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  1. #51
    Rising above the Fray spursncowboys's Avatar
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    So he's even more of a chicken because he didn't want to go into the military during peace time? I'll take that.
    what war have you served in?

    Did he advise Bush to go to war with Iraq? Yes or no.
    your opinion that iraq is an unnecessary war.

    like Cheney?
    Who said this?
    don't take my comment out of context. It's a pretty well used line stating over 100000 iraqi civilians killed by americans. I've heard this a few times on st.

    That's not how this works. We don't like it because Cheney was deferred and then advised his boss to start an unnecessary war. Try and keep up.
    try and use something besides your feelings.
    Are you really so partisan you'll defend someone who NEVER fought in battle over a man who did and was wounded in battle? You don't need to answer because I already know what you'll say.
    what does his veteran status have to do with him making decisions for what is best for the future of this country? If he dodged the war like clinton, then I would say that is wrong, for one it is illegal. If he did what you were supposed to do instead of going to war then what's the deal? We have been at war for over seven years, none of you guys chose to go. If this is a debate on the merits of loopholes toward selective service, that would be one thing. This is about the vietnam war, where the dem president before obama dodged the draft.
    Ok.
    Yet he rarely listened to them. Funny.
    More than what/who? Plus he should visit them a lot since he sent them to a place they didn't need to be
    Was it a stop off for a crawford family vacation?
    Ok. I'd be surprised if there was a president who didn't do this.
    Good. I'm glad he did that. If only he wouldn't have sent them to Iraq in the first place.
    What was real? What the are you talking about?

    Defending it from what exactly?
    No it isn't. If you believe you should get 5 deferments from war, maybe you shouldn't be so eager to start one.
    so all the isolationists who thought we shouldn't be involved in other countrie's wars, should not be able to change their mind when hitler was marching through europe and japan was enslaving southeast asia? what was real is that is what obama said. There is no present day reason why america should be at war for people like you.

  2. #52
    United Autodidact Society Shastafarian's Avatar
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    what war have you served in?
    None. Then again I haven't advised a President to start a war either.

    your opinion that iraq is an unnecessary war.
    I see it's your opinion it was necessary. Funny.

    don't take my comment out of context. It's a pretty well used line stating over 100000 iraqi civilians killed by americans. I've heard this a few times on st.
    Ah the Wild Cobra line of evidence. Have a link? Have I ever made this claim? Has anyone besides boutons?

    try and use something besides your feelings.
    ???
    what does his veteran status have to do with him making decisions for what is best for the future of this country?
    It has a lot to do with it when they seek 5, count 'em 5, deferments and then are involved in the engagement of two wars in one term.
    If he dodged the war like clinton,
    He did dodge the war.
    then I would say that is wrong, for one it is illegal.
    Are you saying Bill Clinton is a criminal?
    If he did what you were supposed to do instead of going to war then what's the deal?
    The deal is what he did with his life afterward. Is it that hard to understand?
    We have been at war for over seven years, none of you guys chose to go.
    No, Cheney and the former administration chose to go.
    If this is a debate on the merits of loopholes toward selective service, that would be one thing. This is about the vietnam war, where the dem president before obama dodged the draft.
    He also didn't start a war with Iraq.
    so all the isolationists who thought we shouldn't be involved in other countrie's wars, should not be able to change their mind when hitler was marching through europe and japan was enslaving southeast asia?
    Ok. Along those same lines, should we go into Darfur? Should we have gone into Rwanda? You know which country we really need to invade? North Korea. Because after all, that nation is led by a dictator who imposes the worst conditions on his people, often killing them. You signing up?
    what was real is that is what obama said.
    WHAT THE ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? I feel like I'm talking to a wall. Are you trying to say that Obama said it didn't hit him that he was president (in wartime) until he started signing letters to families of KIA soldiers? Is that what you're trying, and failing, to get across?
    There is no present day reason why america should be at war for people like you.
    Sure there is. It just shouldn't be done for revenge and/or to make your buddies rich.

  3. #53
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    Board conservatives are just too insane for me to get used too. Defending Cheney's deferments out of one side of your mouths while calling Obama s for looking upon the returning caskets of dead soldiers? You people are so ed up.

