Basketball Purgatory..

[HarlemHeat37]

-Manu and Timmy have proven they can be all-stars for half a year..Manu didn't show up in the 1st half of the season and Duncan wore down from carrying the team in the 1st half of the season..

-Can't assume TP is going to be healthy, it's not a guarantee..

-Jefferson can't provide more..he's not a championship-caliber player..he's too mentally weak, can't spread the floor and doesn't play any defense..

I'm not denying the abilities of the big 3, they're all still very good players, but it's tough to win with an old core and with none of them being top 5 players in the NBA..



I fully agree that the Spurs should continue to attempt at building a le team while Duncan is there, btw, but the expectations for this team will obviously have to be lowered, which is tough on ST..

[J_Paco]

A year older for the big 3 where they are shown to be quickly on the decline. Stand pat once again? Spurs have shown they are not even close to beimg contenders, no way a band aid move would put them on top once again.

Who is quickly on the decline? Duncan is obviously declining, but he can still rebound and defend at a high level. Parker just had the best year of his career a year ago, but injuries destroyed any chance he had of following it. Ginobili had his best year since 2008, but needs to be limited in his use for now on.

I believe the front-office and coaching staff really needs to infuse this team with more young, athletic and defensive-minded players. They choose to play Hill and Blair, but neglected in forwarding the development of Malik and Ian. Instead, minutes were given to Bogans, Mason Jr., Bonner and McDyess. Unfortunately, 3 out of 4 of these rotation players flamed out through the grind of the season and playoffs.

I give Bonner credit because he played (on offense/shooting) better these last 2 games, but that was pretty much too little to late. Hairston and Mahimnhi probably wouldn't have been enough to defeat Phoenix, but they would've grown from the experience during the season and playoffs.

If the organization truly believes that Parker, Duncan and Ginobili have another le run in them then giving them more (young) help is necessary. If they can (finally) acquire Splitter, draft a impact SF with the 20th pick, find more reliable outside shooting and actually play more young players they have a chance. I don't believe that the current league has very many elite teams, really there are only three (Orlando, Cleveland and Los Angeles), but they are all flawed and beatable. Look at how Phoenix improved themselves enough from out of the playoffs last season to a deep run the next.

There is tons of parity, especially in the western conference and the Spurs just need to make the right moves.

[TD 21]

A year older for the big 3 where they are shown to be quickly on the decline. Stand pat once again? Spurs have shown they are not even close to beimg contenders, no way a band aid move would put them on top once again.

For the first time in three years (assuming Parker doesn't play in the World Championships) the big three will enter a season healthy, rested and not having to take half a year to get back into rhythm/shape. Obviously, Duncan and Ginobili are at an age where they can't maintain brilliant play for an entire season, but I also think Duncan held up a lot better this season than he was given credit for.

Parker, people forget, he's right at his peak. I hope he doesn't play this summer and returns to his form from a season ago, because people have quickly forgotten that he's one of the best scorers in the league. Is he a clear cut go to guy for a championship team? Probably not, but the other two make it so none of them have to be the guy by himself.

Who said anything about standing pat? It's obvious this team needs to sign Splitter, get a quality free agent and get a solid draft pick, preferably one that can contribute some next season. I just don't think re-building now is the way to go.

-Manu and Timmy have proven they can be all-stars for half a year..Manu didn't show up in the 1st half of the season and Duncan wore down from carrying the team in the 1st half of the season..

-Can't assume TP is going to be healthy, it's not a guarantee..

-Jefferson can't provide more..he's not a championship-caliber player..he's too mentally weak, can't spread the floor and doesn't play any defense..

I'm not denying the abilities of the big 3, they're all still very good players, but it's tough to win with an old core and with none of them being top 5 players in the NBA..

I fully agree that the Spurs should continue to attempt at building a le team while Duncan is there, btw, but the expectations for this team will obviously have to be lowered, which is tough on ST..

Didn't show up? It took him a half season to get into proper shape/rhythm and build confidence. I expect more consistency from Ginobili next season. Not as high as his peak this season, but not as low as his low, either. Duncan did wear down, but he should have more help on the front line next season and like I said, he held up a lot better than he was given credit for.

