Congrats Kevin Durant....

[ezau]

When everything's said and done, KD will surpass whatever Kobe has achieved in his career.

[Koolaid_Man]

Video, please??? I need a new sig. I got the one with Malone drop kicking Timmy in the face, but not that one.

I'm working on it...that one's a hard one...should be ready soon...from what I remember it was some pretty disturbing for Spur fan...Robinson lay on the floor foaming at the mouth...it was a thing of pure beauty....

[j-money24]

kobe is old

And still the best...

[ezau]

And still the best...

at riding someone else's coattails, tee hee.

[Killakobe81]

When everything's said and done, KD will surpass whatever Kobe has achieved in his career.

He might. It's not impossible or a huge stretch to think he will. He has a long way to go ...but I think if he stays healthy he has a good a shot as any young player of surpassing Kobe, outside of Lebron.

[nkdlunch]

When everything's said and done, KD will surpass whatever Kobe has achieved in his career.

and he might do it without the constant help of a HOF bigman, and collusion

[Venti Quattro]

lol spurs fans crying collusion

[TheMACHINE]

Gasol is going to be in the HoF?

[Koolaid_Man]

Let me know when it's out the oven. I'll create a thread for it.

My Asian buddy with access to 3rd world (offshore) servers is still working on this one...hopefully we'll crack it soon...

Not many copies in production because Jazz officials refused to allow the replay to be shown in the stadium on the big screens. They were afraid that Jazz fans would turn against Malone. However, for now, I do have a consolation prize in Black & White and in Color that you can use in your sig...

[ezau]

and he might do it without the constant help of a HOF bigman, and collusion

He has already proven that by winning almost singlehandedly in this year's worlds. The guy is obviously no Robin unlike Kobe who has spent a majority of his career being someone else's sidekick.

[ezau]

Robinson took an inadvertent elbow from Malone, whereas Kobe gets slapped by a right cross against a smaller man. What a pussy

[HarlemHeat37]

I'd say a 29 point, 19 rebound game in a win against the eventual NBA champions is a pretty dominant game. If you're going to try to prop up James for individual playoff games, you could do the same for Durant. Thing is Durant has only had one playoff series under his belt. LeBron has a dozen or so. I could make the argument that LeBron can't touch Richard Jefferson because Jefferson has had a very good performance in an NBA Finals win whereas LeBron is unproven in the NBA Finals and hadn't even won a game. But does that make sense? It's a similar argument as yours.

It's not similar, their roles were completely different, so were their supporting casts..

Lebron has beaten an elite team in the playoffs with dominance, and he's even done it with mediocre teammates..yes, he's failed as well, but he has also proven himself, unlike Durant..

You can absolutely make a comparison between LeBron and Durant because both played on Team USA squads while they were considered among the elite players in the league. The comparison is valid. Just because you particularly want to focus on a difference, it doesn't make the comparison poor. The comparison is fine. And what's more is that LeBron was "given" more responsibility than Durant on their respective teams. Durant took on responsibility by his play on the court rather than actually being given any of that leadership or responsibility.




You can argue that if you want. But the thing is that it's arguable and arguable only. There's no denying or refuting that Durant was the best player on this 2010 FIBA tournament Team USA squad. It's not even close to being questionable. You could argue LeBron was the best player on the 2008 USA team. But there are plenty of people with plenty of arguments that will tell you he was not.




Not pointless. You just don't want to admit LeBron couldn't do in 2006 what Durant did these past couple weeks even though LeBron had a much more stacked team.

And why on earth would you mention compe ion, especially Dirk and Germany and Pau and Spain? Dirk aside, Germany's squad in 2006 sucked. And Team USA didn't even play Spain in the 2006 FIBA world championship tournament. Why mention Spain as better compe ion than this year when Team USA didn't even play Spain in 2006? Moreover, the only time Team USA could have played Spain would have been in the gold medal match had Team USA not lost to Greece, and in the gold medal match, Pau Gasol didn't even play because he got injured in the semis. So your "compe ion" argument is even sillier. Let's talk about that great 2006 compe ion and how you dwell on Dirk and Gasol and Ginobili and Team USA got beat by a Greece team that didn't even have an NBA player on their roster.






