Quick Grades: Spurs vs. Mavericks - Nov. 26

[Manufan909]

Oh ! Someone needs to tell Pop that before Duncan, Manu, Parker, Jefferson or Hill get hurt because they're all playing that many minutes. Perhaps Pop should go to that "DNP for two games" strategy that's keeping Splitter's fragile body in one piece.


Saving Splitter from injury. Maybe he'll be fresh for the summer.

I agree with TJastal that this post is pure ownage, but chumperdumper's post does have some merit. I would say Splitter could easily start averaging 20-25 minutes, but he did have an injury in the summer and missed a lot of time at the beginning of the season, plus Pop's incredibly random rotations haven't helped him truly get back his stamina. You're to quick to own people sometimes, man.

And to comment on what senorspur said earlier iirc, I wish Bonner was given minutes entirely based on effectiveness, just like Blair. As well as Tiago, if he was the 2nd best big last night like everyone claimed, he should have gotten Bonner's 2nd half minutes.

[TD 21]

Watching this game, on a positive note, I can't help but watch these two teams play and feel like the pendulum of the rivalry has swung back into the Spurs' favor. At least, it felt that way before and during the game. We'll see if anything changes.

But the matchups are much better now and the confidence/swagger of both teams has changed quite a bit. The Spurs played like they weren't threatened at all and would eventually turn it on, which hasn't been the case in recent years -- the Mavs seemed to have the upper hand from '06 until last postseason.

The Spurs probably feel that way because they clearly have more talent now, which hasn't been the case in the past. If only their genius coach would play the right match-ups, they'd stomp this team regularly.

But instead, it's fun to let a 7-foot guy shoot up over the top of undersized, mediocre defenders, who have no business guarding him. McDyess should have started and he and Splitter should have taken turns defending him. I'd like to see if this overrated clown can throw up a 12-14 game (what 7-footer couldn't, with Blair, Bonner and Jefferson primarily defending him?) against those two.

Why did they even bother signing Splitter if he's not going to spend significant time guarding Nowitzki? I don't want to hear any excuse about "it's still early, he's still getting comfortable". All nonsense (It's clear he has no intentions of pairing Duncan-Splitter together). His length and mobility is theoretically a perfect match-up for Nowitzki. Instead, the coach treats Nowitzki like he's Bosh, Odom or Stoudemire and he's worried about getting killed off the dribble. Incredible. This loss falls on him.

When the Spurs play the Lakers or the Mavs, Blair needs to be stapled to the bench. There isn't a good match-up for him and every minute he plays, is one less minute that McDyess or Splitter plays. Small ball (I'll include Bonner in that...he can't play 20 minutes a game against those teams) isn't going to cut it against teams that have that much size and length. The answer isn't to go small; it's to go big. When will this coach figure this out?

[Obstructed_View]

I agree with TJastal that this post is pure ownage, but chumperdumper's post does have some merit. I would say Splitter could easily start averaging 20-25 minutes, but he did have an injury in the summer and missed a lot of time at the beginning of the season, plus Pop's incredibly random rotations haven't helped him truly get back his stamina. You're to quick to own people sometimes, man.

And to comment on what senorspur said earlier iirc, I wish Bonner was given minutes entirely based on effectiveness, just like Blair. As well as Tiago, if he was the 2nd best big last night like everyone claimed, he should have gotten Bonner's 2nd half minutes.

If Splitter were getting a few minutes every game, I'd be on board with the guys that suggest Pop's bringing him along slowly, and I'd be preaching patience.

Let's not pretend that the current, haphazard subs ution pattern by Pop has anything to do with concerns for Splitter's health. People like to make the case that Splitter is injury prone when it suits them. If he is, they should be questioning Pop about his usage of Splitter, because the sub patterns would be the worst possible thing for an injury prone guy. Furthermore, if Pop were concerned about Splitter's wind, he'd be playing him. You can't watch a player sit for two or three games and then say "well it's no wonder the coach doesn't play him, he looked tired."

Splitter either needs to be rested until he's completely healthy or he needs to get the damn minutes.

[jjktkk]

matt bonner can get four to six three point shots a game without playing 30 minutes or guarding players like dirk for the nearly the entire fourth quarter. People that don't understand this reality need ot pull their head out of their ass.

