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You mean Duncan228? Seriously dude I don't know what the you're talking about. Produce a screenshot or copy of this so called PM. Or else just argue like everyone else and don't resort to making up random gibberish.
Ho Chi Minh City, indeed.
You mean Duncan228? Seriously dude I don't know what the you're talking about. Produce a screenshot or copy of this so called PM. Or else just argue like everyone else and don't resort to making up random gibberish.
Perkins.
tee, hee.
Kobe Bryant forcing up shots in game 7 of the 2010 finals sure was enough proof that he was playing like a smart player.
No, Dok. You sent me a PM beseeching me to give him the treatment during your firefight with him at the NFL Forum.
ha, ha.
He finally got it though inside a minute.
tee, hee.
Who do you think I am exactly? ducks?
I'll make this clear and then I'm out, you have no idea who my main account is no one does. I never pmed you under this account or any other. Produce a screenshot of this so called PM that someone sent you. It would be good for entertainment value in any case.
That's the best thing about intangibles they can't be measured so they can't be disproven.
Winning a ring is very often overrated. I have a thread in the works to explain my points better, it will be here one day soon. I have posted parts of it before.
For instance, many people's top 10 lists, in ring order are:
11 Rings: Bill Russell
6 Rings: Kareem
6 Rings: Jordan
5 Rings Magic
5 Rings Kobe
4 Rings: Duncan
4 Rings: Shaq
3 rings: Bird
2 Rings Chamberlain
2 rings: Hakeem
Having lived through most of the Russell era I can tell you Bill wasn't rated that high back then. After he retired and more players won multiple rings, his stock rose. Few people reaiize Boston won so many les not because of Russell alone, but because that dynasty had 8 hall of famers and 4 players on the top 50 at 50 year list. They were more stacked against the NBA than any current or past team wishes it were. I can make a convincing argument Oscar Robertson is the second greatest guard to ever play the game, but few place him on top 10 anymore, he has one ring which came after Russell left. Jerry West and Elgin Baylor took a bunch of scrubs to many finals against Russell but could never beat them. Yet, they managed to take them to three 7 game series that went down to the final seconds. Think the Celtics vs. Bulls series of 2009 done over 3 times. Yet no one places West and Baylor on a top 10. One of the most amazing players ever was Dr. J, yet he has but one le and 3 finals losses. He did beat Bird's Celtics twice. Maybe if you switch Dr. J. and MJ's career and team timelines, we consider Erving the GOAT.
Bottom line is you need a team to win it a ring. Superstar mentality is you need multiple rings to be considered among the greatest. The fans seem to be buying the latter take, making it the deciding factor. What's really funny to me is when someone tries to devalue Kobe's rings because he had help, yet doesn't do the same to Russell who had even more help than Kobe could ever of dreamed of having.
Myself, I am not certain I place Kobe, Shaq, or Duncan in a top 10 NBA all time. Those are the current active ring winning leaders, right? As I said, I am still working on a thread about how to create a top 10 and I am down to a top 20, no order.
I got the PM, daddy-O and I ain't postin' it. I'm framin' it & havin' Katie-girl hang it over my jack-off station.
I'll make this clear and then I'm out, you have no idea who my main account is no one does. I never pmed you under this account or any other. Produce a screenshot of this so called PM that someone sent you. It would be good for entertainment value in any case.
Gonna have the time of me life.
WOOT!
I know I never said "that winning a le make you better" ....but I do think some good points were made about in this thread. The best (not the horry's or Fisher's) once they win one get a thirst for more.That is why once Lebron wins one if he is what we THINK he is ...then he will get more.
