Pop on Hill: "I want him to be Avery."

[DPG21920]

I too would like Hill to hit a game winner in the finals.

[Russ]

Re: Pop on Hill: "I want him to be Avery."

Honey, I shrunk the point guard . . .

[SenorSpur]

So you'd rather Pop not try find the next Horry, or Bowen? Since you don't want the "damn fool" looking for replacements for Horry, and Bowen, you must be satisfied with Bogans and Bonner as adaquate replacements for Horry and Bowen. And I disagree with you that Pop overated Avery, Finley, Vaughn, Van Exel. None of these players were signed huge amounts of money, and other than Avery, none of these players you mentioned were expected to start, nor be anything other than role players. Some like Avery, and Finley, were productive role players, Vaughn was a good 3rd pg, a guy whose always been a solid pro, and who could teach the younger guys how to be a professional. Van Exel didn't work out, but Van Exel, like most of the veterans Pop has signed over years never broke the bank to sign them, and is a great, cost-effective way to sign older players who can still contribute to a team.

You're missing the point. Horry was argubly one of the greatest role players and clutch shooters in NBA postseason history. The likelihood of any player filling such a void for the Spurs is next to impossible. The same goes for Bowen. He was one of the best perimeter defenders in NBA history. Finding another elite defensive stopper of his ability and skill is unlikely. For that matter, it could take a trio of players just to equalize the effects that Bowen had on the defensive end. In attempting to replace both Horry and Bowen, simply plugging in Bonner and Bogans and expecting those kinds of results is short-sighted, at best.

All that said, there is no harm in a coach seeking to replace the skills of stellar players that have come through the organization. It's the public declaration that some new guy is "the next whoever" is what I have an issue with. For Pop to continue cannonizing Avery Johnson is assinine.

First off, Avery WAS a very good leader, but he was a horribly mediocre point guard. In fact, he was a better leader than player. His will and determination kept him in the NBA for so long and he deserves credit for that. However, let's not pretend that Avery was in the category of a John Stockton or a Magic Johnson. , let's not even compare him to Parker, for that matter. We could argue all day whether or not AJ's jersey warranted retirement, but that's another debate.

Your points about Nick Van Exel and Jacque Vaughn are both flawed. I don't give a what either did during his career. I only care about what they did or didn't do, could or couldn't do by the time they arrived here. In the case of NVE, by the time Pop convinced himself he just had to acquire him, the guy was done. I watched the two years that proceeded him coming to the Spurs in 2006 and I can tell you that age, injuries, and poor conditioning robbed him of the skills that made him the feared offensive PG that he was during the Mavs 2003 playoff run. Three years removed from that scintillating playoff run, he was finished. In fact, he talked openly about retiring the season before Pop fell in love with him.

As for Vaughn, he also probably hung around a year or two longer than he should have. Sure, he was a good, solid player in his day. Again, I don't care about that. In the role as exclusively a 3rd PG for the Spurs, he would've been fine. However, Pop couldn't simply live with that. It was his brilliant idea to make Vaughn a primary backup to Parker during the second half of last year - at the expense of Hill. And don't get me started on the failed Roger Mason, Jr. backup PG experiment of last year.

These are all examples of Pop either inaccurately gauging the abiltiies of an end-of-career veteran, or miscasting a player in a role that exposes his deficiencies. My point is let's not act as though every freaking decision Pop makes deserves the highest of praise. At times, Pop's ego simply wont allow him to admit he's wrong. Perhaps he needs to heed his own motto and "get over himself". And if it is your desire to continue apologizing for him, perhaps you should do the same.

[itzsoweezee]

is any more proof needed that popovich is a senile old man the game has passed by?

[rascal]

Dumb, trying to fit players into roles of other players. Every player brings his own unique skills and Pop needs to stop trying to compare current players with past players.

A good coach adjusts as his team changes.

[jjktkk]

You're missing the point. Horry was argubly one of the greatest role players and clutch shooters in NBA postseason history. The likelihood of any player filling such a void for the Spurs is next to impossible. The same goes for Bowen. He was one of the best perimeter defenders in NBA history. Finding another elite defensive stopper of his ability and skill is unlikely. For that matter, it could take a trio of players just to equalize the effects that Bowen had on the defensive end. In attempting to replace both Horry and Bowen, simply plugging in Bonner and Bogans and expecting those kinds of results is short-sighted, at best.

