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Youngin, one day you'll learn that calling people weaksauce and their takes ty grants you negative points at the final tally.What a tool...you avoided the question like the pussy I knew you were, Z0sa.
GTFO with that weak
What a tool...you avoided the question like the pussy I knew you were, Z0sa.
GTFO with that weak
Youngin, one day you'll learn that calling people weaksauce and their takes ty grants you negative points at the final tally.What a tool...you avoided the question like the pussy I knew you were, Z0sa.
GTFO with that weak
Yes it does son, yes it does. As does hypocrisy.
I'm not part of the compe ion, just a judge. The tally speaks for itself
Hahah, a judge? Judges are impartial, you're a freaking Kobe and Lakerfan hater for years now.
I've argued heatedly with Mystar for a few seasons now. Although we often disagree, he shames you as far as impartiality goes.
In your 4 years and 4,000 posts, have you EVER said anything positive about Kobe or Lakerfan?
GTFO judge.
You do realize the Lakers also had Gasol, Bynum, Odom, and Ariza, right?
Off the top of my head, here's a list of players who could won with that roster: Lebron, Wade, Carmelo, Pierce, Roy, Joe Johnson, and maybe Vince Carter.
First, I said COULD BE ... no one knows for sure. And when I say 2nd greatest to MJ that is for players since 1980 SINCE I DID NOT watch basketball BEFORE then I dont compare magic, Kobe MJ Duncan to players I have never sEEN myself NBA Classic games doesnt count because they ALWAYS show those guy's greatest games ...
I could also say duncan can pass Kareem or Hakeem IMHO i doubt it but how do I know how much game and winning Duncan has left he is the greatest PF (if you insist on keepin him there (in my book) 3rd best PF/C To kareem and hakeem but he is not retired yet ...Kobe can definitely pass all the 80 - present guy on that list except maybe MJ and Kareem ...
Bird though great has already been passed and Kobe is closing in on Magic ...
Will he be my favorite player or the people's choice? probably not (i still favor Magic) ...too many haters. But he will have rings and stats to back that up so if you want to argue on either point ...Kobe since 1980 Only trails Magic, Kareem and MJ when you factor in both rings and stats ...Duncan/Shaq/Hakeem/Kobe are all in the same class at this point with les rings and MVP's to back their case.
Bynum = hurt
Odom & ariza = inconsistent
Gaosl = all-star
As for your list Roy has better all-around talent (ask tlong) they the deepest in the NBA ...so does melo so did Pierce ...
Only true advantage Kobe has is coaching ...
Also talent alnone does not win les ...many could argue that the suns teams that KEEP losing to the Spurs has more TALENT but Spurs have the best player and coach in the matchup (pop and duncan) same with Lakers over Nuggs ...
Odom was inconsistent? Seriously? Against the Magic, he shot 54% for the series.
Gasol shot 60% for the series against the Magic. That's why you'll lose this argument. That and the fact that Kobe scored his points against the Magic through volume shooting. Any player on my list has the ability to replicate Kobe's performance, but even if we assume they don't, they could just throw the ball down low to Gasol.
The Blazers may have a deeper roster, but no one on their team can come close to Gasol. I don't think you appreciate how dominant Gasol really is. There are only a handful of bigs who have a refined post game. The same logic applies to the Nuggets and Celtics (Garnett was injured). You really underestimate how important bigs are.
The only argument people can logically make is that the Suns have more offensive talent. However, the Spurs have plenty of offensive talent themselves are are built for the playoffs. The Suns were built for the regular season. Not to mention that the Spurs are a far more talented defensive team.
Silly rabbit how are you gonna argue with someone that has watched every Laker game (almost) since 1980 about MY team? That is fine if you want to diminish Kobe's contributuions to the le doesnt matter to me ...
But Odom also had games of 2, 5 and 6 once and games of 7 and 8pts twice INCONSISTENT ...
Gasol was great we should of gotten him the ball even more no doubt ...
But the thing is not every volume shooter can win games Joe Johnson is good so is Roy and Vince but if you seriously feel you can insert anyone in Kobe's place and get the same results you know little about basketball.
What you fail to see the importance of is "it" Kobe has it, Duncan has it, Hakeem had it, Bird magic and of course "MJ". Pippen did a great Jordan impression but he never had "it", Mcgrady some argued he was as good if not better than Kobe at one time but he doesnt have it either. I think Melo, LBJ wade and Pierce do ...not sure about the others you mentioned ... Point is onl;y pierce and Wade have also proven thay can lead teams like Shaq and duncan have to a ttile all that replace stuff is bull conjecture.