Now as for the best player debate, it all depends on what you are measuring. I know I already said that Lebron has the most dominant, statistical and athletic impact from game to game. I don't dispute that. who can? Where I argued with Jamstone and Harlem (and others) is more about the "torch". I didnt create the "torch". It has been talked about and debated long before I started watching ball. But all I know is when I started watching ball you could not be the "best" or carry it without one. Lately there seems to be Kobe fans (pre 2peat) and Lebron supporters that seem to want to let this slide ...I don't. The le stands as validation of that greatness, the best of the best. Lebron has been an amazing player during the regular season and at times in the playoffs. But as he has flamed out ...Delonte or not ...it changes the view for some. He needs to finish. That is what many old schoolfolks need for him to take that torch. Lebron has the MVP's for his statistical dominance, and PER les. This is something less tangible, but even more critical, and Lebron knows this. MJ knew this, Kobe dies for it. Why do you think Lebron made the "decision." It is the PART OF IT I RESPECT the most ... he knows you NEED the ring. It's for Championship "cred". When you are an all-timer that ring puts you in an exclusive club.
The thing I find funny, many on here who crown Lebron as the best are some the same folks who mocked Dirk when people said he had surpassed Duncan (dirk's MVP year) how many LOL Dirk or Mavs threads did you "duncan fanbois" post? So Dirk cant be the best without a ring, but Lebron can? Hypocrites.
Not ringing and being the torch bearer, that's like dating a dime piece who is a tease. Yes it's great to parade her around, helps your ego that everyone thinks you have a fine piece of tail on your arm. When you enter a spot EVERYONE in that room is jealous. EXCEPT there is ONE guy in the corner who gives you a knowing smile. He just looks at you with a eating green. You know why? That prick has been to the promised land. He has tapped that ass, and you havent, and he KNOWS it. And until you have done the same he has something on you even though everyone else is riding your nuts. and the worst thing about it? You know it too ...
But see I don't agree. And i dont rate guys I haven't seen. Not that I dont appreciate History, (my major in college) but because I dont think you can make intelligent arguments for players you only have seen on NBA's greatest games or boxscores. You can appreciate their talent but how can you truly make a case without the context of watching the majority of the season and playoffs?
I started watching in 1980 so my best in order, with rings being a factor but not the only one (I think individual dominance and head to head matter a lot too):
1. MJ
2. Magic
3. Kareem
4. Kobe
5. Duncan
6. Shaq
7. Bird
8. Hakeem
9. Moses (forgot to include him, him and Isiah are underrated)
10. Isiah (holding for Lebron)
There's basically 2 lines of thought when it comes to rings...
1st line of thought is that you have multi-talented and faceted Mega-Stars that lead their team and who's by consensus considered the greatest of their A.) era, B.) position, or C.) All-time... these players usually have the numbers and championship pedigree to back them up. MJ, Magic, Bird, and Kobe,Kareem, Wilt, Shaq are in the category...
2nd line of thought is you have players that are good / decent that also wins les or capable of it but not considered the consensus best of their era, position, or all-time. This is the category that Tim Duncan, Jerry West, Barkley, Oscar Robertson, etc falls into.
For as good as he was Duncan's never mentioned as arguably the greatest or even the best ever like Kobe is. Maybe limited only at his position and solely based on his rings. But most of us know that in their primes head to head Malone would have absolutely shredded the weaker Duncan. It's no coincidence that Malone (who is a do ented pedophile) is the 2 greatest scorer in NBA history. I'd take a prime Malone over a prime Duncan any day of the week...Malone would impose his will on Duncan he'd make Duncan look like a Euro.
Also in my opinion winning rings in the old era when there was only 8 teams in the league renders them virtually meaningless...But rings just like home run records seem to be so called "hallowed"...therefore they still matter...just like winning the Olympic "ring" or gold medal in this case. If you don't win you don't get first dibs...In fact After Kobe won his fifth le Magic said on ESPN that Kobe deserves a statue next to his outside Staples Center. Later that night, Magic said that Kobe was now his equal, although not yet his superior.
"The great thing about the Lakers is that we judge by championships,'' said Magic, who -- along with Kareem, Kobe and crucial role player Derek Fisher -- has won a handful of rings with the Lakers. "So when Kobe gets that sixth one, then he'll be The Man; he'll be the greatest Laker. And I'll have no problem giving him that.''
So in order to respect the game like my NBA forefathers. I'm going with the opinion of MJ, Bird, Magic, Hakeem, Reggie Miller and that is that Kobe is currently the best player in the league. As far as where he ranks All-time. I'd say he's currently ranked 5th even with 5 rings.