All that said, there is no harm in a coach seeking to replace the skills of stellar players that have come through the organization. It's the public declaration that some new guy is "the next whoever" is what I have an issue with. For Pop to continue cannonizing Avery Johnson is assinine.

First off, Avery WAS a very good leader, but he was a horribly mediocre point guard. In fact, he was a better leader than player. His will and determination kept him in the NBA for so long and he deserves credit for that. However, let's not pretend that Avery was in the category of a John Stockton or a Magic Johnson. , let's not even compare him to Parker, for that matter. We could argue all day whether or not AJ's jersey warranted retirement, but that's another debate.

Your points about Nick Van Exel and Jacque Vaughn are both flawed. I don't give a what either did during his career. I only care about what they did or didn't do, could or couldn't do by the time they arrived here. In the case of NVE, by the time Pop convinced himself he just had to acquire him, the guy was done. I watched the two years that proceeded him coming to the Spurs in 2006 and I can tell you that age, injuries, and poor conditioning robbed him of the skills that made him the feared offensive PG that he was during the Mavs 2003 playoff run. Three years removed from that scintillating playoff run, he was finished. In fact, he talked openly about retiring the season before Pop fell in love with him.

As for Vaughn, he also probably hung around a year or two longer than he should have. Sure, he was a good, solid player in his day. Again, I don't care about that. In the role as exclusively a 3rd PG for the Spurs, he would've been fine. However, Pop couldn't simply live with that. It was his brilliant idea to make Vaughn a primary backup to Parker during the second half of last year - at the expense of Hill. And don't get me started on the failed Roger Mason, Jr. backup PG experiment of last year.

These are all examples of Pop either inaccurately gauging the abiltiies of an end-of-career veteran, or miscasting a player in a role that exposes his deficiencies. My point is let's not act as though every freaking decision Pop makes deserves the highest of praise. At times, Pop's ego simply wont allow him to admit he's wrong. Perhaps he needs to heed his own motto and "get over himself". And if it is your desire to continue apologizing for him, perhaps you should do the same.

No my point is you hate Pop so much it seems to cloud your better judgment. You knit pick over personnel moves he made in the past that were no big deal. Van Excel, Vaughn, were not huge signings, neither player was signed to play an vital, important role while with the Spurs. Pop didn't sign either of these 2 to start. These were veterans players signed for the Minimum. Big ing deal! They were signed for the same reasons, Horry,Bowen, Jerome Kersey, Mario Ellie, etc... were signed. You sign these vets. for chump change to see if they have anything left, if they do, great, if not, no big deal. I never said every decision Pop makes is great. He screws up like alot of coaches. You think Pop's the only coach with an ego? Would you feel better when Pop makes a mistake he runs to the media and tells all the Spurs fans, "hey I wanna apologize to all the Spurs fans, especially Senior Spur for the huge mistake I made in signing Nick Van Excel, Jacque Vaughn, and every other over the hill veteran I signed in a attempt to find a guy that has a chance to improve the Spurs. Please forgive me. Good luck waiting for that to happen. Bottom line to me is I find it ludicrous that your knitpicking on personnel moves that didn't amount to jack .

[ploto]

Pop wants Hill to be the next Avery-- you mean, he wants Duncan to want him gone?

[jjktkk]

Pop wants Hill to be the next Avery-- you mean, he wants Duncan to want him gone?

Lol, I hope not.

[SenorSpur]

No my point is you hate Pop so much it seems to cloud your better judgment. You knit pick over personnel moves he made in the past that were no big deal. Van Excel, Vaughn, were not huge signings, neither player was signed to play an vital, important role while with the Spurs. Pop didn't sign either of these 2 to start. These were veterans players signed for the Minimum. Big ing deal! They were signed for the same reasons, Horry,Bowen, Jerome Kersey, Mario Ellie, etc... were signed. You sign these vets. for chump change to see if they have anything left, if they do, great, if not, no big deal. I never said every decision Pop makes is great. He screws up like alot of coaches. You think Pop's the only coach with an ego? Would you feel better when Pop makes a mistake he runs to the media and tells all the Spurs fans, "hey I wanna apologize to all the Spurs fans, especially Senior Spur for the huge mistake I made in signing Nick Van Excel, Jacque Vaughn, and every other over the hill veteran I signed in a attempt to find a guy that has a chance to improve the Spurs. Please forgive me. Good luck waiting for that to happen. Bottom line to me is I find it ludicrous that your knitpicking on personnel moves that didn't amount to jack .

