2000-2005 Who's better, Kobe or T-Mac?

[milkshakeballa]

Before Gasol showed up Kobe didn't make the playoffs once and lost twice in the first round. The debate was definitely legit because you saw what Kobe did by himself with an average team. Not much more than T-Mac.

T-mac was a pretty good player. 28.3 is pretty darn good for anyone in the playoffs. Maybe with a different team he could have went further, maybe not, but he did have some amazing skill and talent.

Kobe is definitely tougher than T-Mac that is for sure, but still you can't say T-Mac is a piece of .

I take Kobe over him though any day of the week because I don't really like soft players and T-Mac has been soft at times to say the least.

So re ed...

Kobe played a 60+ win Suns team and took them to 7 games

Replace Kobe with TMac and the Lakers get swept...at most go to 5 games.

Put Kobe on that Orlando Magic team....OR th houston teams

Do those teams get out of the first round???? YES OR NO?

[milkshakeballa]

Kobe got/gets the all-defensive nods based on reputation and hype. No doubt he has the ability to play great defense but he rarely utilizes that ability. Rarely will he guard the opposing team's best wing... he's had guys like Fox, George, Ariza, and now Artest to do that for him throughout his entire career. There will be the rare occasions where he'll sparingly guard guys like Tmac, Wade, Bron, etc but moreso for selfish reasons and to try to make a point that he's the best. Aside from a few obvious choices which are chosen correctly, all-defensive teams have always been a joke and you mostly see superstar guards get the nod over guys that actually earn their paycheck by playing defense. As far as Tmac being a loser and not winning, he didnt have Shaq. He's never even had anyone as good as Pau, Yao was young and wasnt ready yet when Tmac was healthy.

With that said, I choose Kobe but its alot closer than some of you homers think.

This is pathetic.

I agree with you Kobe = 1 team defense on HYPE as of 2005. Shaq left and Kobe shouldered the scoring load...its obvious his D was not going be great. But the first 5 years....he didn't deserve it? That is so ing ridiculous. He was a TOP 3 defender in the NBA at that time...as a ing kid. Fox Horry guarded the best perimter player??? STFU if you don't know what the you are talking about.

And I love this gem:

There will be the rare occasions where he'll sparingly guard guys like Tmac, Wade, Bron, etc but moreso for selfish reasons and to try to make a point that he's the best.

I love it....I'm not even going to address it...so sad

[Killakobe81]

McGrady has a playoff scoring average of 28.53 ppg, good for 5th all time.

Kobe has 25.03 ppg.

McGrady can do something in the playoffs, given the right team.

Yes Mcgrady can do SOMETHING in the playoffs ...sCORE! LOL!

[FkLA]

So re ed...

Kobe played a 60+ win Suns team and took them to 7 games

Replace Kobe with TMac and the Lakers get swept...at most go to 5 games.

Put Kobe on that Orlando Magic team....OR th houston teams

Do those teams get out of the first round???? YES OR NO?

Not re ed at all...

Tmacs teams in Orlando were normally 8th seeds, and in the infamous 'feels good to get out of the first round' series they had a 3-1 lead on the 1st seed Detroit. He was far from being the reason they blew that lead...with the Houston teams I dont think they ever managed a Top 4 seed with HCA. Again they took the Mavs to 7 games that one series and yet again he was far from being the reason why they lost.

Replace Tmac with Kobe, during the Shaq years and Tmac has some rings as well.

[mogrovejo]

For those 5 years, McGrady was better.

[FkLA]

This is pathetic.

I agree with you Kobe = 1 team defense on HYPE as of 2005. Shaq left and Kobe shouldered the scoring load...its obvious his D was not going be great. But the first 5 years....he didn't deserve it? That is so ing ridiculous. He was a TOP 3 defender in the NBA at that time...as a ing kid. Fox Horry guarded the best perimter player??? STFU if you don't know what the you are talking about.

And I love this gem:




I love it....I'm not even going to address it...so sad

Kobe rarely guarded the opposing teams best players during the regular season, thats a fact go check the tapes. Kobe got rewarded for simply having the ability to be a shutdown guy not for going out and doing it. Its not like he didnt have a significant scoring load to carry when Shaq was there, he was still a focal point on offense. On defense you had guys like George or Fox guarding the best wings.

[Smooth Criminal]

I wrote that in there as an under exaggeration. I thought someone might pick that out, but I can't believe even the smallest details you guys try to find to prop Kobe up.

