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  1. #101
    Veteran Mel_13's Avatar
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    Eventually, the discussion finds its way back to the OP (sometimes?).


    Except for one small point, I agreed with everything in your OP. That portion of Harlem's post just distilled it down to it's essence.

  2. #102
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    Eventually, the discussion finds its way back to the OP (sometimes?).
    Black, your OP was tops, as usual...

    Nowadays, I just hope that they play hard every night, that's all. Sometimes it will be enough to win and sometimes it won't be.
    One day I think we need to take on the possibility that some players might just not be listening anymore. I wonder sometimes what goes on Mason's head or even RJ, who didn't see the floor in OT at all. They all say the right things, but I'm not sure they really are on the same page.

  3. #103
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    It's hard to tell what's serious and what isn't with you. You bring really weak to almost every post.
    You sound ALMOST EXACTLY like TPark...

    OK, I'll admit, technically he can play 15 minutes, albeit at a really low level that wouldn't help the Spurs.
    So you admit you were wrong. Good, that's a good start.
    And wether he could help the Spurs or not, is entirely opinion.

    Can't take what, your asinine posts? You're right. They are so contradictory and fallacious it makes my head hurt.
    You admit you're wrong, but my posts are asinine?
    I mean, the only one having problems with my posts is you.
    Again, this is how it works: You bring the weak sauce, you get called out for it. It's not that hard. It shouldn't make your head hurt at all.

  4. #104
    Believe. MrFundamental's Avatar
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    It's hard to tell what's serious and what isn't with you. You bring really weak to almost every post.


    So you admit you were wrong. Good, that's a good start.
    I was kind of wrong about minutes. He isn't playing 20/game. Let me know when the season is over and he didn't miss a game was was still averaging above 15.


    You admit you're wrong, but my posts are asinine?
    I mean, the only one having problems with my posts is you.
    Again, this is how it works: You bring the weak sauce, you get called out for it. It's not that hard. It shouldn't make your head hurt at all.
    Yes, I got called out for bringing up a single game when you used 2.

    I guess I should call the medics cause I got burned after that one.

  5. #105
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    I was kind of wrong about minutes. He isn't playing 20/game. Let me know when the season is over and he didn't miss a game was was still averaging above 15.
    You want to make this about the amount of minutes and it's irrelevant.
    Did Matt Bonner play every game for the Spurs? No.
    The point is that he's not a washed up 37 years old with a bad back and can still play some minutes for his team.

    Or are you going to deny that you said he was a 37 year old with a bad back?

    Yes, I got called out for bringing up a single game when you used 2.
    I guess I should call the medics cause I got burned after that one.
    I offered to compare Ratliff blocking career averages against Bonner, but you declined. Hey, again, you bring the weak sauce, and you get called out for it...

  6. #106
    Believe. MrFundamental's Avatar
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    You want to make this about the amount of minutes and it's irrelevant.
    I made it about the amount of minutes to start with.
    Did Matt Bonner play every game for the Spurs? No.
    No, isn't that a good thing?
    The point is that he's not a washed up 37 years old with a bad back and can still play some minutes for his team.
    Are you extrapolating an entire season based on 2 games?

    Or are you going to deny that you said he was a 37 year old with a bad back?
    I said that and still do, he's not going to last the rest of the season for Charlotte avg. 20 minutes a game.

    I offered to compare Ratliff blocking career averages against Bonner, but you declined. Hey, again, you bring the weak sauce, and you get called out for it...
    Ha, might as well bring back ing Manute Bol then, his career block average was higher then Ratliffs.

  7. #107
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    You want to play Hairston/Mahinmi or D-League players when Spurs are trying to make the playoffs? Do you know what would happen if Pop did this and they fall to 9th or 10th place? Good God! Fans need to realize the grass is not always greener on the other side of the mountain. If Hairston or Mahinmi wants to play let them earn a spot by showing it in practice. Putting these two out there 'so we can see what they can do' is something no coach would do during a regular season game.
    They are losing without putting those players on the Court. Usually they are losing because they do not have enough gas to finish the game.

  8. #108
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    I made it about the amount of minutes to start with.
    No you didn't:

    Yes, it's because Pops likes small ball, not that he's a ~37 y/o center with a bad back, that he didn't see playing time.
    No, isn't that a good thing?
    Irrelevant. That's not what we're talking about here.

    Are you extrapolating an entire season based on 2 games?
    I'm not, are you?