Lol do you like making arguments against yourself? LeBron had Wade, Carmelo, Dwight Howard, Chris Paul, Chris Bosh among others on that 2006 team but somehow you're still trying to discredit Durant when the next best players on this Team USA squad were arguably Lamar Odom and Chauncey Billups. How on earth does that make any sense?

It's not a matter of "player usage" or having to share the leadership role. Team USA in 2006 LOST. There would essentially be no debate if Team USA didn't lose in 2006. But they lost. with more talent. To a team that didn't have NBA players. Durant led a team, not by any given leadership role. He led by his performance on the court. He was the best player on the team and in the tournament because of his play on the court. That's more than what LeBron did in 2006. It's even more than what LeBron did in 2008 when Team USA took Olympic gold.

You try to skew things to make it hard for LeBron to have shined because he had better teammates. To me, LeBron having better teammates and still losing makes what Durant did these past couple weeks more amazing.




You could make the argument. But it's merely an arguable claim that is easily and readily refutable and debatable.

The OP's original claim has more validity than some of your arguments and points you've presented. Kevin Durant led a team to gold. LeBron has failed to lead a team to gold in 2006 and wasn't clearly the leader in 2008.

While that last point is admittedly debatable, the fact that it's debatable makes the original claim by the OP a valid enough point for you not to call it a stupid comparison. When LeBron was leader of a Team USA squad in a FIBA World Championship tournament, the team lost and failed to win gold. The comparison is valid.

You have completely turned this argument into an argument I wasn't trying to get into..I never turned this into a Lebron vs. Durant International success argument, but that's what you have forced me into(in case you say that I tried to make the argument comparing them)..again, like I said, I don't think Lebron played better than Durant in the Fiba tournament..

My original point stands though..Lebron has been the best player on an actual Olympic Gold medal team IMO(against better compe ion), so I don't buy the OP's argument that he hasn't, even if it's arguable as to whether Lebron was the best player or not..IMO he has, thus making my comment valid..

I can agree that Lebron failed to lead the 2006 team to a Gold medal(against tougher compe ion), it doesn't really change my point that Lebron has been the best player on a Gold medal team in 2008(IMO), even if he failed once prior..

If you're getting technical here, then I can agree that Lebron hasn't done exactly what Durant did, which was be the unquestioned best player on a Gold medal team..however, you can say the same thing about Jordan, Kobe and all the other greats that have been on Gold medal teams in the past..thus making his point stupid and pointless IMO, and a weak attempted shot at Lebron..

[HarlemHeat37]

"Besting me" in that argument is a bit much, Harlem. I acquiesced that your claim that LeBron was a better three point shooter off the dribble than Kobe was correct based on the statistical information you gave that you failed to cite with any resources or links. On your word, I acquiesced on a tangental point that LeBron was a better isolation and off the dribble three point shooter last season. You did have to go "mogrovejo" in order to argue your side.

And at the end, I still disagreed that LeBron was a better three point shooter. Kobe had a better three point percentage than LeBron last season, so you were still wrong. Earlier in that thread, you bottom lined things with no evidence saying LeBron was the better three point shooter, period. I merely pointed out that he wasn't.

You have an interesting definition of "besting" another in an argument when you only prove one point correct, when it wasn't even the actual point of issue of the argument, but a tangent. But your tangent point turned out right, based on your mogrovejo stats.

And at the end of the day, I'd still take Kobe over LeBron when it comes to three point shooting.

Um..

- Your argument was that you have to account for the types of 3-point shots these players take, not just spot-up shooting..you attempted to use this argument in Kobe's favor, and I used your own argument against you in Lebron's favor..I proved you wrong using your own argument/criteria, yet you're still in Kobe's favor here?..

- "Mogrovejo stats"?..they're the most accurate NBA stats you can find, they describe games and every time of scenario..you can't really find stats that are more accurate than these..

- You're saying Kobe is a better 3-point shooter, despite the fact that Lebron fits the personal criteria you described for your argument..that doesn't really make any sense, and the only thing you have going for you is Kobe's slight advantage in overall 3-point % for the entire year, despite taking a lot easier shots..

- I proved one point to be correct?..the only point you had in the argument was that Kobe had a better overall 3-point shooting by .03% or something similar..I proved to you that Lebron took a much higher amount of difficult shots, yet only finished behind Kobe by a few .% points..