This here is the whole thing. Kobe should be compared to a T-Mac, not guys like Tim Duncan and Shaq. If Shaq could have played the decade better in the second half Kobe would be the 3rd best player.

If you want to start comparing Kobe from say 2008 to whenever he decides to not play anymore then that would be better than constantly trying to ram him down everyone's throat.

So if 3rd Best played better he would be 2nd Best? Mind Boggling concept there.

[21_Blessings]

Kobe got/gets the all-defensive nods based on reputation and hype.

No he didn't. Kobe is an amazing defender and there is plenty of evidence of Kobe shutting down elite wing players during the playoffs and season.

No doubt he has the ability to play great defense but he rarely utilizes that ability. Rarely will he guard the opposing team's best wing... he's had guys like Fox, George, Ariza, and now Artest to do that for him throughout his entire career.

George

Kobe always got the assignment of the best wing when the game was on the line. You are seriously dumb.

There will be the rare occasions where he'll sparingly guard guys like Tmac, Wade, Bron,

Again, you don't know what you are talking about. Kobe always guards Wade. He guarded Wade over Ariza and Ron - consistently shuts him down the past couple seasons. Kobe ALWAYS asked to guard T-Mac and destroyed him on both ends of the court time and time again. It was pretty obvious that Kobe was the superior player. Kobe defended James over Ariza and shut him down last season.

etc but moreso for selfish reasons and to try to make a point that he's the best. Aside from a few obvious choices which are chosen correctly, all-defensive teams have always been a joke

The only joke is a your posting. It's hilarious how little you know about basketball. NBA coaches opinion > Your re ed ignorant opinion.

and you mostly see superstar guards get the nod over guys that actually earn their paycheck by playing defense. As far as Tmac being a loser and not winning, he didnt have Shaq. He's never even had anyone as good as Pau, Yao was young and wasnt ready yet when Tmac was healthy.

T-Mac + healthy Yao = first round exit. Ron Artest + Yao = 2nd round exit

With that said, I choose Kobe but its alot closer than some of you homers think.

It's not even close. Never was. Never will be.

[FkLA]

The tapes dont lie...

Tmac+young Yao=no HCA and 1st round exit, no shame in that and again Tmac was far from being the reason for those exits. Side him along Shaq during the ealry 2000s when Shaq was the MDE and he'll have some rings as well. Kobe has done no better than Tmac when he has had limited talent.

[21_Blessings]

Lakers don't win in 2000, 2002 and 2009 with T-Quit.

[FkLA]

What did Kobe do when he had Odom and Caron plus a bunch of scrubs? Failed just as miserably as Tmac. I also recall Kobe blatanly quitting on his team in Game 7 against the Suns, 'T-quit' never did that.

[Muser]

Lakers win rings, but they don't 3-peat with Mac.

[21_Blessings]

I also recall Kobe blatanly quitting on his team in Game 7 against the Suns, 'T-quit' never did that.

T-Mac would have quit on the 05/06 Lakers before the season even started. Just like he did in Orlando. Probably would have lost 18 straight again.

[21_Blessings]

Lakers win rings, but they don't 3-peat with Mac.

Even though Kobe destroyed the Spurs in 2001, T-Mac probably wins with that team. Fisher and Horry were shooting like 60% from the arc.

2000 and 2002 the Lakers would have collapsed against the Blazers/Kings with McGrady out there instead of Kobe. Not enough poise or defense.

[Indazone]

The offense of the Rockets is made for the shot to go to the open man with lots of motion. However what I know of the motion offense is that it is built in layers and there is room for an offensive superstar. Adleman not playing T-Mac now means one of two things. 1. T-Mac is a has-been. Perhaps a step slower without the elevation in his shot 2. T-Mac is in Adleman's doghouse.

I tend to think it's a combination of the two.

That being said, I think T-Mac does better in the Triangle Offense or traditional High Pick and Roll set offense. T-Mac needs to play off the pick and roll to succeed. He belongs to another team now. It will be interesting to see if he can regain his form. I think he can.