    I said that and still do, he's not going to last the rest of the season for Charlotte avg. 20 minutes a game.
    No, this is what you said:

    Yes, it's because Pops likes small ball, not that he's a ~37 y/o center with a bad back, that he didn't see playing time.
    There's no need to backpedal now...


    Ha, might as well bring back ing Manute Bol then, his career block average was higher then Ratliffs.
    Moving the goalposts won't help you. Let's hear it one more time: You bring the weak sauce, you get called out for it.

  9. #109
    Believe. MrFundamental's Avatar
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    OK, you're right, it started with your false claim that the only reason Ratliff wasn't seeing time was because Pops only wanted to play small.

    Irrelevant. That's not what we're talking about here.
    Then why the did you bring up Bonner?

    I'm not, are you?
    You seem to think that Ratliff will continue getting 15/game, so it would seem that you are extrapolating an entire season over 2 games for Charlotte.

    No, this is what you said:

    There's no need to backpedal now...
    So if I never brought up playing time, then why in the do you continue to do so. Holy red herrings.


    Moving the goalposts won't help you. Let's hear it one more time: You bring the weak sauce, you get called out for it.
    You keep repeating that same tired line, yet you still haven't posted anything substantial. If you want to go back to the beginning of the conversation let's do so, but for you to go on one track and try to prove a point, then go back to my initial point when you are shown to be full of and then attempt to call my posts weak is ing hypocritical.

  10. #110
    Believe. MrFundamental's Avatar
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    As I said before, Ratliff was brought in at the beginning of the season because of certain positives, at the trade deadline those positives were outweighed by saving Holt some money. That is why they signed him initially and then traded him for what amounts to cash. Apparently it really was that hard for you to understand.

  11. #111
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    Yes, it's because Pops likes small ball, not that he's a ~37 y/o center with a bad back, that he didn't see playing time.

    We know what you said...

  12. #112
    Believe. MrFundamental's Avatar
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    We know what you said...
    you really are stupid.

    I'm telling you at the time (considering the season isn't static) it was a decent move, now the negatives outweigh the positives in keeping him. Is it that hard to understand?
    Again, apparently that is really hard to understand.

  13. #113
    Believe. MrFundamental's Avatar
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    I can post pictures too

  14. #114
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    you really are stupid.


    Again, apparently that is really hard to understand.
    There's nothing hard to understand about what you said:

    Yes, it's because Pops likes small ball, not that he's a ~37 y/o center with a bad back, that he didn't see playing time.
    LOL indeed...

  15. #115
    Believe. MrFundamental's Avatar
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    I can post pictures too
    ...

  16. #116
    Out with the old... Obstructed_View's Avatar
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    So now we are going to bring up the past to justify the teams inconsistency for the past 54 games?
    No, I'm pointing out history to show that teams with far less talent than the current Spurs team were able to turn completely around with just the players they had. This team's still in playoff contention and at one point was beating teams with relative ease.

    This team has shown zero signs of improvement from day 1.
    Quite the contrary, in fact. They've gotten quite a bit worse as the experiments continue and the bad players get more playing time than the ones with any upside.

    This team is toast. Especially with Mason/Bogans and Bonner playing significant roles. Replacing them with Mahimni and Hairston wouldn't hurt the team anymore than Mason/Bogans and Bonner already are.
    I agree that replacing them wouldn't hurt the team. I'd say moving Mason into a consistent reserve role would do wonders for his game going forward. Punishing guys for mistakes has clearly been a dismal failure, but you won't convince me that this season is toast until the Spurs are eliminated from contention. It'll be a shame if it happens.

  17. #117
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    No, you're never going to replace the Horry's and Bowen's of the world with an equal, identical player. But it's not about finding their carbon copy. You're looking to find comparable skill sets and character that can become a working part of the needed supporting cast -- a different build, personality or area of expertise, there's nothing wrong with that.

    So it's not that they haven't found someone with Horry's clutch shot-making and intelligence as a stretch 4 or that they haven't replaced the relentless, tireless, and lockdown defender Bruce was for years ... it's that they attempted to address each respective loss with players that had neither the tools, a en or ability to even approximate those two's contribution -- if you can't address something adequately, it's an effort in futility to find close enough and hope for the best.

    In other words, don't prevent yourself from finding the next Horry (as it pertains to the team) by thinking he can't look more like Haslem -- chasing the perfect mold, almost always nets an inferior player to fill it.