I bet you one of those clowns that argue if barry had emitt's line ...but truth of the matter is Emmitt had "it" Barry did not. Barry had the highlights spectacular plays but I take Emmitt, walter Payton, Faulk and Marcus allen all day over him. Winners have that "it" but I guess you dont recognize "it" cuz you haven't been able to watch it up close since Hakeem left ...
Last edited by Killakobe81; 12-01-2009 at 12:02 AM.
and before the Barry lovers or Cowboy haters flame me ...here is my point.
Name the greatest alltime of any sport? How many NEVER won a le? I mean the ABSOLUTELY no doubt best player of a decade that DID not win a le?
Now i only have watched sports since 1980
NFL? Marino, you could make a case for ...but many would argue Elway and Montana were greater.
NBA? Miller, Stockton, malone were they better than Magic, Bird, MJ, Kobe Shaq HAkeem or Duncan?
MLB? Here you may have some arguments here Bonds, and Griffey but the other greats Puckett, Clemens, Jeter, Arod, Schilling, Manny, Randy Pujols
NHL? Grezky, Mario, Crosby Messier, Roy,
Point is cream ALWAYS rises to the top the best I have ever seen Rice, Irvin, Lott, Magic , Bird, Hakeem, LT (real one), Jagr etc they find a way to win at LEAST ONE le if you don't you can be great but you can't be the ALL-time best sorry ...
I love Reggie miller Im a UCLA alumnus great clutch player and probably one of the "few" truly clutch players NOT to win a le in the NBA he, chuck and Stockton. Malone was not clutch ... he shrunk in many big games so I discount him in the greatest players argument. But Miller did not win so as much as I love the guycant be the greatest ...
I would love for you to explain how watching the Lakers since 1980 gives you a better understanding of the 2009 finals than anyone else.
That being said, I'm not diminishing Kobe's contributions. I'm just putting them in the proper context. I said he scored his points through volume shooting. This is a fact. Check the box scores.
I'm talking about the finals. What're you talking about? Are you seriously trying to prove your point by cherry picking stats for the entire playoffs? Get real.
Sorry, but the logic is sound. My point is that Gasol was so effective that the Lakers could've replaced Kobe with an inferior (albeit still a star) player and still beaten the Magic.
It would be one thing if Kobe had a great series, but he simply didn't. Look at the stats. Like I said before, Kobe scored his points through volume shooting.
It's true that I root for the Rockets, but when they get eliminated, I root for the other Texas teams. I appreciate quality basketball. Why do you think I'm on a Spurs forum?
And I agree Gasol is great glad we have him but his contributions does not take away what Kobe has done ...of course Kobe needed Gasol to win everyone needs help. But I could sub in KG or Duncan in that spot and Lakers still win so what is your point?
No, I did not Cherry pick Wekko you said he was great in the Finals and yes that was true ... BUT to get to the FINALS we had to beat 3 other teams and LO was inconsistent especially vs. Nuggs and ROX ...
Kobe did take a lot of shots but to even take that many requires talent and stamina ...
And again I disagree ...Pierce, LBJ wade and Kobe can thrive on the biggest stage but those other guys unproven ...
But that's ok you stick your stats Hollinger because they always tell the WHOLE story ...
Trevor Ariza is a GREAT shooter and scorer cuz he is averaging almost 20 points ... points ...right?
Look the Lakers are good no disputing that ... but Bynum was hurt, Ariza and LO came up big (FINALS) and Gasol was consistent. The reason why those guys shine cuz Kobe takes those shots and takes the defense with him ...Before Kobe ...Gasol stuggled to win a playoff game let alone a series ...Ariza was bench warmer before LA, Dfish is a clutch role player Odom an enigma ...they all get open looks beacuse of Kobe 1st and Gasol 2nd. Gasol make Kobe's job easier Kobe takes pressure off of Pau ...
Last edited by Killakobe81; 12-01-2009 at 12:23 AM.
Also even look at Pau's international career ...before Last year he choked in the Olympics and Euro Finals because Manu cam through in the clutch when Pau could not ...Pau is a great player bbut not a leader he does not have "it" but he is doing better I would credit Phil 1st and Kobe 2nd for his further development ...