+1.

[jjktkk]

to understand the limitations and shortcomings of the spurs frontcourt, all one has to do is remember the phoenix series. That was not a one-time abberration, that was an indictment as to the age, physical limimtations, and lack of versatility of that frontcourt unit, as a whole.

Fast forward a few months, and we've seen glimpses of the contributions of tiago splitter, who was supposed to be a helpful antidote to some of those woes. Regardless of why he's being sparingly utlized up to this point, splitter's absence from the regular rotation, means the spurs glaring defensive deficiencies are on full display again. They are again susceptible to giving up points in the paint, second chance rebounds and being vulnerable to the pick and rolls.

Now that duncan is in decline, there just isn't enough collective contributions from the other frontcourt players, on a nightly basis, to offset loss of his brillant, all-star level production.

+1.

[Ice009]

yes, hill played better. but if you need to package him with one or two lesser guys to get a player that can consistently fill a need, you sacrifice him. same with splitter. i'm not a trade guru, I dont know the other teams situations well enough to know who needs what and how the contracts match, nor do I pretend to know the ideal target for the spurs. but if you rate players 1-10, i feel in the frontcourt we have 4 players that are 5s, where I'd rather have 2 6s and 2 4s, or better yet 2 7s and 2 3s. the overall talent level is maybe the same, but I'd rather it be concentrated in the top two rotation players than spread out in this situation where dyess/blair/bonner/splitter are always going to be situational players. considering our two best players cover the 1-2-3 spots, you sacrifice hill if it can get you a better front court player.

The thing with George Hill is he has played some of his best games against Dallas and the Lakers. He raised his game against those teams last season and he did it again in his first game against Dallas. Maybe it's a coincidence that he had his best game of the season against Dallas as he's just rounding into form, but most of the players on the team shrivel up against these teams and give us nothing in the last few years.

90% of the players in the NBA shrivel up against LA so even if you trade Hill for someone better there's no guarantee that guy will show up against our biggest rivals LA and Dallas. George Hill has shown up against those teams 90% of the time.

Guys like Matt Bonner and RJ seem to be the ones that disappear against our biggest rivals when we need them the most. That is the problem.

[TD 21]

No question Bonner has disappeared against the Mavs and the Lakers. Offensively, there is no excuse. Defensively, he simply has no chance at adequately defending Nowitzki, Gasol and Odom.

It never matters to this coach, though, who apparently thinks it's fun to play him plenty against those teams and watch as those players destroy him.

Short of it being a no-brainer type trade, I wouldn't trade Hill. He's a good fit on this team. Blair, on the other hand, isn't. I wouldn't shop Blair per se, but if this team could acquire a better fit up front, I'd be open to trading him.

Blair is a terrible match-up against the Lakers and the Mavs. Unfortunately, they're the best and (probably) the third best teams in the conference. If this team has designs on going far in the playoffs, they'll have to go through at least one of, if not both of them.

This season, it's simple, come the playoffs, he can be the fifth big. What about next season, though, when McDyess is retired? Since this coach refuses to play Duncan and Splitter together, is a PF combination of Blair and Bonner supposed to suffice against the Lakers and the Mavs? Because it has no chance to.

[Obstructed_View]

Blair arguably played better against Dirk than anyone on the Spurs team last night.

[jjktkk]

No question Bonner has disappeared against the Mavs and the Lakers. Offensively, there is no excuse. Defensively, he simply has no chance at adequately defending Nowitzki, Gasol and Odom.

It never matters to this coach, though, who apparently thinks it's fun to play him plenty against those teams and watch as those players destroy him.

Short of it being a no-brainer type trade, I wouldn't trade Hill. He's a good fit on this team. Blair, on the other hand, isn't. I wouldn't shop Blair per se, but if this team could acquire a better fit up front, I'd be open to trading him.

Blair is a terrible match-up against the Lakers and the Mavs. Unfortunately, they're the best and (probably) the third best teams in the conference. If this team has designs on going far in the playoffs, they'll have to go through at least one of, if not both of them.

This season, it's simple, come the playoffs, he can be the fifth big. What about next season, though, when McDyess is retired? Since this coach refuses to play Duncan and Splitter together, is a PF combination of Blair and Bonner supposed to suffice against the Lakers and the Mavs? Because it has no chance to.

