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not to mention we're selling America's infrastructure to the highest foreign bidder
-i think everyone hates urban sprawl
- i dont really see that toll roads encourage public transit
we pay for them too, schools get built farther out, police patrol, fire, EMS. you may say you have no business in boerne ranch but you will, one day you will and it wont be worth it when youre paying out of your pocket to drive on a road, with a DL that you payed for, an inspection that you payed for, a car that you paid for, registration that you payed for, using gas that you payed for and youre taxed out the ass for, insurance that you payed for- with police patrolling to ticket you even more, how much more could we pay for?
you need to look at how much tax payers money was spent promoting tollroads, it will make you sick
Last edited by mookie2001; 12-04-2009 at 02:51 PM.
not to mention we're selling America's infrastructure to the highest foreign bidder
that's the part that bothers me.
no if everyone hated sprawl we wouldn't have all these stuccohoods all over the outskirts of sa. people wanna have their cake and eat it too, which is fine and all, but they should pay for that cake, not me.
Is there a legend for all the acronyms listed?
If I read it right, it looks like the tolls will be on new lanes added to existing non-toll lanes for the most part. I don't mind a whole lot if there are free alternative lanes/routes. Some of the new toll roads they want to put in Austin will have no alternatives, which does suck. I do wish the whole process was more open to public input.
The OP is pretty misleading. Not much weeping necessary.
Last edited by ChumpDumper; 12-04-2009 at 06:55 PM.
ok, maybe i'm not reading it right, but which ones are the tolls?
The list is from the Tolling Authorities so they dont make it easy to read. The roads with a CDA or RMA will be the tolled roads. PTF's can be converted to toll roads. But here is a summary:
CDA stands for Comprehensive Development Agreement which is also known as PPP, Public Private Partnership, where a private, foreign company generally buys the right to run and set tolls on a roadway for up to 50 years or more. These agreements always provide for non-compete clauses where no improvements can be made to free roads that might drain revenue away from the tolled road they manage and have financed. The US GAO 2004 study of these PPPs states that 100% of them contained non-compete clauses.
RMA Where the funding source is listed as RMA that means a toll road to be run and financed via bonds by the Alamo Regional Mobility Authority, that tolling authority set up by Gov Perry who appointed its head, Bill Thorton. Note that the bonds they issue will bind the city/county should the tolls prove insufficient.
PTF Pass Through financing, PTF, is where a county or city issues bonds to fund a road project where the bond is to be repaid out of future gas tax revenue. If gas tax revenues prove insufficient (based on highway use, availability of funds), then in most cases it converts to a toll road unless the county is willing to pay the deficiency. Comal County is using Pass-through financing to fund expanded HW 46 from 281 to 35 and, yes, it has a clause that permits conversion to a toll road by County Commissioner vote. (that road will cost 10%-20% of what 281 as a toll road will cost.)
As if to explain why this is happening, CDAs and tolling, I raise three points:
a) tolled roads are not subject to compe ive bidding practices and are called Design-Build roads. (Hwy 281 is shown as a Design Build on the RMA website.) Non-tolled roads are subject to compe ive bidding (by law, Design Build contractors cannot be selected on what they will charge, its a sweat-heart deal for the contractors who have political ties to TXDOT and Governor Perry.)
b) the Alamo RMA is funded by getting a percentage of highway contracts let. The more they spend, the more they make! The free highway improvements to 281 were $100 Million maximum; the tolled 281road, now planned as 20 lanes wide, is over $500 Million! $400 Million of extra profits to contractors, etc. (Yes, we have the original TXDOT/MPO plans all do ented.) Remember, they are planning to spend $500 million on an 8 mile stretch of road where we already own 90% of the easement!
Lastly, c) tolled roads may charge whatever they want and use the funds to not only pay for roadways but for other purposes such as light rail, maybe even cemeteries (as the gas tax funds were diverted to, e.g.) Its a new tax, a flat-tax on citizens.
Last edited by Twisted_Dawg; 12-04-2009 at 07:24 PM.
ok, now that i see it that way....
it really doesn't seem that bad, and the fact that its a 25yr plan make seem even more sensible.
so why the outrage? if you don't wanna pay a toll, take the existing road. if you don't wanna pay a gas tax, buy an electric or find a different way. i don't wanna pay taxes on gambling earning so i don't gamble. its pretty simple.
the 12 projects listed here are a far cry from the amount of toll roads being reported about in your original 'article'....so I will pass on reading it and "weaping".
not to mention the time frame is set for the year 2035.......which does bother me in that 25 years to get this ball rolling is waaaaaaaay to far away. Traffic is already bad enough on 1604 from Bandera Rd to I-35 to warrant expansion at least to 6 lanes.