Can't assume any player is going to be healthy, it's never a guarantee. His track record is fairly strong though and for the most part his injuries were of the freak variety. He's not in their class, but people forgot how great Wade and now Paul are because of one injury plagued season and that's happening to Parker now. So long as he sits out the summer, I expect a big season from him next season. He's got a lot of mileage, but he's still young enough to think this season was more injury than decline related. People made that mistake with Ginobili and he's older than Parker. You don't go from your peak season to a steep decline instantly, without injury playing a major factor

I tend to agree with Jefferson, but by the trade deadline he'll become movable. The big thing for him is re-establishing himself as a corner three ball shooter. He shot it well last season from there, so it's not like it's unrealistic to expect him to do so again.

I agree, it's definitely tough and it's unlikely, but like I said, I'd rather take an outside chance with them (the Spurs owe Duncan that) than start a re-build that's inevitably not too far off anyway.

Depends on what they do in the off season, in terms of expectations. The way I see it, there's only three teams head and shoulders above them and the best two are in the East. As long as they're around fifth best, they'll have a shot, if they are healthy and draw a favorable match-up, or have one of the other contenders bow out early. It's not a great spot to be in obviously, but it's also not as doom and gloom as so many make it sound.

[Nbadan]

Step 1: move Jefferson.....

[Nbadan]

Step 2: Move Mason...

[NewJerSpur]

Step 2: Move Mason...

He's a free agent and is the only certain exit from SA at this point.

It was nice to see Pop giving Hill more time this year after the debacle that happened against Dallas in 2009. And Blair received more minutes than Hill did as a rookie in his first playoff stint, so the young guys are being brought along while the team is still in contention.

We need to figure out what else, if anything, we have on the current bench between Temple (played well down the stretch in crucial action), Hairston (has shown flashes but needs to provide consistency in at least one area of his game), and Ian (I'm not sure if there will ever be anything there) to go along with the draft picks from last year that were not brought in immediately and the guys that will be added this year.

[michaelwcho]

Hey guys, didn't the Suns get good with free agents and modest draft picks? Seems to me the Spurs could do the same. We didn't lose to them because of their big 3 or our big 3.

[Stringer_Bell]

Hey guys, didn't the Suns get good with free agents and modest draft picks? Seems to me the Spurs could do the same. We didn't lose to them because of their big 3 or our big 3.

You shut your logic speaking mouth right now!!!!

But for real, I'm not scared about this team staying in tact. Only a complete idiot of a coach and GM would think we have enough guns on hand for a Championship fight next season. *waits for the bump in 1 year when nothing has changed*

[Marcus Bryant]

LOL.

Basketball purgatory is being a contender every season and not once bringing home a trophy. Spurs fans truly do not understand how good they've had it over the last decade.

[DaDakota]

You guys are where my Rockets were when Hakeem was in decline.....you had the best player in the league in Duncan, but he is slowing down......

Rebuilding is painful....trust me.



DD

[EricB]

You guys are where my Rockets were when Hakeem was in decline.....you had the best player in the league in Duncan, but he is slowing down......

Rebuilding is painful....trust me.



DD

Nice try but no.

[objective]

Purgatory isn't that bad a word. HH37 isn't that offbase.

The issue is that I fail to objectively see how the Spurs on paper could improve to the point where they would be seen as better than PHX or LA. And that's ignoring the east, and ignoring the possibility that Utah could have a top 3 pick.

Let's be honest, everyone is counting on Tiago Splitter. That's great. Even if he signs, and that's a big if, that pretty much just leaves them with minimum salaries, the draft, and maybe the LLE to improve the squad.

I love Splitter. I think Splitter will instantly be a legit starting caliber center. But next season Robin Lopez will be back, and he's already proven himself as a legit starting center. Does Tiago Splitter really leapfrog the Spurs over a Suns team with Lopez?

Then the argument becomes about how much better Hill and Blair can become, maybe even Hairston or the 20th pick who could be a small forward. Awesome. Will the progress be so much more than the improvement of Dragic and Dudley, and the fact the Earl Clark still isn't a part of their rotation?

So how on paper are the Spurs going to be any better than the team that just straight wrecked them?

, will they be any better than Dallas? If Rick Carlisle hadn't Popped Beaubois that series goes 7, and I don't even know that the Spurs get out of the first round.