Whose to say Pop won't play Splitter and Duncan together eventually? The season just started. But if he doesn't, I would prefer Dyess and Duncan starting.

[jjktkk]

Blair arguably played better against Dirk than anyone on the Spurs team last night.

Last year in the playoffs, McDyess guarded Dirk resonably well. Not so much last night. I wonder if Splitter will get a shot at Dirk this season.

[angelbelow]

Last year in the playoffs, McDyess guarded Dirk resonably well. Not so much last night. I wonder if Splitter will get a shot at Dirk this season.

Theoretically hes going to be our best option. Dice has the combination of strength mobility that our other bigs didn't possess last year and certainly did a great job. Splitter probably isnt has strong but I think hes quicker... in other words, I sure as we get to see Splitter on dirk..

Whose to say Pop won't play Splitter and Duncan together eventually? The season just started. But if he doesn't, I would prefer Dyess and Duncan starting.

The point that hes trying to get at (i think) is a good, you have to experiment during the regular season with match-ups against teams that you will potentially face in the playoffs to see what could work. Giving Tiago or blair a healthy amount of opportunities to guard Dirk can really help our game planning in the future.

[The Truth #6]

The thing with George Hill is he has played some of his best games against Dallas and the Lakers. He raised his game against those teams last season and he did it again in his first game against Dallas. Maybe it's a coincidence that he had his best game of the season against Dallas as he's just rounding into form, but most of the players on the team shrivel up against these teams and give us nothing in the last few years.

90% of the players in the NBA shrivel up against LA so even if you trade Hill for someone better there's no guarantee that guy will show up against our biggest rivals LA and Dallas. George Hill has shown up against those teams 90% of the time.Guys like Matt Bonner and RJ seem to be the ones that disappear against our biggest rivals when we need them the most. That is the problem.

I speculated last night that Hill plays well against Dallas because the rivalry with Dallas, and perhaps playing against Barrera specifically, inspires him to play better. Timvp suggested Hill does better against Dallas because of matchups and how they defend, which helps Hill's game. It's hard to prove my point (something to the effect that Hill's problem is usually psychological/mental and/or lack of motivation) but if Hill does well against LA as well, then Timvp's point (which I roughly paraphrased) is probably right. Playing against LA, ie playing against Fisher, another short slow guard, probably plays to Hill's advantage.

Dallas and LA are definitely more important and better teams, but the matchups and defensive schemes might just favor Hill more.

Hard to say. I'm still trying to figure out why Hill struggles more often than he succeeds.

[Sisk]

On the plus side, his defense remained a bright spot for much of the affair.

[jjktkk]

The point that hes trying to get at (i think) is a good, you have to experiment during the regular season with match-ups against teams that you will potentially face in the playoffs to see what could work. Giving Tiago or blair a healthy amount of opportunities to guard Dirk can really help our game planning in the future.

It is a long season, so I'm sure Pop will continue to expierment with different lineups.

[TD 21]

Whose to say Pop won't play Splitter and Duncan together eventually? The season just started. But if he doesn't, I would prefer Dyess and Duncan starting.

It's clear he has no intentions of doing that, save for maybe a brief stretch or two each game against the Lakers. If that were something that was going to become a fixture later in the season, he'd be playing them together now and letting them get used to one another, so that they can forge some type of chemistry.

He can't play them together sparingly (that's an understatement) all season, then if/when this team runs into the Lakers, think all of a sudden that he can rely on them to play significant minutes together.

At this point, Duncan has probably forgotten what it's like to play next to a guy above 6-9, who can move and help him protect the rim. I don't think it would be a massive undertaking, but there's got to be some type of adjustment there.

[Obstructed_View]

It is a long season, so I'm sure Pop will continue to expierment with different lineups.

If Pop were experimenting with lineups Duncan and Splitter would have gotten a look or there would have been some attempts to run Blair or Bonner at the small forward position. He only experiments with lineups within what he has already decided to do. Pop made a statement before the season started to the effect that Splitter was going to be backing up Duncan. I actually posted up at the time that the good feeling I had about Splitter was beginning to fade.

[Obstructed_View]

Last year in the playoffs, McDyess guarded Dirk resonably well. Not so much last night. I wonder if Splitter will get a shot at Dirk this season.