  4. #54
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Because he had 3 deferments that were not based on attending undergraduate ins utions. Basically he found every way possible to get out of going to war. I can't say I blame him because hey, who wants to die right? Only problem is he loves starting wars and doesn't seem to care who dies (unless it's him) in the process.
    You know, his previous deferment was still good. Do you understand the concept of a "status change?" This was normal to get a deferment paper to sign in college. I'll bet almost every college student did just that. First deferment.. Changed schools twice, two more deferments, married, defermet, baby, deferemt. In reality, the only deferment that counts is the first 1963 deferment, before any talk of such war. The other four were required status changes.
    Are you really questioning his motives for getting 5 deferments? You think he was just like, "Eh the war will be there when I'm done. I can't wait to fight some slant eyes!"
    Are you telling me it is normal for a young man to want to go to war, rather than persuing a promising career garenteed by college at the time?

    My God... That would be so stupid! Is that your line of thinking, or would you stay in college?
    Cheney's Five Draft Deferments During the Vietnam Era Emerge as a Campaign Issue
    It's not a bad thing. We just don't like people who get deferments then start unnecessary wars.
    You make it out to be. You see, even though Cheney hasn't had any actual military service, he knows the deal. He was Ford's Chief of Staff, and Bush(41)'s Secretary of defense. I was in the Army then and still have great respect for the man from his policies when I served.
    Let me get this straight. You're defending Cheney for NEVER going into battle and getting 5 deferments, when 2 of those had nothing to do with school (getting married lol). But Kerry, who actually went to war and was involved in battle, seeks a deferment for school and you say it's a vacation deferment. Are you a real person? I'm just curious.
    Kerry knew he would be drafted because of his lottery number. He joined the Navel reserves so he would be in a unit less likely to be in combat and as an officer should he have to go. He specifically joined a reserve "Swift Boat" unit to avoid combat. However, the SWIFT missions changed. Anyway, without volenteerring as a skipper, he likely would have been drafted into an infantry combat unit as a grunt.
    Cheney never going to war and seeking 5 deferments is a pretty good counter example. Oh and the fact that neither Bush nor Cheney visited Dover yet Liz Cheney feels she can criticize Obama for bringing cameras to Dover. That's a good counter "example".
    Why should anyone visit Dover? Any time a president visits anywhere, it's a nightmare on the local traffic conditions. This was for nothing but show. If he really respected the service men, he would have only bothered with the funerals.

    Is he going there? Maybe he dicided this was an easy-out for him.
    So he's even more of a chicken because he didn't want to go into the military during peace time? I'll take that.
    I don't call anyone a chicken for not wanting to serve. In fact, you have to be really dedicated to have a great education, then join just to be part of it. The military is a hard lifestyle.
    Did he advise Bush to go to war with Iraq? Yes or no.
    Most likely so. Remember, he was also Secretary of Defense during desert Storm.
    That's not how this works. We don't like it because Cheney was deferred and then advised his boss to start an unnecessary war. Try and keep up.
    So you don't like any of the 60% of those born in the 40's that went to college, married, or had children who got deferments, then believe in a strong USA defense.
    Are you really so partisan you'll defend someone who NEVER fought in battle over a man who did and was wounded in battle? You don't need to answer because I already know what you'll say.
    The extent of Kerry's injuries were superficial. He could be called a coward, ordering his ship away from battle in one instance. He was also stupid. Maybe not a coward. in one instance, he ordered the boat beached, to persue an enemy. He almost got himself and crew killed by violating standing procedure. His commander was split between courtmartialling him, and giving him a medal. If he wasn't a friend of the Kennedy family, I'll bet he would have been court marstialled. Instead, he recieved a Silver Star.

    His doctor's account of the first injury:

    Some of his crew confided that they did not receive any fire from shore, but that Kerry had fired a mortar round at close range to some rocks on shore. The crewman thought that the injury was caused by a fragment ricocheting from that mortar round when it struck the rocks.

    That seemed to fit the injury which I treated.

    What I saw was a small piece of metal sticking very superficially in the skin of Kerry's arm. The metal fragment measured about 1 cm. in length and was about 2 or 3 mm in diameter. It certainly did not look like a round from a rifle.