    Agree. And as it pertains to the corporate knowledge, you're right. They couldn't have brought anyone in to replace it as if it were something tangible. But you've got to attempt to bring in the type of player that's capable of acquiring and utilizing it effectively. You can't simply do without.

    A championship-caliber supporting cast can come in all shapes, sizes and skill sets (as long as they're in compliment to the stars), but there's a common thread with which they're made up and of the character they possess.

    Obviously, the amount of help the Big 3 needs is greater than it's ever been and changed as their effectiveness has waned -- there's no guarantee that the complimentary player of yesteryear has the same effect or benefits as they would've in the past, nowadays. But there's no doubt that without the right supporting cast, a championship's out of the question -- they're out there to be molded in theory, but theories are often left empty.

    There's no getting around needing the right players to win it all, which is why so few ever get the opportunity.



    Well, they've got Hairston and Mahinmi in the fold (which would seem a decent pair to evaluate for the suggested roles), but it's become pretty clear that the latter, for whatever reason, isn't in their plans. There's no reason Hairston shouldn't be given Bogans minutes and the opportunity to prove his worth moving forward, though. And, no, I wouldn't view Bell as the answer on the wing or a position defender like Splitter becoming an athletic, shot-blocking big.



    I've yet to really sit down and put to the screen exactly how I'd move forward. There's just too many variables to consider: Is RJ moveable and at what cost or lack thereof; what's Manu's market and can he be retained without preventing the Spurs from acquiring the needed, complimentary talent to win a le; is moving Tony the only way to bring in enough, or the right, parts to put the team back into contention; is Splitter really going to sign; and what will the Draft bring? To say nothing of the CBA, there's plenty to consider.

    As you and many know, I'm hoping to see McGuire here and given an opportunity next year. I've got to believe he's going to come cheap, given he's a role player that's been buried on an also-ran's bench, but there's no one else I've really targeted of that ilk -- I'm very much open to any and all with the requisite size and tools for each respective role.

    You're echoing my sentiments on this. That's basically what I was saying in my second paragraph.

    I think they flat out didn't do their homework on Jefferson. That, or they just were desperate to do something significant and found acquiring him to be as close as they could come to that or they were arrogant and thought "we're the Spurs, sure Jefferson has been in decline for two years as a defender/rebounder, but under our watch we can make him return to his near All-Star level because if we could have significantly lesser talents playing significant roles on championship teams, why couldn't we make this guy?".

    My thoughts exactly on Hairston/Mahinmi. I wouldn't consider Bell the answer either, but he is an upgrade on Bogans and my guess is the Spurs, rumored to be interested in Bell this season, would jump at the chance to sign him, either with what's left of the mid-level exception after signing Splitter or with the bi-annual exception. You can bring up the Wright's and McGuire's (he in particular, what with his known immaturity and inability to shoot) of the world, but I doubt the Spurs would sign one of them and ask them to fulfill that role, while the Batum's and Ariza's are unavailable -- unless someone bowls either team over. So if the Spurs can't land Bell or someone of that ilk, then don't be surprised if Bogans is re-signed. The Spurs probably view Hairston as their Wright/McGuire.

    Splitter, even though his shot blocking numbers are underwhelming, draftexpress claims he's a vastly improved shot blocker.

    My guess is they fail to land the Batum type they need at SF and the Thomas type they need at PF and instead end up masquerading Splitter as the Thomas type and Bell or Bogans again as the Batum type.


    Spurs are trying to keep playoff position. Huge difference.
    This about covers that...

    Mahimni and Hairston can be doing what Bonner/Mason/Bogans have been doing for the past month.

    They can't do worse. Our defense as is relatively pathetic night in and night out.

    Mahimni and Hairston at least possess more defensive skill sets than any of those three players that are in the rotation.

    And don't tell me they wouldn't be able to grasp the philosophy, they have been in the program long enough to be aware of defensive assignments and the plays offensively.

    I really think Spurs are trying to lower Mahimni's value as much as possible, so they can possibly resign him to a 3-4 year on the cheap ( similar to Blair's).

