We got idiots talking out of their ass like if Kobe wins 7 championships, he surpasses Jordan and idiots who say LeBron James needs to win NBA championships before he should be considered the best player in the NBA. Really now?
Why does it matter if this guy has more championships than the other guy when talking about performances? Does going 6/24 get vilified because he had 15 rebounds and the TEAM won the game, not him, the TEAM, mean he didn't suck?
Does losing a playoff series but putting up a great performance make you a worse basketball player? I don't get it. Could someone please explain to me why winning championships make a player a basketball player?
If we're talking about on an all-time basis to be considered better then a player like Duncan or Hakeem you need championships or you're like everyone else an extremely talented player who couldn't elevate his team to a championship. Everyone in that top 10 range are both extrenly talented and have multiple rings.
To be considered the best player in the Nba is based on a single season instead of a career so I don't think championships should be taken into consideration for that.
I am talking about being a better player. Not "greatness", as some would define, racking up accolades and NBA les. The second point is what I am after. Why do idiots like to throw in championships? Does that make a player more dominant, a better player, more skilled, have more stats, more impactful? If not, why are these same idiots saying that LeBron needs to win a championship before he is considered the best player in the NBA?
on an individual plateau yes. winning a championship is like losing your virginity. after the first time, you'll get better at sex. so that means you should be a better basketball player because you've already reached the top. but vis-a-vis other greats, i'm not sure. some players did more spectacular things than others while winning a ring. some won in style and some barely got over the hump.
but winning championships IS a great insulator from the prying media.
btw nice thread, Chieflion
On your point, if someone touches flour once, do they become a better baker? How does winning a championship make one a better player? There is no particular difference between "You are great at sex" and "You are good at sex". They basically mean the same thing although one might add " , this feels good" to the list, but that isn't the point. The point is that, in basketball, there is a difference being great on the all-time list against being the best basketball player that particular season.
If someone wins a championship once, they don't automatically become a better basketball player. A championship takes a TEAM to win it, a very good one, I must add. You were again, defining "greatness", not who is the "better" basketball player. Players do earn respect for winning championships, not sitting on the bench like Adam Morrison, but that doesn't make them a better basketball player.
Now, for example, if Zach Randolph suddenly wins a championship, would you consider him a better basketball player, assuming he gets traded to the Orlando Magic or Miami Heat and then they won the championship, how is he a better basketball player than what he was in the past?
We can keep the Kobe Vs. Jordan for another day, but, as far as the winning a championship getting James off the snide, oh yeah. That motherf'er puts his pants on the same as everybody else. He'll answer like everybody else.
I remember, I say, I remember when Daddy was crusin' around without one. They (Media) was fixin' to camp out in his for forever & a day. Not Kobe, but Daddy.
Go back and view the video in the immediate aftermath of Lakers Vs Pacers when it was over and the look of absolute anguish on the face of Daddy as he searches for his people at the restraining ropes in Staples. It's a humbling sight. No game face. No Shaq Daddy bull . O'Neal knew.
James been lucky. Media ain't takin' off after him yet with tar & feathers. Different NBA. Different Media. Different America.
He's a lucky guy, the ringless .
What's your point? So if Shaq didn't win the championship because of a bad supporting cast, he wouldn't be considered the best player that year?
Then again, you also think Will Hunting is a real poster and keep wanting him to come back, so why should I take you seriously?
You don't have to take me seriously. You asked a question, I'm goin' to take off after it like the last pork chop on the plate.
That pile a in Miami is gonna ring, or, woe be to him & everybody that sides him.
Now,
Let us proceed...
Be careful there, Cubby, lakaluva doesn't like anyone eating pork chops or any other pork related food substances.
The kicker? That Thursday when we hit at 16 the first thought I had (after Luva) was Will Hunting. If I could only fix one solitary mother'fer's wagon Will Hunting's would be my immediate choice.
Just like that.
It is what it is. It may not actually make them a better player but face it, it does distinguish one's career. You all really don't believe MJ would have the status he does if he hadn't won championships do you? Get real.
Don't know how to read? I said how it makes them a better basketball player, not how people and the media view them. How does a championship or multiple championships make someone a better player than he already is? Does that give them a bonus stat addition? This ain't stupid games like WoW or like this that wearing championship rings make you a better player.
No one post in this thread I made wanted you to focus on how a player looks over a damn career. I am talking about 1 season. Can you count them? 1.
Yes, it DOES make them a better player as once they've tasted the thrill of winning a championship it makes then hunger for another one. Something that prince james has yet to taste but rather has enjoyed the bitter taste of defeat which you would think would make him a better player and not a quitter. It isn't really hard to understand. Kobe works hard during the off season and it pays off.
