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the only problem i have with johnson is the idea that you give up roddy to get him.
don't get me wrong........the FO is stupid enough to do this.
Not sure what you mean here but really how important is having a ton speed and athleticism? Speed and athleticism can win a lot in the regular season but once you start playing elite defenses in the playoffs that rotate well and have length, that speed and athleticism becomes a lot less effective.
I'm not saying JJ guarantees a series win against the Lakers, it's just my opinion of all realistic things Dallas can do, Joe Johson + resigned Haywood + acquired Gortat gives them their best chance at beating LA, albeit it's not a great chance.
the only problem i have with johnson is the idea that you give up roddy to get him.
don't get me wrong........the FO is stupid enough to do this.
we were just a better team during those years, and the current day lakers didn't exist, along with the super team that stern is about to create out east. those old teams took more of a load off dirk than his current supporting cast. nick van exel was capable of going off for 30+ any night and did it many times in the playoffs in his stint with us. Jet and Josh Howard used to be good players. for years now the team has just felt "out of sync."
The Mavs did not have a shot at winning a le in those years listed. They got dismantled by a Kings team in 2002 that went on to lose in the next round. Same thing in 2004. In 2005 they were decisively beaten by a Suns team that went on to lose in the next round. In 2003 and 2006 they came close with roster tweaks, not roster overhauls.
The Mavs have trade chips and assets to leverage in the hopes of getting better. Which incidentally is how the Lakers and Celtics managed to make themselves relevant again, as opposed to signing a marquee free agent. The Mavs are better off (and perhaps destined) to ride the Dirk Era to its conclusion like the Jazz did with Stockton and Malone.
i'm with you on this, but, the idea that johnson is worth the max is crazy. and a s&t for him that includes roddy is crazy.
man stop painting things so black and white. we got beat by a kings team that rightfully won the damn championship in 2002 if not for stern and his collusion. in 2005 we lost to the suns, but once again you're taking it out of context. The suns, spurs, and mavs always had a 3 way battle in those years where the suns couldn't beat the spurs, but they owned us, and we matched up decently with the spurs while poorly with phoenix. The suns beating us and losing to the spurs in the next round was no surprise, it was expected because of the way the teams matched up. So we were just all of the sudden irrelevant and had no shot in 2005, but in 2006 were the favorites and (according to some opinions) screwed out of a le? cmon findog, get real.
oh, and i guarantee you that joe thinks he's max worthy.
Should the Lakers have traded Kobe for picks, cash and a young player in 2007 since they were going nowhere and were a perennial first-round exit?
Should the Celtics have done the same with Paul Pierce?
if you're going to bring in the type of pieces needed to build a contender, then of course you do it. that's what those guys did. but sitting around with your thumb up your ass and doing NOTHING, or making half ass moves that don't change the end result (lol first round exit) is kind of pointless.
the mavs FO has a choice to make. either get on the ball and turn this ship around and put together a contender, or give up on the present and start making moves strictly planning for the future.
And all you're doing is playing Monday Morning Quarterback. You've got an owner with deep pockets committed to improving the roster (bringing in Kidd, Butler and Haywood). We can argue the wisdom of those moves, but not the attempt to get better. I'd rather Cuban and Donnie keep taking swings instead of quitting. I'm not in any hurry to watch this team go 32-50.
you keep holding out for some false hope that eventually they will get it right and bring in the right players to contend, but by then Dirk will be old and no longer the 3rd or 4th best player in the nba (or the best like he was in 2007) and it will be too late for him to carry a team.
i'm not saying that we go all crazy and blow it up and take joy in going 30-52, but all moves made need to be good for the future. no more sacrificing tomorrow to stay "mediocre" today. all i am saying is that i am against trades likes such as roddy for joe johnson which do nothing but maybe make us slightly better today (but still not nearly good enough) while destroying our future.
does nobody think other teams are interested in dirk?
I think he's saying that Kidd, Butler and Haywood are half assed attempts at "taking swings". The problem is all they seem to do is beef up the role players around Dirk expecting him to go 2003 Duncan or 1994 Olajuwon carrying a supporting cast of role players to a le, when they should be looking to give Dirk all star level players to help.
why is it that DoK always gets it, while nobody else ever does? the way the IQ level of spurstalk has dropped in recent years is alarming..
Who says they're not trying to get those All Star level players? We have a report out in ESPN today that says they're trying to acquire Joe Johnson. Does that not count as an All Star level player? They reportedly turned down Deng for Damp's contract. Does that not count as refusing to settle for another role player?
It's easy to say that Kidd, Butler and Haywood were "half-assed" attempts to get better. We can debate the wisdom of the Kidd trade until the cows come home, but there was nothing "half-assed" to me about trading Josh Howard and Drew Gooden for Butler/Haywood.
I want my team to do everything in its power to maximize the results of the Dirk Era....then we can rebuild when he's done.
quit being stubborn and just answer one question. do you support trading roddy to bring in joe ing johnson? here comes the real IQ test.
I just don't get why everyone says "Look what Boston and LA did!" (Suns fans do this a ton) and never question how willing their front office is to go out and get KG or Pau Gasol. After 2007, the Suns shoulda been willing to trade anyone not named Steve Nash and the Mavs shoulda been willing to trade anyone not named Dirk Nowitzki to get KG, yet neither team did. After each team's core peaked in 2007 and it became obvious they would need improvements to stay in contention, each front office has been perfectly content with a 50 win team that doesn't have much of a chance at winning it.