The most realistic, and optimistic offseason is signing Splitter and hoping someone decent falls to them in the draft and can play right away. That's not enough, not at this stage in the careers of the big 3. Unless there's a trade for a real upgrade using Jefferson, or some outlandish pie-in-the-sky fantasy blockbuster like Parker-Splitter-Jefferson for Bosh-Calderon, there's nothing else. And even that fever-dreamed lunacy wouldn't make the Spurs better necessarily, only different.

And that's the best case. Worst case . . . Splitter decides to wait out the looming workstoppage in Europe, and the Spurs are left with . . . what? The MLE on . . . who? Basically they'd just re-sign Bonner and pray.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I been sayin this since before last season begun.

We kinda in a ed-mode for championship hopes cuz we're good enough to keep makin the playoffs but will never get a high enough pick without sucking balls.

So either you hope for a major injury to Duncan (which I would never EVER hope for)

Or you just stay satisfied with who we are until the Big FunD decides to retire.

[ElNono]

My hope is that they can build a 2004 Pistons like team. No 'superstar' that stands out, but a solid team, with a solid system, playing solid defense. That would require better role players than what we had, and going back to putting the onus on the defense.
Some length on the wings, some shot blocking helping Tim, and good shooters on the wing. I think it can be done.

[NewJerSpur]

Well, we've had pretty good success with the draft the last few years so I never count out getting on or two impactful guys there. Temple might also be a diamond in the rough. We'll have to see what free agents become available before we blow anyone off in terms of being a cheap, impactful signing.

Jefferson is not in the team's long term plans so he needs to go sooner than later, but who is going to take on that contract prior to the trade deadline?

[Cant_Be_Faded]

My hope is that they can build a 2004 Pistons like team. No 'superstar' that stands out, but a solid team, with a solid system, playing solid defense. That would require better role players than what we had, and going back to putting the onus on the defense.
Some length on the wings, some shot blocking helping Tim, and good shooters on the wing. I think it can be done.

The only problem with that, is that was under a different NBA era, one where a scrubby defense-only, no-star team COULD win that championship. And that Pistons team did it with flying colors. Such respect for that Pistons team.

But the handcheck rule effectively killed that formula for success.

[J_Paco]

Purgatory isn't that bad a word. HH37 isn't that offbase.

The issue is that I fail to objectively see how the Spurs on paper could improve to the point where they would be seen as better than PHX or LA. And that's ignoring the east, and ignoring the possibility that Utah could have a top 3 pick.

Let's be honest, everyone is counting on Tiago Splitter. That's great. Even if he signs, and that's a big if, that pretty much just leaves them with minimum salaries, the draft, and maybe the LLE to improve the squad.

I love Splitter. I think Splitter will instantly be a legit starting caliber center. But next season Robin Lopez will be back, and he's already proven himself as a legit starting center. Does Tiago Splitter really leapfrog the Spurs over a Suns team with Lopez?

Then the argument becomes about how much better Hill and Blair can become, maybe even Hairston or the 20th pick who could be a small forward. Awesome. Will the progress be so much more than the improvement of Dragic and Dudley, and the fact the Earl Clark still isn't a part of their rotation?

So how on paper are the Spurs going to be any better than the team that just straight wrecked them?

, will they be any better than Dallas? If Rick Carlisle hadn't Popped Beaubois that series goes 7, and I don't even know that the Spurs get out of the first round.

The most realistic, and optimistic offseason is signing Splitter and hoping someone decent falls to them in the draft and can play right away. That's not enough, not at this stage in the careers of the big 3. Unless there's a trade for a real upgrade using Jefferson, or some outlandish pie-in-the-sky fantasy blockbuster like Parker-Splitter-Jefferson for Bosh-Calderon, there's nothing else. And even that fever-dreamed lunacy wouldn't make the Spurs better necessarily, only different.

And that's the best case. Worst case . . . Splitter decides to wait out the looming workstoppage in Europe, and the Spurs are left with . . . what? The MLE on . . . who? Basically they'd just re-sign Bonner and pray.

I get what your saying, Objective. But, you fail to mention that Amar'e is in all likelihood playing his last season in Phoenix, Grant Hill and Steve Nash will be another year older and the ceiling for the Phoenix role players (or even ours) may not be very high.

Utah and Phoenix will have just as many important decisions to make this off-season, while L.A.'s core of Bryant, Gasol, Artest, and Odom will all have more mileage on their bodies and are all 30+ years old.