    I simply removed the piece of metal by lifting it out of the skin with forceps. I doubt that it penetrated more than 3 or 4 mm. It did not require probing to find it, did not require any anesthesia to remove it, and did not require any sutures to close the wound.

    The wound was covered with a bandaid.
    His second Purple Heart was the only legitamate one in most military people's eyes.

    Kerry's third Purple Heart and Bronze Star:
    Two injuries – a small bruise on his right arm and a minor injury to his buttocks – won Kerry his Third Purple Heart and a trip home. However, the vets say, the wound to his buttocks was self-inflicted and should never have received Purple Heart consideration.

    While Kerry claims the injury came from shrapnel from an underwater mine, Larry Thurlow, an officer on shore with Kerry that day, insists the wound was the result of Kerry's decision to throw a concussion grenade into a rice pile. The "shrapnel," he says, was actually rice pellets.

    As further evidence, the vets say, Kerry himself reflected in his own journal that his buttocks' wound came, not from a mine but, rather, from a grenade tossed into a rice cache.

    Sworn statements of those present say there was no hostile fire involved in this incident for which Kerry received his third Purple Heart and the coveted Bronze Star.

    "The conclusion is inescapable: that Kerry lied by reporting to the Navy that he had been wounded by shrapnel in his backside from an enemy mine when in reality he negligently wounded himself and then lied about the wound in order to secure a third Purple Heart and a quick trip home," reads the letter.
    I don't care how much you liberals try to make him out as a volenteer soldier or a hero. He wasn't really either.
    You know who visited the troops more in any year of his presidency? bush.
    More than what/who? Plus he should visit them a lot since he sent them to a place they didn't need to be
    Funny how Obama only wants to visit when it's a photo-op, but republicans will go without the cameras.
    Was it a stop off for a crawford family vacation?
    Funny how one of the reported vacations wasn't. They were remodeling the White House!
    Defending it from what exactly?
    No it isn't. If you believe you should get 5 deferments from war, maybe you shouldn't be so eager to start one.
    One deferment and four status changes you mean?
    None. Then again I haven't advised a President to start a war either.
    have you thought about enlisting?
    Ah the Wild Cobra line of evidence. Have a link? Have I ever made this claim? Has anyone besides boutons?
    Exagerations on top of exagerations. There is proof out there, I posted maybe two years ago, about the same man in many pictures. It has also been shown that when an enemy combatant dies, that their fellow un-uniformed combatants will take all their weaposns and leave...

    It's magic...

    Instant civilian!
    It has a lot to do with it when they seek 5, count 'em 5, deferments and then are involved in the engagement of two wars in one term.
    He did dodge the war.
    Reduce the chance of being drafted. Yes. Dodge it. No.
    Are you saying Bill Clinton is a criminal?
    The deal is what he did with his life afterward. Is it that hard to understand?
    No, Cheney and the former administration chose to go.
    He also didn't start a war with Iraq.
    If anyone was a draft dodger, it was Clinton. The assumption he gave that he would join ROTC kept him out of a draft status, without a deferment. Clinton also effectively did start that war. He signed the legislation that said we would do regime change.
    Ok. Along those same lines, should we go into Darfur? Should we have gone into Rwanda? You know which country we really need to invade? North Korea. Because after all, that nation is led by a dictator who imposes the worst conditions on his people, often killing them. You signing up?
    Why? What threat are they to us?
    WHAT THE ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? I feel like I'm talking to a wall. Are you trying to say that Obama said it didn't hit him that he was president (in wartime) until he started signing letters to families of KIA soldiers? Is that what you're trying, and failing, to get across?
    I'd personally like to know what Obama is thinking. He sure isn't doing anything to help our troops out.

  5. #55
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Board conservatives are just too insane for me to get used too. Defending Cheney's deferments out of one side of your mouths while calling Obama s for looking upon the returning caskets of dead soldiers? You people are so ed up.
    Deferemnts were normal procedures for college students. A photo-op with caskets is very tacky.

