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Looks like it tripled in value since its low point. That probably won't happen again.
I understand you are upset since everything you were arguing here turned out to be completely false, but resorting to straw men again is just pathetic.
Actually only 20% agreed (some of the ins utional investors that had bought in at the end on the cheap) and it was crammed down on the others.
Looks like it tripled in value since its low point. That probably won't happen again.
I understand you are upset since everything you were arguing here turned out to be completely false, but resorting to straw men again is just pathetic.
Take it up with the Wall Street Journal:
Majority of GM Bondholders Back Debt-for-Equity Deal
http://online.wsj.com/article/NA_WSJ...042969721.html
As I understand it the shares for the IPO are going to come from two sources. The govt is going to sell off just enough of it's stake in the company so that they own less than 50% of it. Those proceeds go to the Treasury. There are also going to be new preferred shares created, the proceeds of which go to the company. Those new preferred shares will also end up diluting the shares that the bondholders received.
So someone told WSJ 54% approved.
CNN at the same time said 20%.
http://money.cnn.com/2009/05/28/news...ion=2009052810
I honestly don't know the exact number but I know it was the speculators that bought discounted bonds that cut the deal.
From your article:
Since this article was written on a Friday and the rest of the bondholders had until Saturday afternoon to approve, I will assume a majority did so which was reflected in the WSJ article the following Monday.According to GM's filing, advisors to the unofficial committee of major bondholders which accepted the deal hold about 20% of $27 billion in unsecured bonds.
The administration official said that about 15% of the bondholders not represented by the committee accepted the original deal. The official added it will now be up to the committee to round up additional support from other bondholders.
The remaining bondholders have until Saturday afternoon to indicate whether they support the new offer.
its better this way. gm wouldn't be the only one suffering.
hooray for corporate welfare and trickle down economics.
sub contractors and jobs. taxes and families. another death for american manufacturing.
hooray it's still breathing.
did you ever consider that?
seems like a ponzi scheme
Yes, I have considered it. Your case for how important it is to hold taxpayers liable for private business losses is very compelling.
in the long run, i think it's important for america's manufacturing base.
they are paying back their bailout.......in case you didn't notice.
According to GM's own IPO filing about only about 1/4 of the cars they build are getting built in North America these days. That 1/4 includes Canada and Mexico.
By next year GM will be building cars in China and importing them into the U.S.
So who's manufacturing base are we really supporting?
They're not going to come anywhere close to paying back the full amount they were given.they are paying back their bailout.......in case you didn't notice.
the current base of american workers. would you like these car companies to be forced into using american factories only?
how close?They're not going to come anywhere close to paying back the full amount they were given.
Well considering that all they have done so far is use government money to pay back government money to get more government money I would say not close at all.
They took 6.7 Billion out of a 13.4 billion escrow account created by the government when they were in bankruptcy (the escrow account was for working capital) to pay the original "loan" back (the other 40+ billion they gave GM was for stock) so they could borrow another 10 Billion from DOE to meet new CAFE standards.
In truth, they haven't paid back a ing dime and have borrowed an additional 3.3 Billion.
so, you're saying they're not paying back?
What I'd like is to not be in the corporate welfare business. But I've accepted that I'm in the minority on that.
Not very. Basically GM would have to achieve a market capitalization twice as big as they ever were while only making about half the cars for the shares the treasury owns to be worth the money put into GM. Not going to happen.how close?
uhhhhh...yeah. I'm saying when GM gives the US 6.7 Billion and then turns around and borrows 10 Billion that they didn't "pay back" and instead borrowed an additional 3.3 Billion.
It really IS simple third grade math.
GM builds cars abroad and the foreigh auto makers build cars hear. The problem for GM was the inability to compete with the imports on cost driven primarily by their crippling union contracts.
The order of liquidation is secured lien holders, bondholders and then stock holders. Where do union members fit in? The only claim they would have would be for unpaid earned wages. Those claims didn't exist.
If the union labor was given a choice of restructuring their deal to fall in line with what the going rate for their skill was or be unemployed I am confident the majority would take the job. That leaves the bondholders to have their fate determined by the normal process of bankruptcy liquidation.
I agree GM should have been helped. But this was a bone thrown to union labor by Obama at the expense of the bondholder and taxpayer.
you didn't answer the question, unless you're implying that they'll never pay back.
for the record, is that what you're implying?
Of course I answered you question. Can you add and subtract? They have not paid any loans back and in fact have borrowed an additional 3.3 billion.
Last edited by CosmicCowboy; 08-20-2010 at 11:33 AM.
At least the company is turning a profit now.
they just recently turned a profit. i'm not implying that they have paid back. i'm implying that there's a plan (success or failure to be determined) to start paying back.
have you concluded that they'll never pay back?
I have concluded that the US will never get back any substantial portion of the 50 billion they put into GM. Will they EVER get ANY back? Probably some token repayments that will be heavily publicized. Eventually other things will take front and center priority and the public will just forget about the GM loans.
Not that hard to turn a profit when the government comes along, gives you a boatload of cash and tells everyone you owe money to to piss off.
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