Reply With Quote
what is the objective definition of a "perfect being"?
bottom line?
i'll see alot of you smart bas s in !
what is the objective definition of a "perfect being"?
there is no "objective" definition, so the definition has to be taken in context as if would be in the construct of the rationalist argument posited by descartes. descartes would have not attributed the same attributes to a spaghetti monster. my point was that i understood leetonidas to be speaking of descartes' 'god' as a completely subjective and unverifiable en y or 'idea'.
Thanks?The only interesting thing in this thread.
My father was agnostic, so all the self-confidence Ive built over the years regarding my contrarian nature towards organized religion and God Himself just got tossed out the window.
I am now a hollow follower where I once believed otherwise, if your theory stands the test.
you, Spurm.
To clarify, I think intelligent people can determine that the way they were raised is the worldview they want to live under. While I believe the intelligent question their upbringing, they don't always necessarily reject it.
Regardless, it's not the only litmus, and I'd consider you an intelligent person, DR, regardless of your religion or lack thereof.
just checking
Tbh all of this talk about any great thinkers who came around before Darwin is a waste of time. They only knew half the story. The Darwin Theory is a crushing blow to the Bible because with one stroke it turned the whole thing from fact to metaphor. Plus all the scientific research, carbon dating, dinosaur fossils, etc. there's no way they would think the same way today imo.
tbh back in the day being anything other than religious was unhealthy. If they lived today, I'd bet they would be atheist, like smart folks should be.
guys, it's true. i just decided to become an athiest, and i took one of those online IQ tests, and it went up five points from what i got on an IQ test i took when i was a believer.
i hope to God i don't get relgiious enlightenment before by next exam.
The main problem that I have with atheists is they generally tend to have a feeling that they are better than people just because of religious preference.
I have a few atheist aqcuaintances that constantly badger me about my religious preference. They ask me questions to which there is no scientific answer. Basically it was the chicken or the egg question. My response to this is of course... "I can't really say. I wasn't here at the time." Then they start going into evolution theory and stuff like that. So then I ask them, "Which came first? The chicken or the egg? Science doesn't know either does it?"
I prefer to leave things as is. Faith is a matter of taste. Some people like to believe that there is something bigger than themselves in this universe. Others only believe what they see. So basically what this boils down to is... WHO GIVES A !
eh, it goes both ways
pretty muchSo basically what this boils down to is... WHO GIVES A !
Albert Einstein was considered to be re ed when he took twice as many years to talk then the average child.
Steve Jobs smoked weed couldn't spell Apple and would have scored very low on that test back in 1980.
So I have to question the results coming from a single source.
From what I can tell, the study in the second link was conducted by two independent groups; one with two professors in a college in the UK and the other by a professor in Denmark.
The third link is just by the professor in Denmark.
Look, all the people arguing that some smart people believe in God... so what? What does that have to do with the OP? I don't think the point was that NO smart person believes. Just that, on average, non-believers have higher IQs than believers.
No one's saying it's a hard line and there are no outliers.
It's a 'fair' take... but, I think you among others here missed the point.Look, all the people arguing that some smart people believe in God... so what? What does that have to do with the OP? I don't think the point was that NO smart person believes. Just that, on average, non-believers have higher IQs than believers.
No one's saying it's a hard line and there are no outliers.
Such studies are biased from the get-go - a complete slap-in-the-face to the scientific process they are supposedly trying to uphold (have you seen their methods, their sample pools? laughable really). Its assertions are without merit. Yet, you all have gleefully taken them to heart as if they helped justify the lack of belief amongst those here.
The scientific movement was largely born out of people who wished to understand the world around them... because they inherently understood that we were gifted the capacity to reason and comprehend the 'workings' of our world and our place in it (unlike the other creatures around us)... more specifically, they understood their unique place among 'creation'. Hasn't anyone here ever questioned the philosophical implications of being situated in the one zone in the galaxy that allows us to 'safely' study the universe to begin with? Most other zones in our galaxy are a haven for biodestructive cosmic forces, and aren't as conducive to providing the stability required for life to flourish, much less for that life to 'develop' the cognitive ability to question their place in the universe and the means to understand it.
Anyways, it's disingenous to continually distort history to the point where you all fail to admit that Believers, by and large, propelled the scientific movement. All those people I listed (out of a much larger list) revolutionized their fields and helped usher in the modern technological era. It's also rather disingenous to presume that they would be athiests in today's world...
Ask yourself this question... Why wasn't the scientific movement born out of other world philosophies (Islam, Shintoism, Buddhism, Hinduism, or even Atheism since you all tout its virtues so much)??? NOW, I'm not saying that their adherents lacked the intellectual capacity to do so... simply that they weren't gifted with the perspective to put it together, or to seek out Truth. Nowadays everyone shares in the benefit of all past contributions, and embraces the scientific process... but many (as exemplified in this thread) believe it to be a product of secularism, and the pre-requisite rejection of faith. Nothing can be further from the truth...
If some of the brightest minds ever have come to the realization that our universe was created, how is it you all can nonchalantly ignore the significance of their realization? Sure, go ahead and think for yourselves... ultimately matters of faith are entirely up to you all... but don't for a second believe you completely grasp the nuances of the physical laws that govern our universe, or the implications of the subatomic world which has unfolded before us... If you all think that being 'smart' is to accept only that which can be seen and measured then IMO you all aren't very smart at all. As I've said many times before... Science isn't the catch-all, be-all, end-all tool you all wish it to be... it's only a tool, not a world view.
