Timmy = not even Top 15 Player All-Time

[dbreiden83080]

In all the battles the Lakers had during those years, you show me one highlight when the game was on the line when Shaq did the heavy lifting. I can show you plenty of game winning shots done by Tim's players. From Kerr, to Elliott, Manu, Parker, Jackson, Barry, Horry, the list goes on. Shaq has never been clutch, yet he played with the most clutch player in history, hands down.

Are you seriously saying those were Kobe's lakers? Shaq was the MVP of the whole league in 2000, won finals MVP all 3 times. Have a little perspective on this will ya?? Kobe is a great all time player, but those were Shaq's teams..

[Sean Cagney]

That le, 2003, is also going to go down as a team that had 4 HOF'ers on it, comparable to any team champion in NBA history outside of a couple Celtics and Lakers team and the 80's 76'ers champion, including a non-American Olympic Gold Medalist who beat a dream team in the only it has happened to date, 2 of the NBA's 50 greatest, the all time greatest 3 point shooter...a borderline HOF bigman.

All that and I didn't even mention Stephen Jackson, a guy who the Spurs still haven't fully replaced.

On the contrary, that team was the best Spurs team ever, it was probably one of the best teams ever, and if you think Tim Duncan won that le all by himself you evidentally missed the Lakers kicking the Spurs asses off the court the previous 2 years, and beating them again the following year when many of those players were gone.

And BTW, it still took Robert Horry missing the only big playoff shot of his career to beat that Laker team.

One man teams don't beat 3 time defending champions. If Duncan was that good he would have won a le every year he was healthy.


Edit: I forgot to mention Bruce Bowen and his 8 all NBA d teams...I know he was relatively meaningless in the grand scheme of things...I mean he was only guarding Kobe and when did Kobe ever give the Spurs trouble?

That 03 team had a ton of talent on it, it was a mix of Vets and youth, don't let anyone tell you otherwise. I still don't get how anyone can say that team was bad around tim or not great, they were a perfect mix! I loved that team.

Duncan had a much better supporting cast than Malone, but it's obvious Malone was a better player.

Not it's not, stop that. He was not a better defender nor post player, period.

[Chieflion]

I am just going to look at this thread to laugh at lakaluva's stupidity. It is just too funny.

[Sean Cagney]

These idiots only say that to try and boost Duncan's legacy. It's like saying Kareem had no help on his 1980 le team because Magic was a rookie.

Finally I agree on a post in here, that 03 had clutch players, great PG play and a mix of Vets and youth like I said, it was the perfect mix. I am a huge Duncan fan, but he had some help that year, it's not like he was all alone in that le run without clutch shooters and defenders.

[TDMVPDPOY]

These idiots only say that to try and boost Duncan's legacy. It's like saying Kareem had no help on his 1980 le team because Magic was a rookie.

that 03 team most of the young fellas only had one 1-2yr nba experience, i dont count the veterans...

[dbreiden83080]

It was Shaq's team, but he was far from the best player. If you don't realize that then you're hopeless.

If you don't realize Shaq meant more to those teams than Kobe you are hopeless...

[dbreiden83080]

Man most responsible for 2003 Spurs le..

[dbreiden83080]

Look man, when they redo the top 50, TD will make it with ease. I'm not here to bash him at all. It's easy for a Spur fan to rate him so high, but as you see, outside of San Antonio people don't think the same.

So where is Tim all time on your list???

[whottt]

Dunno. Subtraction was never my thing. But you know who was 33 in 1999 when the Spurs won their first le?

That's right. David Robinson. So what hall of famer was in his prime when Duncan won his first Larry O'Brien?

Dunno, how old would he have been if he was in Portland?

And was he 33 the night Duncan scored 5 points against Portland, in a win?

[TDMVPDPOY]

wtf do ppl make it look like ginoboli, jax and parker were top notch players in 03...

they had there good and bad games in the playoffs, lucky we never had 2 or 3 of them all have bad games in the same game...streaky players

parker that year was still the same player from the previous year when he gets exposed by the lakers...