As usual, your over-apologetic, butt-kissing of the GM's decisions is so predictable. You're focused solely on the signings, when it's the overvalued use of those signing that's also in question. You can counterpoint until you're blue in the face. The fact remains the examples I outlined are real. If you find the opinions ludicrious, don't waste your time trying drum up some weak-ass counterpoint.

[Brazil]

Pop is senile

[jjktkk]

As usual, your over-apologetic, butt-kissing of the GM's decisions is so predictable. You're focused solely on the signings, when it's the overvalued use of those signing that's also in question. You can counterpoint until you're blue in the face. The fact remains the examples I outlined are real. If you find the opinions ludicrious, don't waste your time trying drum up some weak-ass counterpoint.

What fact? The fact that your opinion is a fact? No your opinion is just that, an opinion. How can signing players to the vet minimum be overvalued? Its a low cost way to sign players. Signing a player to a max contract, or a paying alot of money to a rookie is overvaluing. And you can call me a butt kisser of Pop, but I'm a little more impressed with Pop's overall body of work than your fantasy GM skills.

[SpurmzKilla]

Pop wants Hill to be the next Avery-- you mean, he wants Duncan to want him gone?

Lol, I hope not.

Nah, he just wanted Hill's jump shot to disappear the past few games.

Laffin my fukkin azz off at da trade parker tweeter u nuclehedz. But yo buy all meanz iz cool, keep blowin GHill and bench Parker even if he comes back early.

Suckaz, even oldazz DFish shows up when it counts. Can't wait till the off season when I be polishin a back2back trophy, .....watching SASsy Spurmz blow up da fake dynasty---- can't move so Lake show gets to trade 4TPark, and then sign a pissed off Gino who thinks his fans iz total foolz gold he wants to be on a REAL CONTENDER not some dumbazz team wit dumbazz fans who actually want to banish the all star point guard for little Gorge Hill as they starting pg Tonys wife is pumped to be livin wit her coworkers and they ain't nobody gonna stop da back2back2back....getting ready 4da THREEPEAT!

[Sean Cagney]

Nah, he just wanted Hill's jump shot to disappear the past few games.

Laffin my fukkin azz off at da trade parker tweeter u nuclehedz. But yo buy all meanz iz cool, keep blowin GHill and bench Parker even if he comes back early.

Suckaz, even oldazz DFish shows up when it counts. Can't wait till the off season when I be polishin a back2back trophy, .....watching SASsy Spurmz blow up da fake dynasty---- can't move so Lake show gets to trade 4TPark, and then sign a pissed off Gino who thinks his fans iz total foolz gold he wants to be on a REAL CONTENDER not some dumbazz team wit dumbazz fans who actually want to banish the all star point guard for little Gorge Hill as they starting pg Tonys wife is pumped to be livin wit her coworkers and they ain't nobody gonna stop da back2back2back....getting ready 4da THREEPEAT!

[SenorSpur]

What fact? The fact that your opinion is a fact? No your opinion is just that, an opinion. How can signing players to the vet minimum be overvalued? Its a low cost way to sign players. Signing a player to a max contract, or a paying alot of money to a rookie is overvaluing. And you can call me a butt kisser of Pop, but I'm a little more impressed with Pop's overall body of work than your fantasy GM skills.

No one said the strategy of signing low-cost vets was a flawed one. However, it doesn't take a fantasy GM to see when a guy is clearly at the end of the line and a bad fit for a team. Falling in love with the wrong players can be as detrimental as bad draft choices. And for the record, Pop gets loads of credit from many on this board - including me. He's a brilliant coach, strategist and basketball mind. At the same time, as the chief decision-maker for the franchise, there's no question that he's had his share of screw-ups. As such, he is not without cause for criticism. The notion that anyone who dares to say anything against him is a hater is just another example of the deep state of denial from a butt-kissing, Popologist - like you.