  6. #56
    Rising above the Fray spursncowboys's Avatar
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    People have asked me, when did it hit you that you are now president? And what I told them was the most sobering moment is signing letters to the families of our fallen heroes. It reminds you of the responsibilities that you carry in this office and -- and the consequences of the decisions that you make.
    BARACK OBAMA, press conference, Feb. 9, 2009

  7. #57
    Rising above the Fray spursncowboys's Avatar
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    Board conservatives are just too insane for me to get used too. Defending Cheney's deferments out of one side of your mouths while calling Obama s for looking upon the returning caskets of dead soldiers? You people are so ed up.
    Maybe if he did it when his poll numbers weren't down spiraling, or if he had a plan for the servicepersons in harms way. Since he has been in office he has screwed the military over and over.

  8. #58
    keep asking questions George Gervin's Afro's Avatar
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    Maybe if he did it when his poll numbers weren't down spiraling, or if he had a plan for the servicepersons in harms way. Since he has been in office he has screwed the military over and over.
    GOd your stupid.. I have NEVER put anyone on ignore but your ignorance is wearing thin..

  9. #59
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    Maybe if he did it when his poll numbers weren't down spiraling, or if he had a plan for the servicepersons in harms way. Since he has been in office he has screwed the military over and over.
    Please don't ever talk to me or respond to any of my posts, ever. You are dumber than a rock and I'm not interested in anything you have to say. I believe you're a sub-human form of life and I don't ever want to have anything to do with you, your insane thoughts or your supremely low intellect ever again. Go to .

  10. #60
    keep asking questions George Gervin's Afro's Avatar
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    Maybe if he did it when his poll numbers weren't down spiraling, or if he had a plan for the servicepersons in harms way. Since he has been in office he has screwed the military over and over.
    so according to your logic obama has screwed the military yet he uses them in a photo op? that makes no ing sense you moron! did he send them into battle without proper eqiupment? Wouldn't that be a bad thing to do to the military?

  11. #61
    United Autodidact Society Shastafarian's Avatar
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    You know, his previous deferment was still good. Do you understand the concept of a "status change?" This was normal to get a deferment paper to sign in college. I'll bet almost every college student did just that. First deferment.. Changed schools twice, two more deferments, married, defermet, baby, deferemt. In reality, the only deferment that counts is the first 1963 deferment, before any talk of such war. The other four were required status changes.
    I never said I blame him for getting deferments. I would have done the same thing. It's what he did afterward that is the problem.

    Are you telling me it is normal for a young man to want to go to war, rather than persuing a promising career garenteed by college at the time?

    My God... That would be so stupid! Is that your line of thinking, or would you stay in college?
    I can understand his college deferments sure.

    "He said he "never served" because of deferments to finish a college career that lasted six years rather than four, which he attributed to subpar academic performance and the fact that he had to work to pay for his education."

    "On Oct. 6, 1965, the Selective Service lifted its ban against drafting married men who had no children. Nine months and two days later, Mr. Cheney's first daughter, Elizabeth, was born."

    Coincidence!

    You make it out to be.
    Not really.
    You see, even though Cheney hasn't had any actual military service, he knows the deal.
    He knows how and when to start wars, sure.
    He was Ford's Chief of Staff, and Bush(41)'s Secretary of defense. I was in the Army then and still have great respect for the man from his policies when I served.
    You weren't sent to Iraq on false pretenses.

    Kerry knew he would be drafted because of his lottery number. He joined the Navel reserves so he would be in a unit less likely to be in combat and as an officer should he have to go.
    Was he involved in combat? Yes or no.
    He specifically joined a reserve "Swift Boat" unit to avoid combat.
    And you know this how?
    However, the SWIFT missions changed. Anyway, without volenteerring as a skipper, he likely would have been drafted into an infantry combat unit as a grunt.
    Oh so he was smart. Something we don't want in a commander in chief. Again though, was he in combat?

    Why should anyone visit Dover? Any time a president visits anywhere, it's a nightmare on the local traffic conditions.
    I'll ask again. Are you a real person?
    This was for nothing but show. If he really respected the service men, he would have only bothered with the funerals.
    He would have only "bothered"?

    Most likely so. Remember, he was also Secretary of Defense during desert Storm.
    A war that at least had a pretense of an invasion of another country.

    So you don't like any of the 60% of those born in the 40's that went to college, married, or had children who got deferments, then believe in a strong USA defense.
    approval for the Iraq war is at 60%?

