Gasol, Phil Jackson upset about Kobe's shooting

[HarlemHeat37]

Kobe's "ball-hogging" is one of the most played out arguments of this decade..

I never understand why my fellow haters like to point it out all the time, it just gives Laker fan ammunition for a counter-attack..

There's no doubt that he had to shoot a lot with a relatively poor supporting cast in 2005 and 2006..I never understood why anybody would criticize him for that, there was nobody else on those teams that could consistently produce..Kobe shooting a lot was the best option..it's not like he was inefficient, he had normal efficiency..

yes, he's shooting a lot right now, but his usage % isn't any different than it was during the playoffs of the last 2 years..the Lakers made the Finals in one of the years and they won the le in the other..he isn't getting any more touches than he did in those 2 successful seasons, so I don't really see why people have to point that out against him..it's especially strange to point it out following a game where he had one of his most efficient games in months..


Kobe is extremely overhyped, he's a POS, he's selfish in every aspect of the game(not ball-hogging, but personality-wise), he's too arrogant, he's fake, he's probably a rapist..his organization, Al-Quobe, is one of the most disgusting terrorist fanbase on the planet..but you can't really hate on him for this kind of stuff, it doesn't make too much sense..

[TheMACHINE]

And I don't really worry too much about the Spurs. They are what they are. The Spurs winning a championship doesn't make me a better person, unlike the profound effects the Lakers winning has to do with you.

spoken like a fan of a team that only won 4 rings in the past 50 years

[TheMACHINE]

Did you watch the game?

No.

Ok. Then STFU.

[NBAfan83]

Maybe Kobe heard too many Kobe can't win anything without Pau Gasol and decided to impose his will, so that everyone who cares knows that the lakers is Kobe Bryant's team and he wins championship with little help?

Who knows, when your a genius, your bound to be ed up in the head in one way or another.

[cobbler]

We'll you guys obviously arent leaving it at that either so that works both ways...

And very few Laker fan actually fess up to Kobe's flaws. There are so many Laker fans that are Kobe fans before they are Laker fans.

Who started the thread? A Kobe hater. Who starts the majority of the Kobe threads here? Kobe/Laker Haters. What does it matter when you become a fan or why. I have been a Laker fan long before you were born so does than make me any MORE of a fan than someone who just became one this year or last? I don't think so. Again, I don't see the relevance.

And that had nothing to do with Kobe and Shaq's feud right? Shaq's "pay me" remarks had alot to do with him challenging Buss to pick one or the other. Kobe had the same mindset and had already acknowledged that he wasnt willing to play second fiddle.

So thank you for admitting that is was actually Shaqs actions that put Buss in choose one or the other mode. But the facts are Buss made his decision based on finances and work ethic. And all parties have acknowledged it. SO to say "kobe ran shaq" out of town is just plain inflamitory and you know it.

Did he really? Not saying he didnt, but I'd like a link since I find it surprising. Either way it seems like it may have been more of a feud with the coach than with the organization itself. Kobe on the other hand was basically ready to give up on the team because things werent going his way.

Johnson and the Lakers rebounded in 1981-82, winning their division and defeating the 76ers in another six-game NBA Finals in which Johnson repeated as MVP. The season also had its share of ugliness. Early on, Westhead wanted to restructure the offense in a way that Johnson believed would have reduced his role. In a widely reported incident, Johnson exploded in the lockerroom after a game in Utah. "I can't play here anymore. I want to leave. I want to be traded," he was quoted as saying. Reporters waited for the signal that Johnson was joking. It didn't come.

Westhead was fired the next day and replaced with assistant coach Pat Riley. At Riley's first home game, fans at the Forum booed Johnson during introductions. In Seattle he was jeered whenever he touched the ball. He paid the price in the All-Star balloting and was not selected as a starter for the only time in his career other than his injury season. It took Johnson's stellar playoff performance to silence the hecklers.

http://www.nba.com/history/players/johnsonm_bio.html

You are aware I said he's been shooting around 30% on 30 shots over the last month or so right? Regarding the injury, it is a small bone chip break. It happens with severely jammed fingers, so no I do not find it remarkable. I just find it to be another case of the media hyping Kobe's legend, just like they make a big deal out of his "aching back" or "hobbled ankle". The same type of that players used to be expected to play through rather than be glorified as warriors.