....and street lights along 1604 would be nice.....
because theoretically, there should be enough money from taxes to pay for expansion without having to toll it.
chumpdumper: this isn't girder talk
even if its pretty innocuous in the grand scheme of things, why would we not want to fight greasy, slick , high and mighty foreigners from collecting this money? On principle alone.
It's just another brick in the wall of selling out our own country. Fat pig ers like Glen Beck will rally up the neocon nation about selling out sovereignity via climate bills, yet won't say a word about cintra, or all the other cracked ass foreign fat cats who want to own a piece of america. Literally.
How do you know they are greasy and slick- ed? You seem to have a lot of information on them not found in these pages.
And what are you going to do to fight them?
I'm all for raising the gasoline tax to pay for these roads.It's just another brick in the wall of selling out our own country. Fat pig ers like Glen Beck will rally up the neocon nation about selling out sovereignity via climate bills, yet won't say a word about cintra, or all the other cracked ass foreign fat cats who want to own a piece of america. Literally.
A "scam" where SEVERAL VERY WEALTHY monied interests make a LOT of money off the taxpayers. Right now we have former city manager Terri Brechtel and former mayor Bill Thornton running the local MPO. They are wealthy and paid very well not to mention all the "perks" that come with the "job". Next, all the engineering firms, law firms and lobbyist also making a lot of money. Then waiting in the wings are the road construction companies prepared to make a killing tearing down an existing freeway like IH-10 N and rebuilding it to a Tool Road. Then finally, the operator of the Toll Road (i.e. Cinta form Spain) with a sweetheart deal making billions fo ryears to come...all at you expense.
Exactly! The country went nuts a couple of years ago when the idea was floated to sell the port of LA to a Middle Eastern country. If we are going ro sell our roads, why dont we also sell our power plants, dams, railroads, etc.
Giraffe, what about the hard working blue collar workers, mostly minorities who will have to pay that toll tax to go out to work at those construction sites each day? You think they have the money for that or will be able to pass that cost on to the contractor? And Giraffe, what if you have a repairman coming to you house and built into his bill is a fee for the added expense of the toll roads?
History lesson: The current State gas tax is 20 cents per gallon. Several years ago, our "wise" state politicians took 5 cents of this to help fund public schools, since they were cutting back on other funding ot the schools. Then a few years ago these politicians took another 5 cents to help fund DPS structures and cemetaries. So in the last few yerars the State has taken 50% of the gas tax and spent it elswhere. A couple of years ago, a TxDot official said that if there was a 8 cent per gallon raise in the gas tax, that should bring in enough money to build all the roads they need with out toll roads.
no. why raise taxes on EVERYONE when only a select few will be using most of the roads that will end up being a toll road.
toll the rich suburbanites, let everyone who choses to live, work, and pay taxes in the city keep a lower gas tax.
i even think that you should get a tax deduction for proof of purchase on public transit.
If you could guarantee those in the inner city would never use the suburban roads, fine.
I don't think that's very practical.
money that could go to pay for roads that everyone uses not just a select few, right?
or better yet we could get a better traffic light system here and that would help as well.
there would be no guarantee, but why encourage sprawl?
and why tax everyone to support a select few?
why not just raise the prop tax in those areas and then you wouldn't have to toll. its like a reverse robbin hood,tax the poor to pay for the rich.
"selling America's infrastructure to the highest foreign bidder"
Americans refuse to pay their hated government for infrastructure construction and maintenance with taxes.
The huge explosion of infrastructure building after WWII is now past due for some very expensive maintenance.
The foreign owners will make the US citizens pay dearly.
btw, SA roads just suck, even the new stretches of 410 northside, which are wavy and bumpy. Then there is the new concrete stretches of 10 West which are bumpy, also.
How the can road builders be so ing incompetent? Must be saving money, pocketing profits by skimping on road bed stability and surface smoothness. How does the govt let them get away with such ty product?
The sprawl is already there. Not building roads has not been proven to discourage development -- e.g., north San Antonio, pretty much west of Austin.
There's more than a few out there.and why tax everyone to support a select few?
Here the toll roads are specifically in the suburban areas (so far). Like I said, if there is still a free alternative route, I don't feel too badly about the new toll lanes.why not just raise the prop tax in those areas and then you wouldn't have to toll.
besides people in the city would still have to pay the toll if they went out there, so its a win/win for the sprawlers. just break ground already.
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