I'd be inclined to turn it down, but stop acting like Roddy is the second coming of Michael Jordan. He had about the same impact his rookie season as Marquis Daniels. Compare their rookie stats and tell me who was better. I like Roddy, but it's defensible either way to trade him for Johnson...or not.
That would actually be a decent trade for Dallas since JJ would be their best post-2007 attempt at giving Dirk capable help. What would you rather your team do, make a gamble like that and fill the hole Dallas has had at shooting guard since Michael Finley, or listen to a press conference about how no off season moves are needed because "the growth of Roddy Beaubois and the improved team chemistry" will be the difference maker this year?
I know personally, I'm sick and tired of the Suns doing nothing in the off season and then reading an article written by someone wrapped around Sarver's thumb about how they didn't need roster improvements because Barbosa and Diaw would improve while Amare would start playing defense.
In the case of the Suns, my understanding is that they DID offer Amare for KG and there were two problems. First, KG was not interested in going to Phoenix if it meant he didn't get to play with Amare (meaning the Suns would've had trouble securing an extension from him) and second, McHale was more impressed with Al Jefferson than Amare. So I have a hard time faulting Phoenix for not landing KG. The Mavs didn't have an offer that trumped a package centered around Jefferson, and that along with McHale's Boston ties means I have a hard time faulting either the Suns or Mavs for not getting him. And we can all agree that the Lakers benefited from collusion (and the appeal of Kwame Brown's massive expiring contract to Memphis' penny-pinching ownership) in getting Gasol.
Maybe that's true of Sarver, but not Cuban. Like I said, we can debate the wisdom of Cuban's moves but not his desire or financial commitment to winning a le.After each team's core peaked in 2007 and it became obvious they would need improvements to stay in contention, each front office has been perfectly content with a 50 win team that doesn't have much of a chance at winning it all
Getting Joe Johnson would definitely help the Mavs a lot. Sure, he tends to be more of a shooter, but truth is, the Mavs need some better shooting. They are not that great of a 3pt shooting team anymore, and he would definitely help to improve that, and create a lot better spacing for guys like Dirk, Butler, and Roddy to attack. Keep in mind, he will also be playing 2nd fiddle to Dirk. I'd put money on it that he would become a much more efficient scorer, and player in general here in Dallas, not being relied upon so much for scoring. He can go back to what he was for Phoenix - a damn good shooter and defender, and a very well rounded player. When he had a legit superstar creating for him (Nash), the guy shot a sick 48% from the 3pt line. I think having guys like Kidd and Dirk being able to take attention away will help him tremendously. People who think that the Mavs would still have no chance at contending against the Lakers are nuts. Remember, the Lakers were an offensive rebound away from being taken 7 games by the 8th seed Thunder, and the Lakers only won 2 more games than the Mavs did through the season, despite the Mavs having quite a few more injuries to deal with, as well as a midseason trade. They were some bad coaching and better chemistry away from being in the 2nd round, and possibly in the WCF. The Mavs are not far off at all, and a full offseason to allow Joe Johnson, Roddy B, and Brendan Haywood to all get used to the Mavs and their system could really put the Mavs over the top. Then if they can add Gooden and a better backup such as Shaq or Gortat, they could be pretty damn scary.
this i could live with.
i'd rather that player help, rather than add to the problem. we don't need another pussy jumpshooter that's easy to close out on in the halfcourt and will choke in the playoffs. we need a guy that can penetrate and create offense for himself. i mean i would take him but not at the cost of our only young guy with potential, no way.
There are rumors of McHale turning down a KG Amare deal (rumors started up by the Phoenix media when fans started to question why it wasn't done), but the part about him wanting to play with Amare is bull . During Amare's rookie season Marbury decided it would be smart to call KG and tell him how much better Amare would be than he is and how much more potential he has, since then Amare and KG have been at each other's throats when they play each other. KG wanted to go play with Steve Nash who was one of his best friends at the time.
As far as Gasol, we can cry collusion all we want. But until I have proof the Suns offered a package that got rejected equivalent or better than LA's package, I'm gonna place the blame at their feet for not doing anything to prevent LA from getting Pau. Unfortunately I know for a fact they didn't try to get Gasol since the expiring contract and two first rounders they gave to Seattle for nothing + draft rights to a Spanish league star they traded for nothing was similar to the package LA gave for Gasol. Since Nelson and Cuban haven't said anything about an offer they made, I'm willing to bet they didn't make an effort to get Gasol either.
EDIT: I don't question Mark Cuban's financial commitment, but I question how much time, effort, and energy he wants to spend getting Dallas a championship, and how willing he is to make changes that aren't absolutely necessary. It doesn't seem like Cuban ever makes changes before it becomes so obvious that Ray Charles can see that a change needs to be made (Robert Sarver is the same in this respect).
It just seems to me that if Cuban was really investing time and effort into trying to improve Dallas, it wouldn't have taken him so long to see the problem Josh Howard was, or how much of a problem Avery Johnson was, or how bad Antoine Wright and Devean George were, along with other things.
Last edited by DUNCANownsKOBE2; 06-28-2010 at 02:26 PM.
Everybody knows he's not going anywhere. If other teams thought Dirk might actually leave Dallas, the line would form to the left for his services.
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