to healthcare is a cons utionally guaranteed right.

[ChumpDumper]

I'll bet they don't have trial lawyers with ridiculous payouts...

You know, we've had medical tort reform for awhile in Texas. Maybe you guys could tell me how much it has reduced health care costs.

[Winehole23]

You know, we've had medical tort reform for awhile in Texas.

I mentioned this to WC the other day. He says we did it wrong.

The AMA opinion: http://www.ama-assn.org/amednews/200...5/edsa0915.htm

There are more doctors and more specialists practicing in Texas now, and for them, liability insurance costs have come down.

I'm still looking for a source that verifies doctors have passed on their reduced cost of doing business to Texans....

[Winehole23]

This article suggests that singling out malpractice litigation as a big cost driver is mistaken.

[Winehole23]

Indeed, lost in this debate is the actual cost of the malpractice itself, not the cost of defending lawsuits or defensive medicine. The cost of malpractice I am referring to is the increased health care costs associated with medical error. Is the Congressional Budget Office adding up the medical bills of patients sentenced to a lifetime on ventilators, in wheelchairs, or in need of expensive surgeries due to medical malpractice? If 98,000 Americans die each year due to preventable medical error, how many of them endured high cost medical interventions as a result of the medical mistakes? How many more Americans survived the malpractice only to find themselves facing a lifetime of exorbitant medical costs due to the catastrophic injury they never would have suffered but for medical malpractice? According to a recent Harvard study, only 12% of injured patients or their families sue. This suggests that most often (88% of the time), private insurance or the government is left to foot the bill for the astronomical, unnecessary costs hoisted upon malpractice victims.

http://healthnewsdigest.com/news/Gue..._printer.shtml

[spursncowboys]

I mentioned this to WC the other day. He says we did it wrong.

The AMA opinion: http://www.ama-assn.org/amednews/200...5/edsa0915.htm

There are more doctors and more specialists practicing in Texas now, and for them, liability insurance costs have come down.

I'm still looking for a source that verifies doctors have passed on their reduced cost of doing business to Texans....

There was a WSJ article about a year ago, that talked about all the benefits Texas has compared to TN for having this reform. How we have more Dr.'s here, in which brings more choice and compe ion which lowers cost, etc. All benefits toward us the consumer. I will try and find it but do not have a subscription anymore so probably won't get it. It was pretty good.

[George Gervin's Afro]

You know, we've had medical tort reform for awhile in Texas. Maybe you guys could tell me how much it has reduced health care costs.

This is a question that is always ignored..that's weird.

[ChumpDumper]

This is a question that is always ignored..that's weird.

I know, the only thing we get is that there are now more doctors in Texas who are less afraid to be sued -- if that is in fact a good thing -- and that greater supply must mean lower costs.

I'm just asking if it actually has lowered health care costs for consumers.

Surely the proponents of tort reform have been following the Texas case closely to bolster their arguments to do the same elsewhere.

[George Gervin's Afro]

I know, the only thing we get is that there are now more doctors in Texas who are less afraid to be sued -- if that is in fact a good thing -- and that greater supply must mean lower costs.

I'm just asking if it actually has lowered health care costs for consumers.

Surely the proponents of tort reform have been following the Texas case closely to bolster their arguments to do the same elsewhere.

crickets..

[Winehole23]

There was a WSJ article about a year ago, that talked about all the benefits Texas has compared to TN for having this reform. How we have more Dr.'s here, in which brings more choice and compe ion which lowers cost, etc.

I couldn't find any source that says cost to the health care consumer in Texas has come down post tort reform.

[Wild Cobra]

I couldn't find any source that says cost to the health care consumer in Texas has come down post tort reform.

Wouldn't it be hard to say?

Costs are going up and up and up. How would you tell if it went up less than it otherwise would, in such a chaotic market? Tell me, at such drastic increases, you didn't actually expect costs to come down? I think raising less than otherwise is a win, but again, how do you know?

Apparently, tort reform did help some in Texas. After-all, it was passed partially for the need to bring specialties back that have left. It apparently made that goal.