Isn't Jamison like 34? Yeah, Lebron has all kinds of time to make that work, and win 6 rings with Jamison as his #2 so that he can possibly reach GOAT status as you all think he could have...
Michael Jordan gave Chicago time to find younger players like Pippen. Cleveland didn't have the luxury of being able to take a long term approach with a team built around a player who had always shown interest in going somewhere else from day one.
By no means am I saying the Cavs did a good job surrounding Lebron with a good cast, they made plenty of ups that led to this, but Lebron didn't do them any favors with the lack of patience he had.
The Cavs had LeBron for 7 seasons. He signed his extension three years ago. They had time to take a longterm approach. They just didn't make the best choices with trades, free agent acquisitions, and draft picks.
7 seasons is enough time to find at least one or two players who are good fits next to LeBron. 7 years is the same amount of seasons Jordan was with the Bulls when they won their first championship.
Pippen came as a rookie to begin Jordans 4th year.
Jamison came as an old man in the middle of Lebrons 7th year.
big difference.
bron had plenty of patience, and the Cavs didnt even seem to be doing anything that looked proactive, other than providing him with more glorified role players, none of which were capable #2 options.
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Except for the fact that Parker has always been, at worst, a very good penetrating guard. Even in 2003 with his ball-handling issues, he was still good enough to get into the defense. Mo is a spot up shooter and little else.
Shaq was 5th in scoring. Antawn was well shy of that because of the midseason trade.Shaq and Atwan Jamison.
SJax was the 3rd option on that team. Mo was the 2nd. Huge difference. You can afford for your 3rd option to be a shooter. Your 2nd option needs to be able to terrorize a defense, or at least make them adjust.If you're gonna criticize Mo Williams, what exactly could Stephen Jackson do on offense in 2003 other than hit outside shots? Back then he had little to no ball handling ability.
Oh, and by the way, SJax actually knows how to play defense. So the Spurs 3rd option on the team was roughly as efficient as scoring as the Cavs #2 guy this year in the playoffs (where Mo disappeared), and played better D, as well as having more size, better rebounding, and more steals.
Except the fact that Shaq's about as fast now as an average man on crutches. Robinson wasn't exactly spry in 03, but Shaq is routinely a liability on defense now.Shaq provided nothing less than what Robinson provided.
There were whispers about him considering a trade demand only 2 years into his NBA career. Like I said, the Cavs ed up plenty (lol Luke Jackson), but it's not like they knew they'd be getting Lebron for 7 years from day 1. It was obvious after the Cavs missed the playoffs in 2005 that Lebron had already gotten impatient with the Cavs organization and wanted to be in win now mode. Because of that, they overpayed Larry Hughes and Donyell Marshall that off season knowing Lebron might not sign an extension two years later if he didn't start seeing immediate results, and those two signings eventually led to them being in salary cap with no way of getting out.
Would they have taken a successful long term approach if Lebron let them? Who knows. I'm probably giving them too much benefit of the doubt given that they haven't shown any great ability to find talent. All I'm saying is that he didn't make it as easy for the Cavs to build around him as he could have. Kevin Durant has shown a willingness to stick it out with OKC, and as a result they haven't made any short sited moves and have had 3 other top 5 picks to give Durant help.
Oh, and I forgot to mention the Spurs pace of game was roughly 90 points, vs. the Cavs 100+. So Parker's 15 PPG are worth quite a bit more than Mo's, as are SJax's numbers.
And what does Durant have to show for that, exactly? His team hasn't even sniffed the Finals yet. Regardless. This is on the Cavs. They had the best player in the NBA for the last 2-3 seasons and everyone knew how good James was going to be, and they couldn't court any talent better than Mo Williams to join him.
Raise your hand if you're pretending to care about the city of Cleveland.
Problem is the NBA landscape now. The current and recent forms of the NBA CBA and free agency allows this to be more of a possibility. Back in the 1980s, it wasn't that Jordan wouldn't have gotten frustrated and demanded a trade either, which he may have anyway, but it was that franchise type players leaving in free agency just didn't happen, certainly not at the frequency it does in today's NBA. Teams kept their franchise players back then. It's more to the state of the NBA landscape than it has to do with Michael Jordan being more loyal or more patient.
Pick a lane and stick with it. You kept talking about Parker's stats, and now you're all the sudden not using stats at all since you realize Mo Williams' stats were no worse. Now you're argument is that Parker is better because he was a good penetrating guard, while even admitting he had ball handling issues? Parker ran pick and rolls, he didn't have the ability to beat his own man off the dribble back then. He got into the paint running pick and rolls with the best big man in the NBA, no different than how Mo Williams got himself open shots playing off Lebron James.
Shaq was their 3rd option when healthy, he was 5th in total points because of his injury. Entering the playoffs, the Cavs 2nd, 3rd, and 4th options were Mo Williams, Shaq, and Antwan Jamison.
You're saying Tony Parker terrorized defenses in 2003? C'mon. Tony Parker was the same inconsistent liability of a 2nd option as Mo Williams was. They both benefited hugely from Duncan's/Lebron's presence on the court, neither one was a great individual player.