Read this ...Pau was known for coming up short ...
Speaking of redemption, well, Spanish superstar Pau Gasol's circle is complete as well. After being roundly criticized for his role in the Lakers' defeat in the 2008 Finals, Gasol established himself as arguably one of the NBA's top dozen players in 2008-09, capped off by his skilled performance in L.A.'s championship run through the 2009 Playoffs and Finals. Pau averaged 18.6 points, 9.2 rebounds, and 1.8 blocks while also shooting .600 and doing a fine job defensively against Dwight Howard in the Finals.
Meanwhile, NBA fans may not be as aware that Gasol had unfinished business at the Eurobasket as well, as his disastrous fourth quarter in the 2007 gold-medal game may well have cost Team España the game. As we wrote in 2007:
"After such a tremendous Eurobasket for two weeks, Pau Gasol had a nightmare of a final--he just couldn't connect on his interior shots. Some of that has to be credited to the Russian defense, but Pau just could not get shots to fall.
Then he had a 4th quarter he would soon like to have wiped from the records. Pau was 3/8 on FTs and combined that with 3 TOs, including the costly TO with :25 left. All these miscues would have been forgotten if Pau could have knocked down a desperation jumper with :02 left, but his shot just rimmed out. Overall on the night, the Spanish go-to guy was just 4/13 from the floor and 5/12 at the line (14 pts, 14 reb, 3 ast, 3 blk, 5 TO)."
Not meant to demean Gasol just facts.
Hate to break it to you, but Gasol's international career is absolutely irrelevant (I didn't watch it). Basketball is about matchups, and the NBA lacks quality big men. Look at Gasol's opposition during the playoffs. Boozer? Gasol towers over him. Scola? You can't be serious. Kenyon Martin? All those guys are simply too small to stop Gasol. Howard has adequate size, but he's a poor man to man defender against other bigs.
Do you realize that there's a difference between "points" and "consistency"? Against the Nuggets, Odom was fairly consistent with his percentages except for game 4 where he shot terribly. In any case, you listed 7 games where you felt he was "inconsistent". That means he played well in 16 games....and you think that's something to complain about...
Look, everyone has bad games. It's idiocy to cherry pick these bad games and accuse the player of being "inconsistent".
Wow. You're actually using this as an argument. After reading something this re ed, I usually call the poster an idiot and call it a night.
You're an idiot. Goodnight.
Mature.
Tried to have an intelligent debate but you heardthe story about arguing with fools .... LOL I kid.
So you think it's easy to take 30 shots in any game? Do you EVEN play basketball? How many games did AI , MJ, etc take 30 shots? Being a great scorer you will take shots Volume shots (as you call it) but it puts pressure on the defense whether you make or miss them ...of course it helps to make them. I agree the Finals was not Kobe's most efficient work ...but you have to really "know" the game to see why he was MVP ...I'll give you an example. Despite his lack of scoring I still felt Duncan was the Finals vs. the Cavs because he anchored the defense and set the picks, rebounded and scored when called on and set up the opther guys ...it was his "presence" that freed up Parker ...but stats like yourself normally give it to Parker ...I agree big man presence means a lot ...but As good as Gasol is his presence is not equal to Duncan's Kobe's is ...because the opposing coach designs their defense to stop him ...it wa sKobe fighting for loose balls and knocking down Howard in the clutch ...Kobe passing to Fisher for the OT 3 ...
I didnt watch it so it's not relevant. Point is he made the playoffs and got swept in Mamphis at least two times that I saw ...
Gasol is great we have ALREADY established that ...but without Kobe he was always coming up short Kobe needed him as well no one disagrees here. Point is Kobe is an all-time great Gasol an all-star HUGE difference.
I give you points for trying Wekko ...you dont like Kobe so even though you give Gasol credit you do it to diminish Kobe's contributions. That is fine Kobe, will volume shoot his way in to the HOF, and another le. And you will come in here and whine that "it's because Gasol is so gifted" When true people with basketball smarts know that Kobe freed up Gasol to show his skills and Gasol has helped Kobe to showcase his greatness on the biggest stage again ...you will run to your PC and exclaim he needed 30 shots to score 40! Vince could do that! But Vince hasn't. Either way you slice it Lakers win. LOL!
Ten pages for this ? Give it up already.
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