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Hakeem was a superstar from his 2nd season on. He hit his peak right on time after MJ retired for the first time. His prime was quite long.
He was a superstar player; I never said he wasn't. But there are superstars like Dwight and Melo. And there are Super duper stars.
I say:
1) He didn't reach his prime until 32
2) He didn't attain Kobe, Duncan Magic level until age 32
Fellow Laker fans are all en led to their opinion. He has the conversation confused...note that he has included the championship years. If he had not included the Championship years, I'd see your point. Please don't try to increase your argument with faked support.But, oh well. It's obvious you're a lost cause. Even a fellow Laker fan called you out.
Most fans here are saying Hakeem was in his prime in his championship years; just like I do.
Only you contend that Hakeem was in his prime prior to that.
6 pages of this thread and only Jamstone has said Hakeem was in his prime in his 20's.
Is there ANYBODY other than you saying Hakeem was in his prime in his 20's? Let them come forth.
Donaldson was the starter that year and even Wally Szcerbiak was a 1 time all-star.One thing I will point out is that James Donaldson was an all star in 1988, that season Hakeem faced the Mavs and put up 37.5 and 16.8 in the series. Not exactly Dikembe Mutombo, but an all star, along with Roy Tarpley and Sam Perkins, both of whom played more minutes in the playoffs than Donaldson. Not that it matters with who warped you look at things. But I just wanted to point that out.
Last edited by Allanon; 11-28-2009 at 04:52 AM.
Hakeem was a superstar from his 2nd season on. He hit his peak right on time after MJ retired for the first time. His prime was quite long.
If you say so.
So my question to you is, was 0 ring Hakeem on the same level as 4 ring Kobe, 4 ring Duncan and 5 ring Magic?
I see you edited that post where you said you never said Hakeem hit his prime at 32...
You are mistaken.
You initially wrote, "I never said Hakeem didn't hit his prime until he was 32."
When I went to find the comment to quote it, you had edited your post...
Last edited by Allanon; Today at 07:52 AM..
So anyone who agrees that Hakeem's "prime" started at 32 also speak up.
I have no idea what you are talking about.
I'm not even sure what that quote means "I never said Hakeem didn't hit his prime until he was 32." ... that's a double negative.
Perhaps it's late and you're imagining things.
How do they look like Dwight's numbers? Your completely ignoring what i was trying to tell you in my last 10 posts. One guy has the offensive game to have an entire offense run through him, and make his team mates better by providing easy offense for them, and also himself.
The other guy relies on others to get him the ball in good positions for dunks and lay ups, while throwing in the occasional hook shots. One guy relies on his team mates, and the other, his team mates rely on him. Thats a massive difference between the two. You just continue to ignore this and look at raw numbers and somehow come up with the conclusion that they are equal, when even in raw numbers they are not.
How about i make a similar comparison for Kobe. Last season...
Danny Granger - 25.8 PPG, 5.1 APG, 2.7 APG, 1.5 BPG
Kobe Bryant - 26.8 PPG, 5.2 RPG, 4.9 APG, 0.5 BPG
Granger = Kobe?
You have it the wrong way around. Increasing your output in the playoffs is the mark of a great player. Opposition gets tougher, defenses get tougher, and calls are harder to come by. Look at their respective careers...Ah, Hakeem disappears in the regular season and decides to show up in the Playoffs, after his team gets the low seeds, eh? Consequently ending up with a bunch of 1-3 first round exits.
Sure he was a superstar player who played average in the regular season and picked it up in the Playoffs. By coasting through the regular season, he always got lowly seeds.
Why are you ignoring his average season numbers? Free pass?
I suppose that makes Dwight an elite Superstar then. Good for Hakeem to compare so favorably to Dwight.
Hakeem
Regular Season - 21.8 PPG, 11.1 RPG, 2.5 APG, 1.7 SPG, 3.1 BPG, 35.7 MPG, .512%
Post Season - 25.9 PPG, 11.2 RPG, 3.2 APG, 1.7 APG, 3.3 BPG, 39.6 MPG, .528%
Kobe
Regular Season - 25.2 PPG, 5.3 RPG, 4.6 APG, 1.5 SPG, 0.6 BPG, 36.4 MPG, .455%
Post Season - 25.0 PPG, 5.1 RPG, 4.7 APG, 1.4 SPG, 0.7 BPG, 39.4 MPG, .447%
Hakeem increases his output by 4 PPG AND increases his FG%, while creating more offense through assists. Kobe's minutes go up, yet his scoring drops slightly, as does his efficiency.
The great players step up in the playoffs.
How about i list some of Hakeem's individual games...
29 PTS, 18 RBS, 10 AST, 11 BLK, 5 STL
52 PTS, 18 RBS, 5 AST, 3 BLK, 3 STL
32 PTS, 25 RBS, 10 BLK
41 PT, 14 RBS, 4 AST, 4 STL, 7 BLK
Thats just from ONE season. All of those games you could argue were just as dominant as an 81 point game where a guy takes 46 shots at the basket, and doesnt create anything for anyone else.
No, he wasn't. In those weak seasons...
