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lol DAF butt ed again.
And here is a stat geek arguing Dirk over Garnett
How can you have Dirk Nowitzki over Kevin Garnett?
In my opinion, Nowitzki, although thought of highly by most people, still manages to be underrated. Consider:
Nowitzki earned a decade-best 137.6 Win Shares during the regular season.
Nowitzki finished fifth in the decade with 17.4 playoff Win Shares, but while Nowitzki played in only 97 playoff games, no one above him played him in fewer than 133 games.
Nowitzki is an almost perfect blend of productivity and efficiency. Among players with at least 400 games played during the decade, he had the 15th-highest usage percentage, the 8th-lowest turnover percentage, and the 6th-highest offensive rating.
The Mavericks have won 50 or more games nine consecutive seasons, including seasons of 60 and 67 wins after losing two-time MVP Steve Nash. The one constant during this streak? Nowitzki.
None of this is meant to slight Garnett, who I think is a great player. I just think — and this system happens to agree — that Nowitzki was a little bit greater.
lol DAF butt ed again.
What does Manu "at his best" versus Dirk "at his best" even mean?
I hear some people try to make the argument that Manu is more "clutch" than Dirk, when they're both great in crunch time and statistically it's hard to make the case that one is more clutch than the other. So we'll just call it a push on that front.
You also have to take into account that Manu has played beside a dominant big for most of his NBA career as a #2 guy, whereas Dirk has always had to carry his teams as a #1 option without that post option. Kind of like comparing Scottie Pippen to Michael Jordan. The day Manu puts a team on his back with Jason Terry and Josh Howard as his backup and reaches the Finals is the day I'll stop insisting he's not as good as Dirk.
Then the Manu suckers resort to flowery and descriptive pose like Manu is more "fearless," has more "heart" and is more of a "warrior" than Dirk, whatever that means.
Last edited by Findog; 04-20-2010 at 02:42 PM.
daf just got a nail rammed up his hole
It means that when both guys play at their best level, Manu is better because he's just as efficient as Dirk scoring the ball and provides more things than Dirk at other aspects of the game. That's just my opinion, I know you don't agree with me and I don't pretend for you to change your mind.
as usual
lol bunch of 9 years old.
lol pussy chaser
Mav Crew is tearing into Daf's asshole. You better go back upstairs, boy, the sharks are out.
tbh I would like to go upstairs, but most of the Mavs krew has been banned from the Spurs forum.
Mav Crew is tearing into Daf's asshole. You better go back upstairs, boy, the sharks are out.
You're the one too pussy to respond to my questions or stats
Statistically that's just false. Manu has a career turnover rate of 14.1 with a usage rate of 25%, Dirk is at 8.9% with a usage rate of 27%. Manu's true-shooting and eFG% is a tiny, tiny smidgen better for his career, but not enough to make up for the fact that he coughs the ball up way more than Dirk does. He is NOT more efficient scoring the ball than Dirk.
As far as the "other things" go, it's hard to compare a big and a wing because their responsibilities are so different. Manu gets 1.5 more steals a game for his career, Dirk gets 1 more blocked shot. Dirk is a much better rebounder, but he should be since he's a 7-footer and Manu is a 6'6 guard. In any event, Dirk is better no matter what.
PER only considers offensive stats and it's obvious that your stats are going to be better playing as a number one option than a number two or three option.You're the one too pussy to respond to my questions or stats
lol mavs and lakers fans posting on a spurs forum
I don't trust you with numbers, you like to change them a bit. Also I said "just as". And why didn't you came up with the assists numbers?
however, I will say this to be completely fair, just so DAF can quit thinking that we are all just being homer and bla bla bla
I feel that Manu is as SKILLED as any player the NBA has ever seen. the only reason that he isn't as good as guys like Kobe, Wade, Jordan, etc... is that he isn't as athletic as those guys. hes not as strong, fast, or quick, which doesnt allow him to showcase his skills the way they do. but I think in terms of pure skills, hes very comparable to those guys.
lol Kori preferring the lakers and mavs fans you're referring to over your ty ass
Please. If Manu were good enough to be a #1 option, then Pop would alter the way that team is run.
PER is a player EFFICIENCY rating that uses mostly offensive stats. And didn't you just say Manu is just as efficient as Dirk? lmao.
Manu did fine playing off Duncan. But he would of struggled to lead a team past the first round as a #1, even in his best year.
Best PF of all-time.
Nowitzki earned a decade-best 137.6 Win Shares during the regular season.
Nowitzki finished fifth in the decade with 17.4 playoff Win Shares, but while Nowitzki played in only 97 playoff games, no one above him played him in fewer than 133 games.
Nowitzki is an almost perfect blend of productivity and efficiency. Among players with at least 400 games played during the decade, he had the 15th-highest usage percentage, the 8th-lowest turnover percentage, and the 6th-highest offensive rating.
exactly, if Manu had gone to a different team and been the team's Main Guy, instead of no.2 or 3 option, he would have been among the lead leaders in scoring and assists for a number of years.
Scoring the ball. Manu's true shooting % > Dirk's
You said Manu is as efficient at scoring as Dirk. What does the assist rate have to do with it?
Manu has a much better assist rate. He's also a wing who is expected to initiate his team's offense. Dirk is a big that is the primary scorer for his team. It's like criticizing Shaq for not having as good as a 3-pt shooting % as Kobe, or Kobe for not scoring as many points in the paint as Shaq. Dirk is a very good passer in his own right, but it's not his job to get the ball out on the wing and create for himself or his teammates in the p'n'r. His job is to set up at the foul-line extended and look for his shot, or hit cutters on the baseline/kick out to open 3-ball shooters when he gets doubled.
Last edited by Findog; 04-20-2010 at 03:07 PM.
They're essentially even at true shooting. Manu is at .520 for his career, Dirk is at .509 or some . Dirk is more efficient because he turns it over a lot less than Manu while having the ball in his hands more.
I think Stern wants a Dallas/LA WCF this year.
He certainly wanted Dallas to represent the West in 2006, which is when the referee onslaught in the Spurs/Mavs rivalry began in earnest.
Even Dirk admitted to hacking Duncan under the basket on the last play of regulation in Game 7. That would have given Duncan two free throws with 2 seconds left in a tie game.
But alas, the whistle didn't blow, and Dallas went on to the Finals to choke against Miami, a team the Spurs would have swept 4-0.
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