Yes he did. I was simply replying to the person who declared Blair "a terrible matchup with Dallas and LA" as justification for trading him with no regard for how he played against Dallas less than 24 hours ago.

It's pretty clear that he's not ready to be a starting center for the Spurs, but he's capable of playing defense and he's got virtually no trade value from a monetary standpoint.

[jjktkk]

If Pop were experimenting with lineups Duncan and Splitter would have gotten a look or there would have been some attempts to run Blair or Bonner at the small forward position.

Why would Pop expierment trying Blair, and/or Bonner at the 3 spot? Both Blair and Bonner struggle enough enough as it is guarding quicker athletic 4s, let alone 3s. That would be setting them both up for failure IMO.

He only experiments with lineups within what he has already decided to do. Pop made a statement before the season started to the effect that Splitter was going to be backing up Duncan. I actually posted up at the time that the good feeling I had about Splitter was beginning to fade.

Even if Splitter doesn't start games this season, I fully believe Splitter will be a top reserve before the playoffs start this year, if not sooner, eventually taking minutes from Bonner, and Blair, as well as McDyess.

[TD 21]

Yes he did. I was simply replying to the person who declared Blair "a terrible matchup with Dallas and LA" as justification for trading him with no regard for how he played against Dallas less than 24 hours ago.

It's pretty clear that he's not ready to be a starting center for the Spurs, but he's capable of playing defense and he's got virtually no trade value from a monetary standpoint.

So you think he matches up well with Gasol, Odom or Nowitzki?

I didn't say I'd shop Blair or look to trade him, I said if the Spurs can get a better fit, I'd be okay with them moving him. It's not an indictment of Blair and it's not that I'm down on him or dislike him, though. It's just that the reality of the situation is, he's not a great fit as far as getting past the top teams in the playoffs goes.

[jjktkk]

If Pop were experimenting with lineups Duncan and Splitter would have gotten a look or there would have been some attempts to run Blair or Bonner at the small forward position. He only experiments with lineups within what he has already decided to do. Pop made a statement before the season started to the effect that Splitter was going to be backing up Duncan. I actually posted up at the time that the good feeling I had about Splitter was beginning to fade.

Yes he did. I was simply replying to the person who declared Blair "a terrible matchup with Dallas and LA" as justification for trading him with no regard for how he played against Dallas less than 24 hours ago.

It's pretty clear that he's not ready to be a starting center for the Spurs, but he's capable of playing defense and he's got virtually no trade value from a monetary standpoint.

I agree with you about Blair. Might not be starting material right now, but way too early to give up on him. Blair is a really good basketball player, whose still trying to figure it out.

[Obstructed_View]

So you think he matches up well with Gasol, Odom or Nowitzki?

The reality is, Blair was the best matchup against Dirk last night, so yeah, I'd put him in against any of those guys and see how he can do. The problem isn't how he matches up, it's that he's a defender much of the time. THAT is what needs to be fixed. He's still got a role on this team, and it far outweighs any trade value he might have, unless you have an idea of a player that's so hugely underpaid on a rookie contract that the Spurs could get for him.

I didn't say I'd shop Blair or look to trade him, I said if the Spurs can get a better fit, I'd be okay with them moving him. It's not an indictment of Blair and it's not that I'm down on him or dislike him, though. It's just that the reality of the situation is, he's not a great fit as far as getting past the top teams in the playoffs goes.

That hardly matters, because there are good matchups and Pop refuses to try them. A guy like Blair is going to be a of a lot better than smallball, particularly smallball with Bonner as the center.

[Obstructed_View]

Why would Pop expierment trying Blair, and/or Bonner at the 3 spot? Both Blair and Bonner struggle enough enough as it is guarding quicker athletic 4s, let alone 3s. That would be setting them both up for failure IMO.

Because it could hardly go worse than putting Richard Jefferson in at center or power forward, it could hardly go worse than running smallball for long stretches, and it could hardly go worse than running Bonner out at the four or the five. Bonner can't keep ANYONE in front of him, and he's outmatched no matter who you assign him to defensively, so if you're going to put him out on the court, why not have him matched up against a guy that he has some length on with two shot blockers to guard the paint if and when the guy decides to go past him? With all due respect, I'd rather see it on the court than just accept your opinion. Spurs fans have been fed this that there's something to fear about having size on the court. Big teams win championships.