If Splitter doesn't come over than the team is screwed, but if he does he'll be an instant upgrade to Matt Bonner. The 20th pick could yield a SF that has the athletic ability, perimeter shooting and defensive mind-set this team craves. Also, the team will need one or two of the young perimeter players (Gee, Hairston and Temple) to pan out. Which isn't too unreasonable since other such players (Shannon Brown, Wesley Mathews and Jared Dudley) have developed and contributed on playoff teams. And, there is the possibility that Jefferson could be dealt to also bolster the perimeter or front-court. Be more optimistic, bro.....

[ElNono]

The only problem with that, is that was under a different NBA era, one where a scrubby defense-only, no-star team COULD win that championship. And that Pistons team did it with flying colors. Such respect for that Pistons team.

But the handcheck rule effectively killed that formula for success.

True, but I don't expect to hold down opponents under 80 points anymore.
But we have gone away from basic stuff. Good, solid rebounding. Some shot blocking. Good rotations. We won in 2007 playing pretty decent defense, and a lot better defense than what we play these days. Obviously that having a guy like Bruce was a huge difference. I'm not looking back at him, but I think we can get the personnel to play defense a lot better than we have been for the past two seasons. We've tried to win outscoring teams, and it's just a gimmick.

[objective]

I get what your saying, Objective. But, you fail to mention that Amar'e is in all likelihood playing his last season in Phoenix, Grant Hill and Steve Nash will be another year older and the ceiling for the Phoenix role players (or even ours) may not be very high.

Utah and Phoenix will have just as many important decisions to make this off-season, while L.A.'s core of Bryant, Gasol, Artest, and Odom will all have more mileage on their bodies and are all 30+ years old.

If Splitter doesn't come over than the team is screwed, but if he does he'll be an instant upgrade to Matt Bonner. The 20th pick could yield a SF that has the athletic ability, perimeter shooting and defensive mind-set this team craves. Also, the team will need one or two of the young perimeter players (Gee, Hairston and Temple) to pan out. Which isn't too unreasonable since other such players (Shannon Brown, Wesley Mathews and Jared Dudley) have developed and contributed on playoff teams. And, there is the possibility that Jefferson could be dealt to also bolster the perimeter or front-court. Be more optimistic, bro.....

The Suns just made the WCF, they're re-signing Amare. And Frye. Sarver has a reputation for being cheap, and he's done enough to deserve it, but he's also paid the tax year in and year out and s ed out the dough in new contracts.

RE: Nash and Grant Hill and how they'll decline, I don't expect it. Let's just say that this is a lot like when the Red Sox looked at the numbers, looked at the odds, and looked at performance and decided Clemens just wasn't worth the money. Cuban did the same thing, and he was always big on stats, and also not shy at all about spending big time money. He so thorough that the lengths he'll go to and the money he'll spend just to know about particular stocks are incredible. He came to the same conclusion on his player. Clemens somehow found a way come back for many years of awe-inducing play, causing people to marvel at how incredible it was that he was able to stay in such good shape at his age. Nash and Grant Hill I'm sure are on the same awesome vitamin regimen, they'll be good for a couple years more.

And maybe the Spurs do luck out with the 20th pick. There's no guarantee Pop plays him enough to get him ready. it's more likely to have more Bogans, Bonner, and an added vet scrub like Devean George to fill things out instead of Hairston or Temple or Gee or whoever.

Optimism, pessimism, I just try for objectivity.

[ajh18]

Wow, listening to some of y'all overreact and flip out with pessimism is just sad.

This team is fine. Do we have a top tier superstar anymore? Probably not. Does that mean things are tougher? Sure. But who that's a contender actually has a top tier star? LA/Cleveland? Personnel wise, we are no worse off than Utah, Phoenix, or Boston. Dwight Howard can't even be called a top-tier star because he's offensively a liability.

Chemistry matters folks. Remember the old Blazers teams of a decade back? Totally STACKED with talent. But no chemistry. They never had "it". Meanwhile, we won a le with Jaren freaking Jackson playing a key role. Because he "fit" the needs.

I think bringing over Splitter is key. We NEED a good, mobile center next to Tim. Not a star, but a defensive presence and someone who can move, put up maybe 9 and 8 a game. If we can bring him over, run a four man frontline of Duncan, Splitter, McDysse, and Blair.