MJ
Magic
Kareem
Wilt
Kobe
Bird
But once he completes this 3 peat and gets his 6th then we have to reshuffle the deck and he automatically gets to be ranked 2nd behind MJ according to Magic...
MJ
Kobe
Magic
Kareem
Wilt
Bird
In my true honest assessment if Kobe finishes with 8 rings a two full ahead of MJ, numbers aside Kobe is by far greater than MJ but I think that's what it would take in the minds of the MJ lovers and the scary thing is another 3 les is clearly within his reach.
Sad thing is with 4 rings Duncan still doesn't make top 10. Let me round out the top 15 as of today:
MJ
Magic
Kareem
Wilt
Kobe 5th
Bird
Hakeem
Shaq
Malone
Oscar Roberston
Barkley
Pippen
Jerry West
Duncan - 14th
Bill Russell - 15th
How many does Kobe have in comparison to all the others you list?
Jordan
Russell
Wilt
Kareem
Bird
Magic
Shaq
Duncan/Hakeem
Hakeem/Duncan
Kobe
But he kept on winning it as the best player on his team unlike Kobe so what's your point?
But he kept on winning it as the best player on his team unlike Kobe so what's your point?
There's an ESPN article that covers this in greater detail but for now I pulled only the relevant conversation piece. I know this sucks for Spur fan but basically your le is considered a fluke unless you can repeat. Why do you think Boston is so desperate and adding a load of players...they will be a one hit wonder just like the Pistons. I will give the Spurs credit for wining more than one but it's still considered a fluke if you can't repeat. Sorry Timmy but 15 lbs ain't gonna cut the mus
Recent history will always remember the Lakers more fondly than the Spurs, hold Kobe Bryant in a higher regard than Tim Duncan and put Phil Jackson in a different class than Gregg Popovich.
It's not simply because the Lakers play near Hollywood and the Spurs play near the River Walk. It's because the Spurs were never able to repeat as champions. Since the late 1980s the true mark of a legendary team isn't just to win one le or a le every other season; it's to complete the back-to-back or the more elusive three-peat. - ESPN
Repeating les mean nothing in the long run about how great a player was.
I don't really give a damn whether a player was able to win two les back to back or with a year between them.
To call a championship a fluke because you didn't repeat is lol worthy to me.
Should Duncan's 03 le be considered more of a fluke then Hakeem's 94 le because Jordan retired?
Or is Hakeem's le less of a fluke because he repeated?
At the end of the day, Being able to win consistently over the course of a decade means more to me then repeating at only one part of the decade.
I rank Shaq higher then Duncan all time because he was a better player, Not because he repeated.
You can slice this ing sandwich 20 ways if you like..add all kinds of meats and veggies to it as well...add Mayo, Mus , Wasabi, or whatever floats your boat or helps you find your lost remote. Fact still remains
Kobe 5> Duncan 4 and Kobe is still working while Timmy is done...what else you got homie.
That's nice? I never said Kobe couldn't surpass Timmy all time.You can slice this ing sandwich 20 ways if you like..add all kinds of meats and veggies to it as well...add Mayo, Mus , Wasabi, or whatever floats your boat or helps you find your lost remote. Fact still remains
Kobe 5> Duncan 4 and Kobe is still working while Timmy is done...what else you got homie.
In fact I never even implied it. I think he's very capable of it.
It's funny they never tasted it yet I know much more about past champions and championship teams and the players on them then you'll ever know in your lifetime cause I actually research this stuff and watch game tape.
Your knowledge of past champions seems to only consist of a couple of words " They played in a weak era".
Last edited by Years; 09-25-2010 at 06:46 PM.
It's funny they never tasted it yet I know much more about past champions and championship teams and the players on them then you'll ever know in your lifetime cause I actually research this stuff and watch game tape.
nobody told you...we Laker fans are the Uber class...it's your job to research now get to it...
We just sit back and sip the le champagne and roll up a fat smoke....
Caviar style..
Were you making a point?nobody told you...we Laker fans are the Uber class...it's your job to research now get to it...
We just sit back and sip the le champagne and roll up a fat smoke....
Caviar style..
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