  18. #118
    @Kap10Jack Blackjack's Avatar
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    Except for one small point, I agreed with everything in your OP. That portion of Harlem's post just distilled it down to it's essence.
    Absolutely, that essence he captured was exactly the reason for the request. But, truth be told (I'm sure you're the only one that will see this ), the OP was never intended to be the subject of a thread. It was originally a response to a Hairston thread, and, like most of my ramblings, slowly and steadily meandered into a much broader take (which is what tends to happen when I'm left feeling punch-drunk and in a general malaise after a Spurs game these days).

    As I touched on to end the OP and Harlem expounded upon (basically giving the rationale to grant my request), it's not difficult to realize what they should be doing: the Spurs need to get busy living, or get busy dying (I guess that would make Pop "Red" and in need of his own "Andy" -- of a movie ).

    Black, your OP was tops, as usual...

    Nowadays, I just hope that they play hard every night, that's all. Sometimes it will be enough to win and sometimes it won't be.
    One day I think we need to take on the possibility that some players might just not be listening anymore. I wonder sometimes what goes on Mason's head or even RJ, who didn't see the floor in OT at all. They all say the right things, but I'm not sure they really are on the same page.
    All you can really do is hope for good health, continued progress from Hill and Blair, and maybe even some playing time for Malik -- which could prevent this year from being a total loss. If they're healthy to end the year (relatively speaking), the young guys have gotten some good experience and you've found out whether Malik's a rotation player moving forward, that's a positive development in my view.

    As for the guys not listening, it's a fair question to ask. The word that comes to mind is "stale" and it's just permeated throughout the whole organization (on and off the court). There's just too much acquiescing going on, whether it's coaches or players, and not enough fire, foot-in-ass or individuality that brings the type of character needed for a team to thrive or sustain.

    This team needed some fresh blood and air from their newer arrivals, what they got were conformists doing their best to not step on anyone's toes; hindsight sure treats Jack well . . .

    I think they flat out didn't do their homework on Jefferson. That, or they just were desperate to do something significant and found acquiring him to be as close as they could come to that or they were arrogant and thought "we're the Spurs, sure Jefferson has been in decline for two years as a defender/rebounder, but under our watch we can make him return to his near All-Star level because if we could have significantly lesser talents playing significant roles on championship teams, why couldn't we make this guy?".
    From what I've gathered, they simply knew the Big 3 wouldn't be enough and that upgrading the talent was an absolute must. The market was deemed to be one for the buyer, but their options were basically Vince or RJ (neither without flaws or an ideal fit). And after they couldn't get Carter without including Hill and Mason, RJ was seemingly viewed as a move that had to be done, given the package they had to offer.

    Having said that, I can't help but feel that the '04 experience Pop had with RJ weighed into the decision pretty heavily. The thing that stood out most to me (when hearing Pop talk about him to start the season), was how he believed RJ would fit in the locker room. How he had a great sense of humor and would really fit in with this group.

    I believe that's what gave Pop the belief (some might say blinders) that he could harness RJ's game and mold it into something that could help to fill the gaps, so to speak, and propel the team moving forward. I'm not sure Pop's able to come to that conclusion or bank on him with Holt's money if he hadn't coached him in '04.

    My thoughts exactly on Hairston/Mahinmi. I wouldn't consider Bell the answer either, but he is an upgrade on Bogans and my guess is the Spurs, rumored to be interested in Bell this season, would jump at the chance to sign him, either with what's left of the mid-level exception after signing Splitter or with the bi-annual exception.
    Health permitting and not knowing for sure what's going to be attainable at the moment, Bell could be a nice pick up -- it'd certainly be expected, from a Spurs standpoint, if the price is right. But I'm not someone who's all that high on him or clamoring for his services.

    You can bring up the Wright's and McGuire's (he in particular, what with his known immaturity and inability to shoot) of the world, but I doubt the Spurs would sign one of them and ask them to fulfill that role, while the Batum's and Ariza's are unavailable -- unless someone bowls either team over. So if the Spurs can't land Bell or someone of that ilk, then don't be surprised if Bogans is re-signed. The Spurs probably view Hairston as their Wright/McGuire.
    McGuire's someone that could seemingly be had on the cheap and could occupy the bench -- I wasn't suggesting letting him take on the Bowen role (maybe some day, but not off the bat). The Spurs are going to have to fill out the roster with some players of his ilk, I'd just prefer he be one of them; it'd be nice to see a potential defender on the wing with his physical attributes in the program (whether you reap the rewards 1, 2 or 3 years from now).