In the backcourt, run Manu, Tony, and Hill. Develop Temple as a long, fourth guard and third-string point. He can be a minute-eater during the regular season. He and Hill can eat up around 45 minutes a game between them, leaving Parker at around 30-35 and Manu at 20-25. This will keep both Tony and Manu relatively fresh for the playoffs.

The real weak link is at small forward. RJ is a slasher, but we actually now HAVE those at the guard spots. What we don't have is good defense and 3 point shooting. And Jefferson just doesnt fit those needs. I hope he can contribute, but I think we could actually "trade down" talent wise, for a good shooter and/or defender, and give Hairston some minutes, and be set. Fill the roster out with veteran 3 point specialists.

Remember, last year the Suns missed the playoffs. The Nash era was over. Then, they traded away Snaq, added some better fitting role players, and they're back in the WCF. And I wouldnt be that surprised to see them upset the Lakers either.

Stop overreacting. We have all the main pieces to be a contender for another couple of years. We just need to find complimentary pieces around them, let our young guys like Blair and Hill develop, and pray for health.

[J_Paco]

The Suns just made the WCF, they're re-signing Amare.

Not if one of the teams with huge cap space (NY, Chicago, New Jersey, Clippers, etc.) throw max dollars with a front-loaded contract. Remember, that Joe Johnson left because Sarver wasn't willing to match Atlanta's front-loaded offer. I believe he won't be wearing a Suns jersey next season, not with huge dollars and the chance to play with (possibly) Wade on the line.

Hey, are you saying that Nash and Hill are rubbing "magic cream" like Bonds, Sheffield, Clemens and Pet e? Or, injecting their butts with Vitamin "S"?

[objective]

Not if one of the teams with huge cap space (NY, Chicago, New Jersey, Clippers, etc.) throw max dollars with a front-loaded contract. Remember, that Joe Johnson left because Sarver wasn't willing to match Atlanta's front-loaded offer. I believe he won't be wearing a Suns jersey next season, not with huge dollars and the chance to play with (possibly) Wade on the line.

Hey, are you saying that Nash and Hill are rubbing "magic cream" like Bonds, Sheffield, Clemens and Pet e? Or, injecting their butts with Vitamin "S"?

Sarver didn't want to pay Johnson out of ego. He was even going to match the RFA deal but wanted to hear Johnson ask him to match it. When Johnson's pride wouldn't let him, Sarver let him go.

And yes, there's all sorts of things happening in PHX. It's not just flaxseed oil and controlling what time of day to have sugar. Everything has it's side effects, like Amare's knees and his eyeballs 1 soft poke away from falling out his skull and Gugliotta nearly dying on the team bus.

Nash's hip was all sorts of wrecked after the Portland series, but he gets 3 days of treatment and then he's superman. Someone would have to be willfully naive to think he was just getting some gua-sha or graston technique or tui-na. Same goes with Grant Hill. This guy couldn't stay on the court as a 100+ million dollar investment with the best doctors in the world coming to Orlando to help him. He goes to PHX and discovers how to balance his core, get good acupuncture for his meridians and adjust his chakras and suddenly he's the fountain of youth.

Take a look at Nash's face real carefully, he looks like The Man Who Fell to Earth. And I'm not hating, I support the legalization of any supplement/hormone/steroid under a doctor's supervision for any course of treatment, be it for athletics or even cosmetic. I'm just explaining why I don't think you'll see the decline that people have been predicting for 6-7 years now.

[jjktkk]

My hope is that they can build a 2004 Pistons like team. No 'superstar' that stands out, but a solid team, with a solid system, playing solid defense. That would require better role players than what we had, and going back to putting the onus on the defense.
Some length on the wings, some shot blocking helping Tim, and good shooters on the wing. I think it can be done.

Which is not so impossible a task IMO. Better 3-point shooting would do wonders for the offense. The only obvious task, besides 3-point shooting, is to to upgrade the front line. Instead of a 4 that can stretch defenses, maybe Pop needs to go back to a "twin tower", more traditional lineup. Maybe the combination of Splitter, and McDyess can achieve that. A an athletic 3 with size is needed. Some might think thats too many needs, but I'm not one of them.