Kobe
27.6 PPG, 5.9 RPG, 6.0 APG, .433%
35.4 PPG, 5.3 RPG, 4.3 APG, .450%
LeBron
27.2 PPG, 7.4 RPG, 7.2 APG, .472%
31.4 PPG, 7.0 RPG, 6.6 APG, .492%
Both of LeBron's seasons were statistically better. So, going by your logic, LeBron was the better player.
Last edited by mystargtr34; 11-28-2009 at 07:27 AM.
holy $#t
6 pages for a Hakeem vs Kobe thread
Kobe has 4 rings and a Finals MVP; Granger does not. Let's not bring in regular players to the conversation. This is like bringing up Al Jefferson compared to Duncan.
And a great player like Hakeem stepped it up in the Playoffs and brought home 0 rings while Kobe didn't step up and got 4 rings? How does that make any sense?You have it the wrong way around. Increasing your output in the playoffs is the mark of a great player. Opposition gets tougher, defenses get tougher, and calls are harder to come by. Look at their respective careers...
Hakeem
Regular Season - 21.8 PPG, 11.1 RPG, 2.5 APG, 1.7 SPG, 3.1 BPG, 35.7 MPG, .512%
Post Season - 25.9 PPG, 11.2 RPG, 3.2 APG, 1.7 APG, 3.3 BPG, 39.6 MPG, .528%
Kobe
Regular Season - 25.2 PPG, 5.3 RPG, 4.6 APG, 1.5 SPG, 0.6 BPG, 36.4 MPG, .455%
Post Season - 25.0 PPG, 5.1 RPG, 4.7 APG, 1.4 SPG, 0.7 BPG, 39.4 MPG, .447%
Hakeem increases his output by 4 PPG AND increases his FG%, while creating more offense through assists. Kobe's minutes go up, yet his scoring drops slightly, as does his efficiency.
The great players step up in the playoffs.
]How about i list some of Hakeem's individual games...
29 PTS, 18 RBS, 10 AST, 11 BLK, 5 STL
52 PTS, 18 RBS, 5 AST, 3 BLK, 3 STL
32 PTS, 25 RBS, 10 BLK
41 PT, 14 RBS, 4 AST, 4 STL, 7 BLK
Thats just from ONE season. All of those games you could argue were just as dominant as an 81 point game where a guy takes 46 shots at the basket, and doesnt create anything for anyone else.
If it was that easy to score 81, there would be more 81 point games. It's not easy as throwing up 46 shots.
Fact is only 1 person has done it and there is no comparison other than Wilt's 100.
How is LeBron statistically better? Kobe scored 27.6, LeBron had 27.2No, he wasn't. In those weak seasons...
Kobe
27.6 PPG, 5.9 RPG, 6.0 APG, .433%
35.4 PPG, 5.3 RPG, 4.3 APG, .450%
LeBron
27.2 PPG, 7.4 RPG, 7.2 APG, .472%
31.4 PPG, 7.0 RPG, 6.6 APG, .492%
Both of LeBron's seasons were statistically better. So, going by your logic, LeBron was the better player.
Kobe had 35.4 ppg,Lebron had 31.4.
Kobe had an 81 point game. Outscored the Mavs 62-61. LeBron didn't have any of those spectacular feats.
Guys like Jeff Van Gundy regularly say Kobe has been the best player for years. There's a whole thread of quotes of players/coaches/gm's great players saying Kobe was the best all those years.
Let me ask you a simple question.
Was 0 ring Hakeem on the same level as Kobe right now?
Last edited by Allanon; 11-28-2009 at 09:41 AM.
I don't know the entire gist of this debate but on no planet is Dwight Howard even a shadow of the Dream. That's ridiculous on so many levels.
Yup. My point exactly. It's a ridiculous comparison.
Just like it's ludicrous to compare 0 ring Hakeem to 4 ring Kobe.
Using Allanon's logic, before last season, Scottie Pippen was a better player than Kobe since he had 6 les compared to 3 les, both as sidekicks.
Pippen > Kobe before the 2009 Lakers championship
Allanons 2 arguments:
1.) ppg is the end all be all of stats despite what % it is at.
2.) number of rings won determines who is better.
Both weak, as is trying to compare one of, if not the most dominant center ever to a stat padding rapist.
Lars borrowed Double's rag. Now's he on it.
I God's!
I think they steamroll any team not the 2001 Lakers in this decade. They played they're absolute best ball when it mattered. That was just a team on a mission.Hahaha. That '04 Pistons team was going to steamroll you regardless of who you had on the floor.
thanx for bringing this up. if u think about it Dwight=Olojuwon and Kobe>Dwight. u would need to a blind homer not to see it.
LOLing@ the hataz just trying to bring down Kobe..........keep trying and talk to me @ the end of the seasen.
whoever made this troll. Whoever you are, you.
Hakeem played with Robinson, Ewing, Oneal, Mourning, and Mutombo.
Dwight needs to GTFO out of this thread. His DPOY is worth dog .
Ok, maybe I worded that wrong. What I meant to say was Oden was gonna be good enough to pick over KD.I think Oden's gonna be good. Maybe not HoF'er but a top NBA center.
I'm ok with being an idiot until it happens though.
i dont understand you
don't worry, not many of us speak "molester"
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