Even if Splitter doesn't start games this season, I fully believe Splitter will be a top reserve before the playoffs start this year, if not sooner, eventually taking minutes from Bonner, and Blair, as well as McDyess.

I fully believed Pop would see how bad the 2006 team was getting shredded without Rasho and Nazr. I fully believed Pop would see that the Spurs needed Bowen and Hill against the Mavericks before it was too late. I fully believed Ian Mahinmi was going to start getting minutes when he tore up the Nets the way he did. I was wrong every single time. I have very little faith in Pop's common sense when it comes to common sense basketball decisions. I'll be REALLY happy if it turns out the way you say, though.

[TD 21]

The reality is, Blair was the best matchup against Dirk last night, so yeah, I'd put him in against any of those guys and see how he can do. The problem isn't how he matches up, it's that he's a defender much of the time. THAT is what needs to be fixed. He's still got a role on this team, and it far outweighs any trade value he might have, unless you have an idea of a player that's so hugely underpaid on a rookie contract that the Spurs could get for him.



That hardly matters, because there are good matchups and Pop refuses to try them. A guy like Blair is going to be a of a lot better than smallball, particularly smallball with Bonner as the center.

You're going to base Blair's ability to guard Nowitzki off of 13 minutes of playing time? They didn't even go to Nowitzki that much, particularly early. If they did, he probably would have scored over Blair at will. Blair should never guard Gasol or Nowitzki.

The problem is how he matches up. Even if he were to play good defense, he has no chance to adequately guard either. The first possession yesterday was a perfect example. They ran Nowitzki off a down screen and got him a free throw line jumper. Blair defended it well, yet he still hit it with ease, because Blair can't bother his shot.

He doesn't guard mobile bigs all that well, but what's worse, is his lack of height. People can talk about his length all they want, it makes no difference with 7-footers, because they can still easily shoot up over the top of him.

I got no ideas. Just saying if there were a deal out there like the one I described, then I'd be okay with them moving him.

Getting past top teams in the playoffs hardly matters? Isn't that what it's all about? Against teams like the Lakers and Mavs, Blair is small ball.

[Cessation]

I agree. Whats the point of starting blair, even if he plays good during regular season, still get owned in the playoffs vs bigger and more skilled pfs of lakers and mavs.

Splitter should be starting, if he gets good, at least we have a real chance to challenge the other contenders.

Blair is perfect of the bench vs the 2nd string bigs of other teams, we know that already, its what he did all last year as a rookie, be even better this year.

[Obstructed_View]

You're going to base Blair's ability to guard Nowitzki off of 13 minutes of playing time? They didn't even go to Nowitzki that much, particularly early. If they did, he probably would have scored over Blair at will. Blair should never guard Gasol or Nowitzki.

The problem is how he matches up. Even if he were to play good defense, he has no chance to adequately guard either. The first possession yesterday was a perfect example. They ran Nowitzki off a down screen and got him a free throw line jumper. Blair defended it well, yet he still hit it with ease, because Blair can't bother his shot.

He doesn't guard mobile bigs all that well, but what's worse, is his lack of height. People can talk about his length all they want, it makes no difference with 7-footers, because they can still easily shoot up over the top of him.

I got no ideas. Just saying if there were a deal out there like the one I described, then I'd be okay with them moving him.

Getting past top teams in the playoffs hardly matters? Isn't that what it's all about? Against teams like the Lakers and Mavs, Blair is small ball.

I'd certainly rather base Blair's ability to match up against Nowitzki by the game they just played rather than your estimation that he doesn't match up well because he's too small. 13 minutes of reality beats the out of the baseless opinion of someone on a Spurs message board, thanks.

And no. Let's be clear: Three guards and no center is smallball. The reason Blair isn't a good compliment to Duncan isn't because he's too short, it's because he's a ty defender a lot of the time, and THAT is what should cost him his starting job. It doesn't mean he's not capable of being a good defender, and if he puts it together I have no problem throwing him in against just about anyone.

If being unable to block Dirk Nowitzki's jumpshot is what makes a guy too short, then Bruce Bowen is the tallest mother er that ever played in the NBA.