[spurs10]

Nah, he just wanted Hill's jump shot to disappear the past few games.

Laffin my fukkin azz off at da trade parker tweeter u nuclehedz. But yo buy all meanz iz cool, keep blowin GHill and bench Parker even if he comes back early.

Suckaz, even oldazz DFish shows up when it counts. Can't wait till the off season when I be polishin a back2back trophy, .....watching SASsy Spurmz blow up da fake dynasty---- can't move so Lake show gets to trade 4TPark, and then sign a pissed off Gino who thinks his fans iz total foolz gold he wants to be on a REAL CONTENDER not some dumbazz team wit dumbazz fans who actually want to banish the all star point guard for little Gorge Hill as they starting pg Tonys wife is pumped to be livin wit her coworkers and they ain't nobody gonna stop da back2back2back....getting ready 4da THREEPEAT!

All right, when you start making perfect sense to me...and scaring me...it's time to go to bed...hope I don't have dreams of TP and Manu in gold jerseys...that would really be a nightmare aaaahhhh.....

[jjktkk]

No one said the strategy of signing low-cost vets was a flawed one.

But you did. [QUOTE=SenorSpur;4173300] Your points about Nick Van Exel and Jacque Vaughn are both flawed.

So let me see if I get this straight. You yourself said that Pop is a "brilliant coach, strategist, and basketball mind". I agree and usually will call someone out when they go off on a tirade and say Pop's an idiot, etc.... Sure Pop has his screwups, just like any other coach. Theres no perfect coach out there that I'm aware off. So it seems we agree on Pop, but you sure seem to get your feathers ruffled if I question some of your replys, and start calling me Pop sucker, buttkisser, etc... Well I tried, but you contradict yourself and don't make a whole of alot of sense on this post.

[G-Dawgg]

Sounds like he's trying to make George the Spurs new Quarterback.. that would lead me to think that Parker would become potential trade bait in the offseason. My guess would be if Splitter comes to the Spurs then Parker stays put, but if he doesn't come it wouldn't surprise me if Parker gets traded for somebody to help in the front-court.....-just a thought.

[BillMc]

He needs to be vocal. He is the PG.

This.

[SenorSpur]

[QUOTE=jjktkk;4173326]But you did.

Your points about Nick Van Exel and Jacque Vaughn are both flawed.

So let me see if I get this straight. You yourself said that Pop is a "brilliant coach, strategist, and basketball mind". I agree and usually will call someone out when they go off on a tirade and say Pop's an idiot, etc.... Sure Pop has his screwups, just like any other coach. Theres no perfect coach out there that I'm aware off. So it seems we agree on Pop, but you sure seem to get your feathers ruffled if I question some of your replys, and start calling me Pop sucker, buttkisser, etc... Well I tried, but you contradict yourself and don't make a whole of alot of sense on this post.

On the contrary, it is your over-rationalization and need to constantly apologize for Pop's screwups that doesn't make any sense. As you know, Pop is more than just a coach, he is the President and chief decision-maker of the franchise. Pop is probably the closet thing to Red Auerbach that the NBA has ever seen. As such, when making personnel decisions for the franchise, it's sometimes necessary for him to separate Pop the coach, from Pop the executive. I've merely pointed out several instances where he's overestimated or misgauged the talent level of certain players that he acquired. Again, my issue with him is that too often he's fallen in love with players who were past their primes or even cast guys in roles that didn't best acceuntuate their talents. Heck, there are personnel issues that befall this current roster. However, that is another story.

The point is that just because someone calls him on the carpet for his screwups, and there have been several, doesn't mean they're a hater. It just means that, as a fan, we're taking issue with some of his decisions. No matter how much you want to claim "it's no big deal", it actually is - especially when your championship window is close to its expiration date.

[lefty]

If Pop wants Hill to be like Avery, we are seriously ed

Timvp was right about Pop sucking at developing young PG's

[bigdog]

I like that George doesn't dribble the ball all over the court til there's only 4 seconds left to make a decision like Tony.