As an aside, Atheism these days is becoming rather religious... except that many of its adherents can't even see, much less admit to this irony...
Last edited by Phenomanul; 06-04-2010 at 09:36 AM.
I wonder what percentage of people with an IQ over 120 believe in God. I bet it's a majority.
lol no
I personally believe that it takes higher intellect to reconcile faith in what one can not see with scientific proof that can be found in things that one can see. A simpler mind can only fathom that one or the other must be trusted, whereas greater insight allows a person to believe in the merits and contributions of both.
I would be curious as to the belief systems of those with the absolute highest IQ's.
In 2008, intelligence researcher Helmuth Nyborg examined whether IQ relates to denomination and income, using representative data from the National Longitudinal Study of Youth, which includes intelligence tests on a representative selection of American youth, where they have also replied to questions about religious belief. His results, published in the scientific journal Intelligence demonstrated that on average, Atheists scored 1.95 IQ points higher than Agnostics, 3.82 points higher than Liberal persuasions, and 5.89 IQ points higher than Dogmatic persuasions. [4] "I'm not saying that believing in God makes you dumber. My hypothesis is that people with a low intelligence are more easily drawn toward religions, which give answers that are certain, while people with a high intelligence are more skeptical," says the professor.[5]
The relationship between countries' belief in a god and average Intelligence Quotient, measured by Lynn, Harvey & Nyborg.[6]Nyborg also co-authored a study with Richard Lynn, emeritus professor of psychology at the University of Ulster, which compared religious belief and average national IQs in 137 countries. [6] The study analysed the issue from several viewpoints. Firstly, using data from a U.S. study of 6,825 adolescents, the authors found that atheists scored 6 g-IQ points higher than those adhering to a religion.
Secondly, the authors investigated the link between religiosity and intelligence on a country level. Among the sample of 137 countries, only 23 (17%) had more than 20% of atheists, which cons uted “virtually all the higher IQ countries.” The authors reported a correlation of 0.60 between atheism rates and level of intelligence, which is “highly statistically significant.” This portion of the study uses the same data set as Lynn's work IQ and the Wealth of Nations.
Commenting on the study in The Daily Telegraph, Lynn said "Why should fewer academics believe in God than the general population? I believe it is simply a matter of the IQ. Academics have higher IQs than the general population. Several Gallup poll studies of the general population have shown that those with higher IQs tend not to believe in God," [7]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religio...d_intelligence
Intelligence doesn't make us happier. This shows the upside of self-delusion. All of this connects. Like the fact we perform better at a task after we try it initially and think we do well. We delude ourselves and that leads to being happier. Perspective is all that we have and if we want to live a happy life and not one based in fact, we can do so.
To clarify, I am atheist.
I don't follow a religion. I do believe in God. This entire universe has order and something put it that way. Order, on the grand scale of the universe, occurring by chance seems impossible. Some don't see it the same way.
As for an afterlife, I'm not sure. What exists beyond this universe, no one alive shall ever know. I found out a long time ago focusing on what's after this life is futile, anyway. Death occurs so quickly and for no reason. We'll all find ourselves traveling towards the light soon enough.
Last edited by z0sa; 06-04-2010 at 01:09 AM.
The problem I have with religious people is that they label EVERYONE who doesnt believe in a "set religion" an athiest.
I dont believe in any organized religion. In fact, the idea of organized religion, in my mind, is what is wrong with this world.
I dont believe in a god the way any religion depicts him/her/it. You want to constantly praise "the word" and force it on other people..... nevermind that "the word" was fabricated off of even more ancient beliefs that most people dismiss today.... Take your kids and indoctrinate them into your belief system..... then have the ing gall to say your not trying to force beliefs on anyone?
Here's a thought. Ask your kids if they want to go to church or not. Why force it on them? Ohhh, thats right.... They will go to if they dont.
I believe in the power of the human race and what we are capable of. You preech Man was made in your gods image, then turn around and attack those very same people made in his image for discovering things that might have the slightest chance of shattering your fantasy?
Just because of those statements, most people would label me an Athiest.
Here's the catch though.....
I DO believe in a higher power. Just not YOUR higher power. Is it some cosmic being beyond all comprehension? Was the Earth seeded by some ancient alien race? Are we just some cosmic accident?
I dont know....
And thats the difference between me and a religious person.
I accept the unknown..... you... the sheep (by the bible's own words).... insist on unquestionably believing in some magical being creating everything just to comfort yourselves in the face of death.... Me? I honestly dont know whats going to happen when I die and I am perfectly fine with that. I feel I've lived a good enough life to accept any judgement from any being that may be out there. For all I know I could end up on some other plane of existence fighting alongside Drizzt Do'Urden or going to some utopia with smurfs running around everywhere or some .
Bottom line.... Not following a religion and not believing in a God in the mystical sense that religion places him, doesnt make me a bad person. Just imagine how much better this world would be without religious factions fighting across the globe.
Last edited by phyzik; 06-04-2010 at 01:58 AM.
I got news for you.... the universe is anything but orderly.
Black holes swallowing galaxies... even our own galaxy has a super-massive black hole at the center.
Supernova stars....
entire galaxies colliding with eachother....
God is a pretty messy dude for being omnipotent.
The universe is just as orderly as giving a 2 years old a crayon and expect that 2 year old to color inside the lines.
Last edited by phyzik; 06-04-2010 at 02:09 AM.
I thought you didn't assume to know who God was, like those evil religions?
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