    The extent of Kerry's injuries were superficial.
    Oh you mean his wounds from BATTLE?
    He could be called a coward, ordering his ship away from battle in one instance.
    Are you using information from the swiftboat book?
    He was also stupid. Maybe not a coward. in one instance, he ordered the boat beached, to persue an enemy. He almost got himself and crew killed by violating standing procedure. His commander was split between courtmartialling him, and giving him a medal. If he wasn't a friend of the Kennedy family, I'll bet he would have been court marstialled. Instead, he recieved a Silver Star.
    Swiftboat?

    His doctor's account of the first injury:



    His second Purple Heart was the only legitamate one in most military people's eyes.

    Kerry's third Purple Heart and Bronze Star:
    You know what's awesome? That we can discuss the merits of his medals from going into war. You know who we can't discuss those things about? Cheney.

    I don't care how much you liberals try to make him out as a volenteer soldier or a hero. He wasn't really either.
    Why do you hate America? I thought we were supposed to support the troops.

    Funny how Obama only wants to visit when it's a photo-op, but republicans will go without the cameras.
    Which republicans have gone without cameras?

    Funny how one of the reported vacations wasn't. They were remodeling the White House!
    STRICKEN FROM THE RECORD! Thanks man. I can sleep at night now.

    One deferment and four status changes you mean?
    Nope. 5 deferments.
    "Five deferments seems incredible to me," said David Curry, a professor at the University of Missouri in St. Louis who has written extensively about the draft, including a 1985 book, "Sunshine Patriots: Punishment and the Vietnam Offender."
    have you thought about enlisting?
    Nope.

    Exagerations on top of exagerations. There is proof out there, I posted maybe two years ago, about the same man in many pictures. It has also been shown that when an enemy combatant dies, that their fellow un-uniformed combatants will take all their weaposns and leave...

    It's magic...

    Instant civilian!
    Like I said, Wild Cobra line of evidence. Unless you wanna provide a link.

    Reduce the chance of being drafted. Yes. Dodge it. No.
    He actively sought to keep his name out of the lottery. That's dodging, or at the very least trying to dodge, the war.

    If anyone was a draft dodger, it was Clinton. The assumption he gave that he would join ROTC kept him out of a draft status, without a deferment.
    http://www.snopes.com/politics/clintons/felon.asp
    Clinton also effectively did start that war. He signed the legislation that said we would do regime change.
    He effectively did? Did he send troops into Iraq?

    Why? What threat are they to us?
    What threat was Iraq? Oh and in case you hadn't heard, North Korea has nuclear weapons. But hey, getting Saddam saved American lives right because he was on the verge of attacking us. Right?

    I'd personally like to know what Obama is thinking. He sure isn't doing anything to help our troops out.
    Like sending them to a desert to die?

  12. #62
    keep asking questions George Gervin's Afro's Avatar
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    Deferemnts were normal procedures for college students. A photo-op with caskets is very tacky.
    Hiding the cost of war from the public is a little worse..

  13. #63
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Please don't ever talk to me or respond to any of my posts, ever. You are dumber than a rock and I'm not interested in anything you have to say. I believe you're a sub-human form of life and I don't ever want to have anything to do with you, your insane thoughts or your supremely low intellect ever again. Go to .
    Funny, that's wht I think of you.

    Oh... You must be looking in a mirror. Sorry...

  14. #64
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    so according to your logic obama has screwed the military yet he uses them in a photo op? that makes no ing sense you moron! did he send them into battle without proper eqiupment? Wouldn't that be a bad thing to do to the military?
    With the related facts out these past years, any idea how moronic that statemnt is?

  15. #65
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Wow.. I hate this comuter at the hotel. After I responded to this, and went to preview, I lost everything I did because I was logged out of spurstalk time-wise. Now I have to start over.
    I never said I blame him for getting deferments. I would have done the same thing. It's what he did afterward that is the problem.

    I can understand his college deferments sure.
    So anyone who gets a deferment isn't qualified to send troops?

    I guess that's why the 1993 Battle of Mogadishu went so well...