I even explained my reasoning for using the term "besting" so that you wouldn't take it personally, apparently you disagree though..fair enough, but I completely disagree..I absolutely had that argument in my favor IMO..

[JamStone]

It's not similar, their roles were completely different, so were their supporting casts..

Lebron has beaten an elite team in the playoffs with dominance, and he's even done it with mediocre teammates..yes, he's failed as well, but he has also proven himself, unlike Durant..

Their roles were pretty similar. Again, Durant only has had one opportunity in the playoffs.

You seem content to compare Durant's one playoff performance to LeBron's but you're crying, ing, and moaning about comparing Durant's FIBA performance to LeBron's FIBA experience in 2006.

You have completely turned this argument into an argument I wasn't trying to get into..I never turned this into a Lebron vs. Durant International success argument, but that's what you have forced me into(in case you say that I tried to make the argument comparing them)..again, like I said, I don't think Lebron played better than Durant in the Fiba tournament..

You did when you took offense to the original post and responded that LeBron had a gold medal. That precipitates the argument.

My original point stands though..Lebron has been the best player on an actual Olympic Gold medal team IMO(against better compe ion), so I don't buy the OP's argument that he hasn't, even if it's arguable as to whether Lebron was the best player or not..IMO he has, thus making my comment valid..

I can agree that Lebron failed to lead the 2006 team to a Gold medal(against tougher compe ion), it doesn't really change my point that Lebron has been the best player on a Gold medal team in 2008(IMO), even if he failed once prior..

Here are the problems. Being the best player on that gold medal team does not mean LeBron led that team to gold. The original post was about "leading" a team to gold. First, it's again merely and only arguable that LeBron was the best player on that Olympic Gold medal Team USA in 2008. He wasn't the leading scorer (Wade was), he wasn't the most efficient (Wade, Bosh, and Dwight were more efficient), he wasn't the leading assist maker (Chris Paul was), he wasn't the leader on defense (Kobe was), and he didn't close out the Gold Medal game, the only close game when everything was on the line (Kobe did). So, there are strong arguments that LeBron was neither the best player nor the leader of that gold medal Olympic team.

And again, because it's only "arguable" and the fact that LeBron failed to lead his team to gold in 2006, the original post has more validity than a lot of what you've argued in your posts in this thread.

And yes, LeBron failed to lead the 2006 Team USA to FIBA World Champion gold (with a much more stacked team than Durant had).

If you're getting technical here, then I can agree that Lebron hasn't done exactly what Durant did, which was be the unquestioned best player on a Gold medal team..however, you can say the same thing about Jordan, Kobe and all the other greats that have been on Gold medal teams in the past..thus making his point stupid and pointless IMO, and a weak attempted shot at Lebron..

Well you can't say the same thing about Jordan. Jordan was the unquestioned best player on the 1992 Dream Team.

And let's not get into a discussion about being "technical." You yourself used "technical" arguments in this thread, trying to draw small distinctions between LeBron and Durant to make the comparison not apply.

[Chieflion]

The entire Olympic roster claimed that Barkley was the best player in the 1992 Olympics.

[JamStone]

Um..

It's not worth revisiting the argument. I gave you due credit for the statistical information you provided. But yeah, it's not worth getting back into the argument.

I will ask...

- "Mogrovejo stats"?..they're the most accurate NBA stats you can find, they describe games and every time of scenario..you can't really find stats that are more accurate than these..

What are these "most accurate NBA stats you can find" and where was the source and link you can find them at?

[JamStone]

The entire Olympic roster claimed that Barkley was the best player in the 1992 Olympics.

Ok. I hadn't heard that before. Honestly. Good info.

[Chieflion]

Ok. I hadn't heard that before. Honestly. Good info.

Barkley was the player who lead the team in scoring with a high efficiency while Jordan had a miserable performance in the Olympics with less than 50% FG%.

At the 1992 Dream Team induction to the Hall of Fame, Magic and Bird both said Charles was the best player on that team with his play.

[Chieflion]

Ok. I hadn't heard that before. Honestly. Good info.

Barkley was the player who lead the team in scoring with a high efficiency while Jordan had a miserable performance in the Olympics with less than 50% FG%.

At the 1992 Dream Team induction to the Hall of Fame, Magic and Bird both said Charles was the best player on that team with his play. No one else disagreed.