    Splitter, even though his shot blocking numbers are underwhelming, draftexpress claims he's a vastly improved shot blocker.
    I've never formulated my opinion of Splitter's capabilities by his numbers. Its not that there's nothing to glean from them, but there are some things that only need the naked eye: Splitter's success, if it's to be significant, will be in his ability to make people shoot over the top of that big body and his ability to move his feet. Like all guys of his size, he's bound to run into some blocks along the way, but he possesses neither the innate sense of timing or explosiveness to ever be the prototypical shot-blocker -- He'd sure beat the out of RJ, Fin, Bogans and Mason at the rim, though.

    My guess is they fail to land the Batum type they need at SF and the Thomas type they need at PF and instead end up masquerading Splitter as the Thomas type and Bell or Bogans again as the Batum type.
    Damn, Tyrus really was an ideal fit for the times . . .

    Pretty safe assumption, though. But it's just too early to tell what the options really are. I mean, if RJ's gone, that opens up all sorts of possibilities. If Manu's gone, it's hard not to see them having a net loss with whomever they bring in to take his place. And should they trade Tony or have any combination of these three things happen? It's anyone's guess what the will happen.

    For now, I'd be satisfied just to see the Spurs' youth comprise more of the supporting cast; it's time to get a jump on next year.

  19. #119
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    That was obvious and given what they had to offer, Jefferson was the best the Spurs could do. What concerned me from day one was their acting as if he was still the 03-07 Jefferson. It's like they were oblivious to his obvious loss of lateral quickness and bad habits that he had acquired over the past few years.

    Agreed. They seemingly put too much stock in Jefferson's "fitting in in the locker room" and not enough in Jefferson's fitting in on the court. I know he's not a guy who can run pick-and-roll and break people down off the dribble, but he is an established 20 ppg scorer in this league and to see the lack of plays run for him is mind boggling. If anything, I thought they'd be force feeding Jefferson, particular during stretches where they play 4-in-5 or back to back, so that they didn't have to tax the big three, yet could still have enough firepower to win those games.

    Pop has set Jefferson up to fail. It doesn't excuse his poor play, but it is a reason for it. He's utilized him as if he's a prime Marion. He's not now, nor was he ever that type of player. Who brings in a player with 2 years/$29 million remaining on his contract and doesn't let him play to his strengths? It's mind boggling.

    Obviously I can't say for sure, but I have a fairly good idea of what's going to be attainable, in terms of adding a wing stopper and honestly, I can't see a better short term answer than Bell. I'm aware of the obvious pitfalls (age, lack of height/athleticism, etc.), but still.

    I doubt they bring in an athletic wing who can't shoot. I just don't see it. The Spurs look for shooters/defenders on the wing. When's the last time they brought in a raw athlete? I'm guessing Cook and Almond replace Bonner and Finley next year.

    Splitter will probably be good for about 1 bpg. But just to have someone not named Duncan with length (and in Splitter's case, mobility) on the back line will be nice. You think Splitter's better/will turn out better than Varejao and Gortat?

    Thomas was ideal. And acquiring him could have killed two birds with one stone because it would have freed them up to shop Splitter for Batum. They need to give Parker an ultimatum: play for the national team this summer (given the state he's in physically) and we'll be shopping you around. Next year is probably their last shot at even pretending to build a championship team around Duncan and they can't allow it to be undermined by Parker being overly loyal. He's beat up, he needs to rest.
    Last edited by TD 21; 02-23-2010 at 02:58 AM.

  20. #120
    @Kap10Jack Blackjack's Avatar
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    Wow . . .

    I just read this whole thread trying to ascertain MrFundamental's (it's not TPark; too many links and stats) purpose or the basis of his logic, and I've come up empty; apparently practice carries a lot of weight for a team that doesn't do it during the season and playing players like Hairston (who outplayed Bogans for the job) and Mahinmi (who's now the only player other than Tim capable of bringing what he does defensively) as part of the supporting cast is throwing away the season (it's Chicken Little, even).

    Oh, and I especially like the part about adding two more players to the mix is something that's going to be detrimental to the team. I guess the thinking is, why risk disrupting inconsistency by throwing in another variable and risking inconsistency? Well, no need to worry, 'cause Pop still hasn't settled on a rotation (nor does he seem close to doing so), the supporting cast is stale, borderline inept, and it all comes to a head with Bogans and his bountiful minutes -- playing a guy like Hairston in his stead would truly be paramount to tanking, wouldn't it?