    Clinton did get a deferment...
    "He said he "never served" because of deferments to finish a college career that lasted six years rather than four, which he attributed to subpar academic performance and the fact that he had to work to pay for his education."
    If you look deeper into the facts, you will see he was refering to his High School. He was unprepared for a university and took Community College classes before starting his 4 year degree, which he did in 4 years.
    "On Oct. 6, 1965, the Selective Service lifted its ban against drafting married men who had no children. Nine months and two days later, Mr. Cheney's first daughter, Elizabeth, was born."

    Coincidence!
    I would say yes, coincidence.

    Gestation is 9 months. However, conception is as much as 3 weeks before gestation starts. The author does use facts, but misleads the ignorant here. Have any children yorself by chance? I bet since you don't understand pregancy very well, the answer is no. If it was 10 months or longer, then you can imply it's not coincidence. At 9 month and 2 days, it is clear she is misleading her readers on that. You should look at the statistics of a timeline of how long it takes to have a baby after trying.

    I'll bet the Cheney's decided to have children a few months earler after he recieved his BS degree earlier that year. Like any responsible parents, they waited for him to get his degree.
    You weren't sent to Iraq on false pretenses.
    True, The military and intelligence wasn't yet decimated by Clinton.
    Kerry knew he would be drafted because of his lottery number. He joined the Navel reserves so he would be in a unit less likely to be in combat and as an officer should he have to go.
    Was he involved in combat? Yes or no.
    Yes, but he never thought he would be.
    He specifically joined a reserve "Swift Boat" unit to avoid combat.
    And you know this how?
    If you ever did a little research on what is released of his records, you will find that was his first choice of duty. At the time, it was the least likely to see combat.
    Oh so he was smart. Something we don't want in a commander in chief. Again though, was he in combat?
    If you call disobeying standing orders and beaching a swift boat smart... A move that could have got them all killed...

    OK...

    If you say so...
    He would have only "bothered"?
    Because I don't believe there is any sincerity about the situation. Only photo-ops.

    Remember before the elections. He cancelled seeing injured soldiers because he couldn't bring the media with him?
    A war that at least had a pretense of an invasion of another country.
    And out 2003 actions were justified by Saddam not following the agreements that stopped Desert Storm.

    Were you even an grade school in the early 90's?
    approval for the Iraq war is at 60%?
    That's not what I implied, and it was pretty strong in ciongress when they authorized military action. What was the approval among democrats? I forget. Care to look it up for me?
    Oh you mean his wounds from BATTLE?
    The first wound, there was no battle.
    Are you using information from the swiftboat book?
    Swiftboat?
    No, from firsthand accounts on record.
    You know what's awesome? That we can discuss the merits of his medals from going into war. You know who we can't discuss those things about? Cheney.
    Too bad only the second purple heart has any merit. I cannot stand the man. He dishonors the uniform.
    Why do you hate America? I thought we were supposed to support the troops.
    You are so ing stupid to believe that.
    Which republicans have gone without cameras?
    I guess I should have said without the media. Obama won't do so unless he has a media style photo-op.
    STRICKEN FROM THE RECORD! Thanks man. I can sleep at night now.
    Thing is, the president really is never on vacation. He always has access to what he needs. You and your fellow liberals having their panies in a wad over such things just shows how ignorant you really are.
    Nope. 5 deferments.
    It doesn't matter if it is one or fifty. Why must you prove you know how to count to five? Really, I believe you there.
    have you thought about enlisting?
    Nope.
    Why doesn't that surprise me?
    Like I said, Wild Cobra line of evidence. Unless you wanna provide a link.
    I have posted this in the past. Great memory you don't have. Is it a selective momory you have? No going to attempt to look it up now.

    Tell me please. How do you tell the difference between a combatant that doesn't wear a uniform, and a civilian?

    Could it be if he has a weapon or not, firing at you?

    Are you saying it doesn't stand to reason, for the enemy to collect all available weaponrey from their fallen comrads?

    Come on now. Even a little common sense tells us the numbers are exagerated.
    He actively sought to keep his name out of the lottery. That's dodging, or at the very least trying to dodge, the war.
    Actively? By following the normal procedures of deferments, and required status changes by law?
    I never said anything remote to such a conspiracy.

    Love your thinking. You take a link that proves a consiracy theory wrong, and says it disproves everything. My God... What stupidity you display, or think others do.