Give me a break with the small bone chip. I don't care if it was chipped at all and just a jammed finger. You tape up a jammed index finger and try shooting. Even moreso try reaching in and blocking shots or passes. Anyone who has ever played the game knows damn well its difficult and constantly up for re-injury. So now it's Kobe and Laker fans fault for what the media does. Kobe plays hurt better than any player in the game toady and quite possible ever. Why wouldnt the media report that? Again, your hatred distorts your reality.

And its kind of dumb to compare 30% on 30 shots by one player to 30% on 3 shots by Bynum dont you think? Or 7 shots by Gasol? Like I said Id understand if those guys were having off-nights and the game developed into Kobe needing to take over because the other guys werent doing , but when those guys never even get a chance to get into a rythm or prove that theyre indeed having an off-night than I dont see no justification to Kobe's chucking. He shot more shots than the rest of the entire starting line-up combined. .

But they were having off nights. And had you actually WATCHED the game you would have known that. But you already admitted you didn't watch the game so you are basing your comments on a box score which is not an accurate account.

Also for the record, Ive given Kobe his props. He's still the second best player in the game and one of the all-time greats...I just have a problem with Kobe fans that act like he can do no wrong. The guy has had problems with trusting teammates and selfishness his entire career yet youd never know that the way some of you guys talk about him.

Those guys who cannot admit Kobe has faults and act like he can do no wrong are just as idiotic as the haters like you. Your comments that have no base in fact is no different than theirs. I amagine the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Maybe you should actually watch the games rather than qualify your kobsesson with box score numbers. You might actually get something right.

[ambchang]

spoken like a fan of a team that only won 4 rings in the past 50 years

Is this all you could come up with? What about the contradictions you were spotting, care to elaborate on those?

I chose the Spurs as the basketball team I would root for, and I would do it no matter how good or how bad they are. I went through the 21-win season, I went through the 62-win season and the WCF collapse. I don't feel ashamed of them, I don't feel proud of them. Because obviously, my actions have absolutely no effect on the team's success/failure.

The Lakers is a fantastic organization, it really deserves more knowledgable fans.

[TheMACHINE]

Is this all you could come up with? What about the contradictions you were spotting, care to elaborate on those?

I chose the Spurs as the basketball team I would root for, and I would do it no matter how good or how bad they are. I went through the 21-win season, I went through the 62-win season and the WCF collapse. I don't feel ashamed of them, I don't feel proud of them. Because obviously, my actions have absolutely no effect on the team's success/failure.

The Lakers is a fantastic organization, it really deserves more knowledgable fans.

cool story, bro. brought a tear to my eyes.

[cobbler]

Is this all you could come up with? What about the contradictions you were spotting, care to elaborate on those?

I chose the Spurs as the basketball team I would root for, and I would do it no matter how good or how bad they are. I went through the 21-win season, I went through the 62-win season and the WCF collapse. I don't feel ashamed of them, I don't feel proud of them. Because obviously, my actions have absolutely no effect on the team's success/failure.

The Lakers is a fantastic organization, it really deserves more knowledgable fans.

So you have no effect on the success/failure of something you support. To each his own. How is this news? And how is it news the other way around for those of us who do have an effect on team success and/or failure?

What is your point? That you are somehow superior to others because you have no impact? Ok then....

[Killakobe81]

Pau whines about enough touches? and I AGREE Kobe forced some hots last night ... I KNOW I WAS AT the game last night.
However Pau has no excuse for the times he gets "touches" but fails to produce or anything or kicks out rather than "re-posting" ...

Look I dont care who hates the way kobe plays ball ... because that is your right. I could undertstand that volume shooting may not be everyone's cup of tea. But don't give me that MJ didnt do the samething stuff ...because EVEN though he has a better career FG% without looking at the stats i bet his shot total and % of points scored are similar to Kobe's even though he played with another HOF'er ...