[Killakobe81]

Again sawp someone else with Kobe argument ...you guys are funny. Things Im not a "Kobe" fan I am a Laker fan but the hate thrown Kobe or the unwillingness to give him props is funny... TMAC seriously?! Great talent great scorer but ty defender (Except first few years) and the next BIG shot he hits will be his first he (career) is not even the best player in his own family ... but as a scorer for those 5 years? Few have done it better than TMAC ...in those 5 years the best SCORERs were TMAC and AI ...better player? Kobe and Duncan

[21_Blessings]

Kobe has seasons @ 28 and 30 ppg next to Shaq demanding the ball. If Kobe was stuck on a ty eastern conference team he would have been outscoring both T-Mac and Iverson and doing it more efficiently. They were never better scorers than Kobe. Not when Kobe had a developed post-game, fadeaway since his early 20's.

[Killakobe81]

Kobe has seasons @ 28 and 30 ppg next to Shaq demanding the ball. If Kobe was stuck on a ty eastern conference team he would have been outscoring both T-Mac and Iverson and doing it more efficiently. They were never better scorers than Kobe. Not when Kobe had a developed post-game, fadeaway since his early 20's.

Agreed 21 blessing but that is a hypothetical. Just as if TMAC was on Lakers he would have 4 rings ...you cant have it both ways. Thing that is funny Kobe critics use stats to make arguments for players (MJ, Lebron, Wade) being better than Kobe but when that fails they us bull hypotheticals such as swap: Melo pierce joe johnson or Wade ...

Not a big stat guy or in to hypotheticals ...
Kobe is and was better but TMAC put up numbers he was the better scorer Kobe the better player ...

[21_Blessings]

Agreed 21 blessing but that is a hypothetical. Just as if TMAC was on Lakers he would have 4 rings

TMAC wouldn't have 4 rings if he was on the Lakers. Kobe scoring lots of points in his athletic prime on a ty eastern team with no Shaq to defer to is a certainty.

Kobe is and was better but TMAC put up numbers he was the better scorer Kobe the better player ...

Kobe had the much better post-game, was more clutch, and a more consistent mid-range jumper. I'll take that scoring skillset over Orlando T-Mac's iso dribbling top of the key for 20 seconds and launching long 2 and 3 pointers most of the game. Mostly resulting in a loss.

[Killakobe81]

TMAC wouldn't have 4 rings if he was on the Lakers. Kobe scoring lots of points in his athletic prime on a ty eastern team with no Shaq to defer to is a certainty.



Kobe had the much better post-game, was more clutch, and a more consistent mid-range jumper. I'll take that scoring skillset over Orlando T-Mac's iso dribbling top of the key for 20 seconds and launching long 2 and 3 pointers most of the game. Mostly resulting in a loss.

I am not saying THAT I was pointing to Kobe's detractors ...
I am just saying for MY argument I dont just go by stats or hypotheticals ....
I think we BOTH agree that Kobe is better but I just said TMAC was better scorer ...becuase you are correct he was the main option for a ty tem and a weak conference but the scoring les he won does put him in select company ...

[21_Blessings]

Well you're confusing Killkobe. You said Mac was the better scorer because he had better scoring numbers. Then you say you don't go by stats.

I'm not saying T-Mac wasn't a ridiculous scorer because he was. I even bought his shoes a couple times back in the day and used some of his moves in pick up basketball. But he wasn't on Kobe's level - which isn't an insult considering Kobe's already one of the top 10 players of all-time at only 31..

[Indazone]

T-Mac should not be done by any means. He is only 30 years old. If nothing he should be at his basketball playing peak. He gets over this injury, he'll be as good as he ever was.

[mavsfan1000]

Good thread. T-Mac had nothing in his prime years. Kobe had Shaq who was the most dominating player. I think T-Mac would've had the same success as Kobe if he was in place of Kobe through the Shaq years. Injuries have totally taken its toll on T-Mac and he won't ever be the same again.

[Roxsfan]

Stats from the two during the 5 year period:

Tracy McGrady: 74.6 Games | 44.3% FG | 35.2% 3FG | 6.8 rpg | 5.3 apg | 1.6 spg | 0.9 bpg | 2.6 topg | 27.6 ppg

Kobe Bryant: 72 Games | 45.2% FG | 33.3% 3FG | 5.9 rpg | 5.4 apg | 1.7 spg | 0.6 bpg | 3.2 topg | 27.1 ppg

How depressing........tmac was a bad ass. I take tmac back then. Kobe wins with longevity, durabilty and les. So sad for mac, and the rox.

[Unholy Turkey]

During the 1st round exit years Kobe, his best teammate was Lamar Odom right?

That's much better than anything T-mac had in his Orlando days