    One more thing, they can't risk losing ground? Really? 'Cause what I've been witnessing is a whole bunch of fail with some personnel that's shown no sign of turning it around, so I can't see an argument (a valid one that comes from anyone who's actually watched all parties involved and possesses a decent basketball a en) that wins out on the merits of the players in question: The Spurs are heading to nowhere but an early-ouster or the lottery and playing guys who aren't getting it done, or likely to be here next year, over guys that possibly could, on both counts, makes absolutely zero sense.

    RTB, son.

    R T B . . .

  21. #121
    @Kap10Jack Blackjack's Avatar
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    Pop has set Jefferson up to fail. It doesn't excuse his poor play, but it is a reason for it. He's utilized him as if he's a prime Marion. He's not now, nor was he ever that type of player. Who brings in a player with 2 years/$29 million remaining on his contract and doesn't let him play to his strengths? It's mind boggling.
    I agree, in that it's not one-hundred percent on RJ that he's looked a s of his former self, but I'm not sure having him succeed in the fashion that's got him his money is conducive to winning.

    There are some players that are gifted, talented and viewed as stars because their stats and individual ability impresses or amazes at times. But when you really break them down and ask how much of what they do or excel at would cons ute a winning ball player, someone that's impact on the game isn't quantifiable with stats necessarily, that's where you see their true worth. I'd ask this: What is it about RJ's a en for the game, offensive repertoire or defensive ability that truly stands out? What is there about his game that makes others better or makes the game easier for others, and how useful is he if he's not out in the open court and putting points on the board?

    There's no doubt in my mind Pop and the Spurs could find a way to make RJ look more like the player people have grown accustomed to over the last couple of years, but I'm afraid it'd only translate into the Spurs mirroring the teams he put those numbers up on (which, sadly, they're not too far from).

    Obviously I can't say for sure, but I have a fairly good idea of what's going to be attainable, in terms of adding a wing stopper and honestly, I can't see a better short term answer than Bell. I'm aware of the obvious pitfalls (age, lack of height/athleticism, etc.), but still.
    Like I said, it's not sexy or all that desirable, but it could be a decent pick up at the end of the day -- it seems all but certain if his price is right.

    I doubt they bring in an athletic wing who can't shoot. I just don't see it. The Spurs look for shooters/defenders on the wing. When's the last time they brought in a raw athlete? I'm guessing Cook and Almond replace Bonner and Finley next year.
    See, you're talking about what they're going to do and I was simply stating what I'd like them to do. I don't really have much of a disagreement with the players (or players along the same lines) you've mentioned the Spurs are likely to sign.

    As an aside, apparently McGuire got traded to the Kings for a second-rounder . . .

    Splitter will probably be good for about 1 bpg. But just to have someone not named Duncan with length (and in Splitter's case, mobility) on the back line will be nice. You think Splitter's better/will turn out better than Varejao and Gortat?
    In terms of level of player and status in the league, more or less comparable. Splitter's a more offensively talented player and maybe more gifted than both, but his impact and worth (somewhat like the RJ argument) might not be as great as someone like Varejao (with his hustle, energy and savvy) or Gortat (who's a stronger more disruptive defender). I think he'll be viewed as the better player and probably put up more impressive stats, I just question whether that will mean he's a better, more valuable player.

    Thomas was ideal. And acquiring him could have killed two birds with one stone because it would have freed them up to shop Splitter for Batum. They need to give Parker an ultimatum: play for the national team this summer (given the state he's in physically) and we'll be shopping you around. Next year is probably their last shot at even pretending to build a championship team around Duncan and they can't allow it to be undermined by Parker being overly loyal. He's beat up, he needs to rest.

  22. #122
    Believe.
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    Damn, I think MrFundamental posted all 110 of his posts in this thread....