    Colonel Eugene Holmes's September 1992 affidavit concerning Bill Clinton and the draft

    [URLhttp://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/838469/posts]Bill Clinton's December 1969 letter to his ROTC Director[/URL]

    I had more links, but I'm not going to go back and find them. This computer does not retain history.
    He effectively did? Did he send troops into Iraq?
    Not that I recall, but he did exhaust our arselan of cruise missiles.

    I wonder how many civilians he killed using them, instead of trained solders who can target in real time?
    What threat was Iraq? Oh and in case you hadn't heard, North Korea has nuclear weapons. But hey, getting Saddam saved American lives right because he was on the verge of attacking us. Right?
    Iraq was more a threat than you realize. Saddam would pay families of suicide bombers for their sacrifice. This was a great incentive. He also allowed training camps in his country. Then of course, he violated the agreements that created the cease fire from Desert Storm. That alone is enough, otherwise others will with the USA.

    Maybe if Clinton didn't let him jerk us arond, maybe 9/11 wouldn't have happened...
    Like sending them to a desert to die?
    Get a grip. Soldiers die in war. If Clnton hadn't downsized the military and intelligence, we would have had less sldiers die.

  16. #66
    Rising above the Fray spursncowboys's Avatar
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    Obama Budget Cuts Target Military
    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...itary-funding/

    WH plan to make vets pay for service injury
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_176006.html

  17. #67
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Leave it to the demonrats to with the military...

  18. #68
    Rising above the Fray spursncowboys's Avatar
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    When the republicans say when in office the dem president will cut military, they are always called fear mongering. Then it always happens. I admire his ability to want to conservative with tax dollars when it comes to a cons uionally protected right like our defense. However we should make the next generation pay for things like health care, college, low-income housing, welfare and fail companies.

  19. #69
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    When the republicans say when in office the dem president will cut military, they are always called fear mongering. Then it always happens. I admire his ability to want to conservative with tax dollars when it comes to a cons uionally protected right like our defense. However we should make the next generation pay for things like health care, college, low-income housing, welfare and fail companies.
    I know. Are they always high or something?

    Have to cut military spending to reduce the deficit, but them want to add a trillion plus annually to the deficit with health care...

    My God, and their lemming believe they have it paid for.

    Stupid lemmings.

  20. #70
    keep asking questions George Gervin's Afro's Avatar
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    Leave it to the demonrats to with the military...
    Democrats in Congress are organizing to squash a White House proposal that would require veterans to use private insurance to pay for treatment of their combat and service-related injuries.
    So are you going to praise Congress now? Its the dems in congress who are trying to stop this..so dems aren't trying to the military..another lie..

  21. #71
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Military spending went up what, 4-6% in the last authorization? If you dislike Obama's decision to axe certain programs that's one thing, but it's just not factually true to suggest he has cut spending.

    At most, the anticipated rate of increase was cut, but the result is still a net increase in defense spending.

  22. #72
    keep asking questions George Gervin's Afro's Avatar
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    I know. Are they always high or something?

    Have to cut military spending to reduce the deficit, but them want to add a trillion plus annually to the deficit with health care...

    My God, and their lemming believe they have it paid for.

    Stupid lemmings.
    No one is adding a trillion dollars to the deficict with healthcare..lie # 2 in the last 10 minutes..

  23. #73
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    No one is adding a trillion dollars to the deficict with healthcare..lie # 2 in the last 10 minutes..
    Trust me, if this becomes a reality, the CBO numbers will not hold.

    Actually, I know you don't trust me. It doesn't matter. No matter how you slice it, any proposed bill the democrats come up with to insure almost everyone with preexisting conditions will be very very expensive.

  24. #74
    keep asking questions George Gervin's Afro's Avatar
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    Trust me, if this becomes a reality, the CBO numbers will not hold.

    Actually, I know you don't trust me. It doesn't matter. No matter how you slice it, any proposed bill the democrats come up with to insure almost everyone with preexisting conditions will be very very expensive.
    so you made something up AGAIN!

  25. #75
    Rising above the Fray spursncowboys's Avatar
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    No one is adding a trillion dollars to the deficict with healthcare..lie # 2 in the last 10 minutes..
    What happens after ten years? When has a bill from congress not costed more than planned?

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