Last night bynum was in foul trouble as was Pau in the 1st half ...
To me it is never a problem if Kobe shoots my issues are more when they break the offense too much and it's not just kobe, Fisher, Jordan all do this far to often.

If they ran the offense and kobe took 30 shots and 90% were open looks that would be great offense ...regardless if one guys was hot (as kobe was) and taking the majority of the shots that is SMART basketball ...

When the team doesnt Kobe will take (and make at times) bad shots, Fish and farmar are chucking shots and the ball doesnt go inside ...

All that said Kobe put on a great show we lost but i think the 2nd of back to backs had more to do with than anything else

We missed at least 7 FT's, artest left Rudy wide-open and missed a good lok at a GW 2 pointer and we had some silly TO's

[MiamiHeat]

you guys sound angry. need relaxation? do some yoga

[HarlemHeat37]

Apparently Bynum is complaining about touches too..interesting..

[TheMACHINE]

Apparently Bynum is complaining about touches too..interesting..

Morrison too.

[j.dizzle]

Morrison too.

Son, thats funny cuz I also heard the water & towel boys are complaining about touches too.

[MiamiHeat]

Kobe should say, em, I gotta legacy to build.

Will you support that at ude if the Lakers do not win another championship?

[TheNextGen]

My two cents:

I think the OP is misplacing blame. 16 for 28 is awesome and would be happy if Ginobli did that during a game. In regards to Bynum and Gasol only having 10 total shots....as bigs, that is unaceptable. A good part of thier shot attempts should come in way of offensive rebounds and putting the ball back up. Lets check thier rebounds. Both bigs had a total of 17 rebounds compared to Z-bo's 17 and Marcs 13. Thats where the problem lies. Gasol and Bynum needs to match Kobe's aggresion.

[MiamiHeat]

My two cents:

I think the OP is misplacing blame. 16 for 28 is awesome and would be happy if Ginobli did that during a game. In regards to Bynum and Gasol only having 10 total shots....as bigs, that is unaceptable. A good part of thier shot attempts should come in way of offensive rebounds and putting the ball back up. Lets check thier rebounds. Both bigs had a total of 17 rebounds compared to Z-bo's 17 and Marcs 13. Thats where the problem lies. Gasol and Bynum needs to match Kobe's aggresion.

Jumpshots create long rebounds. That's a fact of basketball.

So Kobe being a volume jump shooter makes most of LA's possessions into long rebounds which the bigs have little chance to grab for a putback.

[ambchang]

So you have no effect on the success/failure of something you support. To each his own. How is this news? And how is it news the other way around for those of us who do have an effect on team success and/or failure?

What is your point? That you are somehow superior to others because you have no impact? Ok then....

You have an effect on the success of the Lakers? You mean you have something to do with the LA Lakers winning 10 les and the Minneapolis Lakers winning another 5?

How so, because you spent $200 on a ticket and bought some pink Kobe jerseys?

[ambchang]

cool story, bro. brought a tear to my eyes.

It is moving, I know.

Let's talk about my contradiction after you finished crying, shall we?

[ChrisRichards]

i'm going to add this quote in this thread since chrisrichards/miamiheat missed it.

Thanks

Come on Laker fans....

Kobe was JACKING up last night...you don't agree with this??? He has been jacking up for the past month....why I have no clue. The guy has a broken ign finger and he is still launching up. It is ridiculous. This Lakers team has one of the top 20 front courts in NBA history...and we are playing outside in. it is ING mind boggling and frustrating. And it isn't just Kobe....Fisher jacks up ridiculous quite often, Farmar is a selfish punk asss , Brown has struggled the last few weeks and cannot initiate the tri. Pau should be at 15 shots a game MINIMUM and Drew should be at 12-13.


I do think Kobe realizes this...I honestly just don't think he gives a right now. Come playoff time though....I think everybody here knows Kobe is going to be dominating scoring AND facilitating and will keep the selfish bull at the door...

Mother effin truth right here coming from an unbiased Laker fan.