  23. #123
    real fans go bald mountainballer's Avatar
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    Obviously I can't say for sure, but I have a fairly good idea of what's going to be attainable, in terms of adding a wing stopper and honestly, I can't see a better short term answer than Bell. I'm aware of the obvious pitfalls (age, lack of height/athleticism, etc.), but still.
    for quite some time I would have agreed, even at this deadline, if we got Bell as a fall back option instead of getting nothing.
    however, this summer I would really hate to see such a move. another time a then 34 years old player. no. as long as the argument was, this is the best to extend the championship window, it made some sense. but in the current situation it's just a move with no upside but a lot of downside for the future. (once more a washed up guy takes the minutes a player like Hairstone, or another young guy, would desperately need for his development).
    not that I knew a great option, especially when thinking that the best offer will be the LLE (assuming MLE, or major part of it will go to Splitter).
    Daniels signed for the LLE with Boston. I guess this will be the bar. we won't get a player who can be a stopper AND is a good shooter for that money.
    Antoine Wright might be an interesting option for the LLE. his shooting has improved in the last 2 years and he could be a decent defender in a good system. no real stopper of course. I'm still hoping that Hairston develops this qualities.
    btw. Mo Evans has a player option this summer. maybe he opts out, his role with the Hawks has decreased. he makes 2.5 million per. yes, he isn't young any more either, but at 31 he should have 2 or 3 decent years left. if I remember right, the Spurs were interested in signing him in 2006. maybe there is enough left from the MLE after Splitter to offer him. (like Splitter gets 3years/10M and Evans 3years/7.5M)

    Splitter will probably be good for about 1 bpg. But just to have someone not named Duncan with length (and in Splitter's case, mobility) on the back line will be nice. You think Splitter's better/will turn out better than Varejao and Gortat?
    Splitter is a much more talented player than both. no doubt about that. if this guarantees that he will provide more impact? don't know. but for me the point is: it could happen. he could become a decent to good NBA player. I mean Marc Gasol or Scola level.
    Spurs currently have very little of those options, where the best case is a starter quality player.
    Splitter isn't a shot blocker, right.
    we still have this draft and a pick from 14 to 22.
    this draft is deep in 2 areas, that's power bigs (PF, PF/C) and combo forwards.
    if we see Tim-Blair-Splitter-Dice as our rotation next year and Splitter-Blair as core for the future, a mobile shotblocker looks like the best compliment for both situations. I'm a big fan of Greg Monroe, but maybe Ekpe Udoh is the better option considering this. with Jerome Jordan as a fall back option.

  24. #124
    2 Doors Down BillMc's Avatar
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    You want to play Hairston/Mahinmi or D-League players when Spurs are trying to make the playoffs? Do you know what would happen if Pop did this and they fall to 9th or 10th place? Good God! Fans need to realize the grass is not always greener on the other side of the mountain. If Hairston or Mahinmi wants to play let them earn a spot by showing it in practice. Putting these two out there 'so we can see what they can do' is something no coach would do during a regular season game.
    This!

  25. #125
    All worked up Agitator's Avatar
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    Here's what many people have failed to realize: Bowen and Horry are irreplaceable. No, they weren't Hall-of-Famers or even All-Stars, but they were two of the best role players of all-time and they fit this team, both on the court and the culture of the team, to a tee. So it's easy to say "they haven't replaced Bowen, Horry (and to a lesser extent, Barry)", but honestly, they couldn't/can't.

    What they could have done is brought in a legit wing stopper, instead of masquerading Udoka 2.0 as one. They also could have brought in a combo forward who can guard mobile four's, instead of using a mul ude of options to do that, all of which are unappealing and ineffective. But still, nobody they could have realistically brought in would have replaced the "corporate knowledge" of Bowen/Horry.

    I agree, though, that the Spurs need to find out what they have with Mahinmi/Hairston. Bring in an Almond now, find out what he can do. Don't wait until next season and have the same questions with regards to Hairston, or think about the latest one that got away, in Mahinmi (I doubt he makes a Scola level impact and don't get me wrong, I wanted Udrih gone too, but he, like Udrih, could very well show he's a capable rotation player), or wonder "is Almond (insert any D-Leaguer's name you want) an NBA player/fit on this team?". They need to find all of that out now.

    If I'm the front office, I'm already planning for next season. Unfortunately, their two biggest needs: wing stopper and athletic, shot blocking man, are likely to go unfilled. Unless you consider Bell or someone of that ilk the answer to the former and Splitter the answer to the latter.

    Like I said in the "building for the future" thread, I'm guessing Ginobili and Hairston are re-signed and Splitter, Bell, Cook and Almond are signed, which leaves the 1st round pick (I'd assume it'll be an SF or a SF/PF) and third PG left. Is that a championship caliber team? Unless Splitter makes a fairly sizable impact and Bell finds the fountain of youth, it isn't. The others? Filler/cheap replacements for the players likely to depart.
    I was shocked when I heard about them getting traded.

    Still don't understand that.

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