You're right, S-Jax did play defense, largely because of the example Tim Duncan set for all the players on that team. Lebron James signed off on all of Cleveland's moves to surround him with sub par defensive players. When Stephen Jackson was available this year, Lebron could have easily gone to Danny Ferry and said trade Ilgauskas for him, and G-State woulda done it. Lebron instead prefered to have teammates like Delonte West and Mo Williams who would make Cleveland a better offensive team and hurt their D.
Agreed 2010 Shaq < 2003 D-Rob on D, but 2010 Shaq > 2003 D-Rob on O. Lebron had a say in what players would be brought in, he signed off on the Cavs moving further and further away from a defensive mind set with players like Shaq, Mo Williams and Antwan Jamison.
2010 Cavs averaged 91.1 possessions per game. 2003 Spurs averaged 90 possessions per game. Minimal difference.
Lets see, his team won 50 games in his 3rd year, just like Lebron's team in Lebron's 3rd year. Unlike Lebron's team though, his team didn't need to use its cap room to overpay mediocre talent. KD's team is loaded with young, promising players, and has cap room to still further improve.
I followed it up by commenting that Mo scored 15 PPG on a team that scores in the ~103 range. Parker did his on a team that regularly didn't break 90.
So your 2nd option is a limp noodle with no appreciable skills other than shooting in the playoffs, and your 3rd and 4th guys have an average age of 36 with about a million miles a piece on their knees?Shaq was their 3rd option when healthy, he was 5th in total points because of his injury. Entering the playoffs, the Cavs 2nd, 3rd, and 4th options were Mo Williams, Shaq, and Antwan Jamison.
Parker was more than a jump-shooter, is what I'm saying. And even if you make the argument that Parker and Mo are roughly equal, the rest of LeBron's team is horrible as you go down the line. Varejao would have rarely, if ever played on the 03 Spurs, and saw major minutes for this Cavs team.You're saying Tony Parker terrorized defenses in 2003? C'mon. Tony Parker was the same inconsistent liability of a 2nd option as Mo Williams was. They both benefited hugely from Duncan's/Lebron's presence on the court, neither one was a great individual player.
So now it's the responsibility of the player to go out and sign other players. Got it. I mean, why shouldn't a 22 year old player be able to design the perfect basketball team to win a le? If you're LeBron and the front office comes to you saying, "We can get Donyell Marshall, but if he doesn't sign we might get nothing", what do you do? It's LeBron's fault because he wanted his team to get better, and hoped the marginal improvements he was seeing would be enough over time?You're right, S-Jax did play defense, largely because of the example Tim Duncan set for all the players on that team. Lebron James signed off on all of Cleveland's moves to surround him with sub par defensive players. When Stephen Jackson was available this year, Lebron could have easily gone to Danny Ferry and said trade Ilgauskas for him, and G-State woulda done it. Lebron instead prefered to have teammates like Delonte West and Mo Williams who would make Cleveland a better offensive team and hurt their D.
Agreed 2010 Shaq < 2003 D-Rob on D, but 2010 Shaq > 2003 D-Rob on O. Lebron had a say in what players would be brought in, he signed off on the Cavs moving further and further away from a defensive mind set with players like Shaq, Mo Williams and Antwan Jamison.
The biggest acquisition the Cavs made in 7 years was to sign a 34 year old Antawn Jamison. That has absolutely nothing to do with LeBron, and he cannot be blamed for it. That is a failure of the Cavs organization as a whole.
Wake me when it happens, but I'm not expecting it any time in the LeBron era. I'm just not. He's a quitter who only thinks about how to advance his own desires. It has nothing to do with a team...and a team is needed to win championships.
-LOL @ Dok's arguments about Lebron having to be patient..he never played with a top 20 player during his entire career, he was there since 2004..what else do you want?.."it was obvious he was impatient by 2005" LOL..according to whom?..link?..
There's only so much you can do for so long..
-Duncan's 2003 feat of winning a le with his 2nd option averaging less than 15 PPG has only been done twice in NBA history(Hakeem was the other)..those happened in weak years, obviously, since it would be impossible to do otherwise..either way, amazing feat, so it's unfair to compare it to these rare moments that guys like Jordan couldn't even do..
-Obviously the NFL has a lot more parity..it's a better league in every way..it doesn't have rigged trades either, and you can't change the entire league with 1 move..
-The fact that the NBA has 2 powerhouses doesn't really change how I view my team..it obviously doesn't change anything, die-hard fans will cheer either way..
Kobe is a quitter and he has 5 les..
Kobe wanted to be the main guy on a championship team, there is nothing wrong with that. There is nothing wrong with being a second banana either.
Don't have to worry about that since my grew hard last night.
Nobody is hating on Lebron for wanting to leave Cleveland. He's a free man and en led to do whatever the he wants to do. He owes no team, city, or owner anything.
IT WAS THE WAY HE WENT ABOUT DOING WHAT HE DID THAT PEOPLE ARE RIGHTFULLY UPSET ABOUT. IF YOU CAN'T SEE THIS THEN YOU'RE A ING IDIOT.
The way he did it?..you mean the way he raised millions of $ for the Boys & Girls Club with The Decision?..people hate that?..
People act like LeBron left them for another team...NO he CHOSE a team because thats what free agents do. Once your a free agent your not en led to your former team.
You're not this stupid. Quit trolling MiamiHeat
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