[Sean Cagney]

I honestly think Wilt and Bill are overrated as players, but Wilt had the stats and Bill had the les, so you have to pay respect to that. I'm not even sure if Shaq is top 15, and if Kobe adds another le, he jumps Bill because Bill had no offensive game and he was a horrible shooter for a big man in the post. If Duncan adds another le, he goes top 5 easy.

You are reasonable, why are heads hating on that there? I got no problems at all with you man, and I am a huge Spurs and Duncan fan!

wtf do ppl make it look like ginoboli, jax and parker were top notch players in 03...

they had there good and bad games in the playoffs, lucky we never had 2 or 3 of them all have bad games in the same game...streaky players

parker that year was still the same player from the previous year when he gets exposed by the lakers...

Duncan went off in that game 6 against LA, but Parker played lights out too! Heads forget that! Some always forget that there.

[Sean Cagney]

Duncan gets his due with me. I just think it's crazy to pretend like Manu and Parker didn't go to battle with him. Duncan did not carry Manu and Parker!

A team needs to win les, not just one man! You need alot of help, Tim got his share in 05 too with Manu and Horry who saved him in that game 5! Without Horry there we lose that le! Tim did his thing and was the best on the team in those years yes! He was lights out in 99 and 03, 05 he did well too and so on! But he had help too, Kobe had Shaq in their threepeat going off! Shaq was that dude from 00-02, and Horry saved them with that shot to tie up Sac, without that shot you guys don't win that le!

You need your role players to go lights out on a run, it's that simple.

[ezau]

Listen man, I understand the reason for homerism, truly, I do, but if you did a poll of people who actually lived and watched that era of basketball, you'd only get Spur fans to vote for Duncan over Magic or Bird. You can try to minimize the help that Duncan had all you want, but when you guys are playing poorly, or failed to repeat, the first players you blame is Manu and Parker.

To sum it up of how ridiculous Spurs fans are, name me one team that has had a core as good as Parker/Manu/Duncan in this era? No one is even close!!! The fact that they underachieved and failed to defend their le, and are currently underachieving right now is why you should never mention Duncan with Magic.

You win championships and still underachieve? Get the out of here. So what about the 2004 Lakers? That team underachieved bigime.

[Man In Black]

In all the battles the Lakers had during those years, you show me one highlight when the game was on the line when Shaq did the heavy lifting. I can show you plenty of game winning shots done by Tim's players. From Kerr, to Elliott, Manu, Parker, Jackson, Barry, Horry, the list goes on. Shaq has never been clutch, yet he played with the most clutch player in history, hands down.

Apparently, you don't have an understanding of FOUNDATION. When your boy the Repentant Adulterer was scoring all those game winning shots, on whose foundations was he building off of?

Think of it this way, your boy was getting all the shots he wanted on team that didn't have #34, and welcomed Lamar Odom, Caron Butler, Brian Grant, at their press conference as LALs, then they proceeded to finish 11th in the conference, so where were the clutch shots then?

Answer-When your foundation is scrubs like Brian Grant, Vlade Divacs, & Chris Mihm...YOU DON'T HAVE ONE. So all those game winning shots that used to be shots for the win when the foundation was solid, turned into shots that are made just to make the score respectable, if possible.

If you don't agree, then tell us why the Pau Gasol collusion was needed?
Do you not agree that he provides the LAL foundation again?

[ezau]

Are you going to sit here and tell me that you thought the Spurs should not have gone back to back? This years team came in as a top 3 team. They rolled over against the Lakers two years ago. Sure Manu was gimpy, but the Lakers were missing Ariza and Byum. The greatest PF in basketball history should have had his way with a soft ass Pau, right?

The 04 Lakers were a huge let down for the entire season. Shaq pretty much took that year off.

lol the 04 team was expected to dominate the entire league. So what the happened? And Kobe ahead of Duncan on your list? Duncan's consistency and individual accolades will make Kobe hide in shame you piece of . So what did Kobe do? Score 81 points and then what, rape a white chick?

[ezau]

Apparently, you don't have an understanding of FOUNDATION. When your boy the Repentant Adulterer was scoring all those game winning shots, on whose foundations was he building off of?

Think of it this way, your boy was getting all the shots he wanted on team that didn't have #34, and welcomed Lamar Odom, Caron Butler, Brian Grant, at their press conference as LALs, then they proceeded to finish 11th in the conference, so where were the clutch shots then?