How do you prove this bull ? How did Kobe become a better player after 2009 into 2010? Working hard in the off-season is an entirely separate issue than winning a championship. What is with all these unquantifiable bull you all are spewing out? Championships do not make players better. They are only looked upon as such.
How does having championships make someone automatically a better player? We have idiots saying LeBron James isn't the best player in the NBA until he wins one. How does one suddenly become the best player after winning? He would basically be the same player he is before winning. All that hunger and bull only applies to Kobe Bryant, it is as if every other player doesn't work hard in the off-season and all that crap.
Because James has fled the side door on more than one occasion. He's ringless, ipso facto, he's fair game.
Jordan had to sustain the berating. Daddy as well.
Smith sits up there on that TnT set smirking at Barkley secure in the knowledge of what is & what isn't.
James should consider himself fortunate that he wasn't born 15 years earlier than he was. They'd a ate him alive.
Sometimes players ultimately win because they altered their game in some fundamental way that made their team better and consequently made themselves a better basketball player. But in James and Jordan's case I wouldn't say it made a difference. I'm one of the few people that will give James a pass for last year, as I really believe that the Delonte , if true, ed with his head.
But even ignoring that James was so spectacular in the 2008-09 playoffs that it was clear to anyone thinking with their head and not their emotions or biases that he was the best player in the league. He sported a ing 37.4 PER for that playoffs. I know some people myself included scoff PER at times but its a good measurement of how statistically productive a player and James was off the charts. Plus even last year he lost a series to Boston in which Jamison and Mo Williams lost their individual matchups with KG and Rondo to a staggeringly massive degree.
In Jordan's case there's more of a point. The naysayers will point to his being told in the huddle by Jackson to pass to Paxson to close out the LA series but they were already up 3-1 at that point. Joe Dumars did comment though that he had finally figured out how to beat their Jordan Rules defense by being unselfish in the 91 conference finals and passing the ball early in the double team. But I really agree to a great extent with Bill Simmons who in his book argues that Jordan fully matured as a player in 88 or 89 but it took his teammates a few years to catch up and stop murdering him every spring.
Basically, if a player finally plays the game the right way and that change is what makes his team win a championship then yea that makes him a better player. If he just plays the same way he always has been such as in the case of Kobe then no. no.
Doesn't prove . As far as everyone was concerned, all three were considered the best players in the NBA even before they won a le, Jordan in 1988, LeBron in 2009, Shaq in 2000 (before he won the le). Even though they were criticized, they were still the best.
Then again, why should anyone act like you have a basketball opinion as an Arizona Lakers fan who piggybacked on the Lakers because they had les?
I ain't here to be believed. I'm here to mark the spot/tote up the cyphers/check assholes.
And that's just the way it's gonna be.
Kobe was pretty much exactly the same player the year he lost to Celtics versus the year he beat the Magic. Here's his numbers from 08 versus 09 in the playoffs:
2008 Kobe (21 games): 30.1 pts, 5.7 reb, 5.6 ast, 3.3 TO, 22.0 FGA, 9.2 FTA, 47.9 FG%, 81 FT%, 30 3FG%, 41.1 MPG.
2009 Kobe (23 games): 30.2 pts, 5.3 reb, 5.5 ast, 2.6 TO, 23.0 FGA, 8.6 FTA, 45.7 FG%, 88 FT%, 35 3FG%, 40.9 MPG.
Suddenly because he won the media pumps up the story that he matured or some bull . Now if a player drastically changes his numbers or plays in some way differently and that is why the team wins you could make a case but Lebron's numbers were already plenty good enough to lead a team to a le in 2008-09.
Thank you. Someone actually brought forth the point I was trying to get at. A superstar also must have an excellent team beside him that will help him out to win a championship. So ultimately, it is still the TEAM that won the le. Although said player does play the most important role in winning a championship, you can't win championships with players and championships do not automatically make someone a better player. They must prove it.
Yes, by altering their game to be more efficient and playing to win, makes the player a better player, not just said result like a championship alone, regardless of the reasons of why the player won a championship.
Once again, thank you for another brilliant post. Kobe Bryant remained the same player or thereabout even after winning a le as the best player on the team versus losing the previous year.
Thank you so much for proving to all those idiots who believe Kobe Bryant had suddenly become a better player and could surpass Magic, Kareem, Jordan and all that jargon if he had more championships.
You can chase your asshole round your elbow till the cows come home. Lee missed that layup, Kobe shoveled it to Artest and that's just the way it's gonna be, O.J.
That's it, and that's all.
Lookit stick, I know you've been thinking of me, is there something you have to say you in war losing hump?
5,435 posts and none of them had or proved a point. You only proved that you are a bandwagoning Arizona Lakers fan and a pedophile.
That's it, and that's all.
And there's Will Hunting ready to check your asshole.
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