Respeck!

[Obstructed_View]

Kobe is a scorer, a great scorer, one of the best scorers of all time, but beyond that there's not much to him. He seems to really have trouble grasping team basketball because he never played it or was asked to play it until he became a pro. That said, he's worked at it and improved, because the old Kobe never had a prayer of winning an MVP award.

He's always going to go through periods where he's going to

• take no shots, thinking he's helping his team
• jack up at the end of every quarter because he thinks he's clutch, or
• take all the shots because he thinks scoring a lot of individual points is going to help his team win.

He's had some measure of success with all of those tactics due to

• his ability to draw defenders
• his ability to hit very low-percentage shots at a relatively high rate
• his ability to score points at a relatively efficient rate when he shoots in volume
• his ability to draw calls, if not draw fouls, both of which are skills.

He's by no means perfect, and far from the greatest Laker of all time, let alone being mentioned as an all-time great player, but there's little doubt that he makes the Lakers better by being on the team (something that wasn't always the case), and his teammates and coaches should realize the strides that he's made from the super talented team-killer that he was only a few years ago enough not to rock the boat while they seem to be rounding into form.

[ChrisRichards]

Kobe is a scorer, a great scorer, one of the best scorers of all time, but beyond that there's not much to him. He seems to really have trouble grasping team basketball because he never played it or was asked to play it until he became a pro. That said, he's worked at it and improved, because the old Kobe never had a prayer of winning an MVP award.


He's always going to go through periods where he's going to

• take no shots, thinking he's helping his team
• jack up at the end of every quarter because he thinks he's clutch, or
• take all the shots because he thinks scoring a lot of individual points is going to help his team win.

He's had some measure of success with all of those tactics due to

• his ability to draw defenders
• his ability to hit very low-percentage shots at a relatively high rate
• his ability to score points at a relatively efficient rate when he shoots in volume
• his ability to draw calls, if not draw fouls, both of which are skills.

He's by no means perfect, and far from the greatest Laker of all time, let alone being mentioned as an all-time great player, but there's little doubt that he makes the Lakers better by being on the team (something that wasn't always the case), and his teammates and coaches should realize the strides that he's made from the super talented team-killer that he was only a few years ago enough not to rock the boat while they seem to be rounding into form.

I know Kobe fans always think there's going to be a turn around at one point from this guy, but that never happens.


Kobe will play a good game shooting less than 20 shots while dishing 8 assists a game and the Lakers would not win, but DOMINATE.


next game, when you think Kobe has it figured out, he will have a 11/28 shooting and disregard his teammates.


Kobe is just an overrated player by greatest players of all time standards. he's very good, but he's not Top 20 great.

[TheMACHINE]

My two cents:

I think the OP is misplacing blame. 16 for 28 is awesome and would be happy if Ginobli did that during a game. In regards to Bynum and Gasol only having 10 total shots....as bigs, that is unaceptable. A good part of thier shot attempts should come in way of offensive rebounds and putting the ball back up. Lets check thier rebounds. Both bigs had a total of 17 rebounds compared to Z-bo's 17 and Marcs 13. Thats where the problem lies. Gasol and Bynum needs to match Kobe's aggresion.

/end thread

[TheMACHINE]

Jumpshots create long rebounds. That's a fact of basketball.

So Kobe being a volume jump shooter makes most of LA's possessions into long rebounds which the bigs have little chance to grab for a putback.

Wrong, if you are trying to get offensive rebounds. Jumpshots that create long rebounds favor the offensive team, not the defensive team.

Try again.

[ChrisRichards]

Wrong, if you are trying to get offensive rebounds. Jumpshots that create long rebounds favor the offensive team, not the defensive team.

Try again.

Eh. problem with that is the Lakers are not a good offensive rebounding team which pretty much why the Lakers are killed in transition

[Mike D]

If Gasol went 16/28 and was the only player who played any defense, and Kobe got completely abused and outplayed by OJ Mayo (who happened to be his little brother) and Rudy Gay....would anyone blame the loss on Gasol and say he shot too much?