Answer-When your foundation is scrubs like Brian Grant, Vlade Divacs, & Chris Mihm...YOU DON'T HAVE ONE. So all those game winning shots that used to be shots for the win when the foundation was solid, turned into shots that are made just to make the score respectable, if possible.

If you don't agree, then tell us why the Pau Gasol collusion was needed?
Do you not agree that he provides the LAL foundation again?

That Laker poster is still missing the point until now. Without the Lakers FOUNDATION aka Pau Gasol, Kobe can't do . That glorified adulterer even blamed his teammates when things got tough for the Lakers. When everything is said and done, Kobe's nothing more than a glorified Paul Pierce. And don't get me started with his world-class defense, Kobe has had his ankles broken as much as the next guy.

[Thomas82]

Magic-Jordan-Bird-Duncan-Wilt

That's it.

fify

[da_suns_fan]

When Duncan is gone, no one will care.

He just wasnt a natural basketball player and compe or like Barkley and Malone.

[phyzik]

When Duncan is gone, no one will care.

He just wasnt a natural basketball player and compe or like Barkley and Malone.

[ohmwrecker]

This is ridiculous. Tim Duncan is easily top 10 whether you are a Spurs fan or not. You cannot argue with the stats & championships. Any argument to the contrary is patently ridiculous. No player is good enough to win a championship on his own. Tim needed DRob, Tony and Manu. The Lakers needed BOTH Kobe and Shaq. All championship teams need role players to step up and play big. Everybody needs Robert Horry! Shaughnessy is still bitter about the '97 draft and is, obviously, a drunken ginger hack writer. Lakaluva is a button pusher and can't make a solid argument to save his life, despite being armed to the teeth. Duh_Suns_Fan is just so sad and jealously pathetic that I just feel sorry for his poor sun-baked raisin of a brain.
Also, Tim Duncan is better than Shaq. Sorry, it's not even close.

[Obstructed_View]

if you did a poll of people who actually lived and watched that era of basketball, you'd only get Spur fans to vote for Duncan over Magic or Bird.

Can't imagine why guys who play for two of the biggest television markets wouldn't get more votes than a guy from the smallest, but it must mean more than what the players actually did on the floor.

Really, when you have to pull out the "repeat" card in order to try to knock a guy's greatness while simultaneously ignoring the longest streak of team excellence under one dominant player in perhaps the history of the league, it's a sign you need to abandon or rethink your argument.

[Chieflion]

Damn, the stupidity of lakaluva is too dangerous for humankind. Raw stats don't tell you anything, and Tim Duncan's defense is better than Larry Bird's. A case can be made that Duncan is the better player.

Larry Bird career PER: 23.5
Tim Duncan career PER: 25.0

Advantage: Tim Duncan

Larry Bird career playoff PER: 21.4
Tim Duncan career playoff PER: 26.1

Advantage: Tim Duncan

Larry Bird top PER: 27.8
Tim Duncan top PER: 27.1

Advantage: Larry Bird

Larry Bird top playoff PER: 26.3
Tim Duncan top playoff PER: 31.8

Advantage: Tim Duncan

We could go on and on. Advanced metrics show that Tim Duncan was a more dominant player in his era than Bird was in his.

In Larry Bird's peak, he produced 15.8 win shares in his top season. Tim Duncan produced 17.8 win shares in his top season, and 16.5 in his second top season. Bird never topped that.

In conclusion, lakaluva is a dumbass.

[Cane]

Why can lakaluva still post here and KBP can't?

[Sean Cagney]

Damn view!!! You splattered all kind of egg on your face with this one. Bird never repeated, and his best season stats make Duncan's best look ty. You don't even want to compare numbers with those two, son. Maybe you need to rethink your argument and stop trying to make it look like Duncan never had HOF'ers playing along side him his whole ing career.

Dominques stats are better than most career wise, is he top ten? You are looking at PPG to tell a story now?

[ClingingMars]

You should die with these bull stats.

Hollinger may be an idiot at times but his sabremetrics for basketball are gold, and you are a first class dumbass for calling them "bull stats".

also, how the does this guy have a job writing for SI? I feel dumber reading that article.