Knicks @ Heat Game Thread

[TampaDude]

These next 10 games will make or break Miami..

Friday night's game in San Antonio will tell us a lot about both the Heat and the Spurs, methinks.

[midnightpulp]

[Killakobe81]

Not bent out of shape.

But I do hate the way the media and fans exaggerate the concepts of "clutch," and "when it matters," which refers to the last moments of a game. Of course those moments are going to be more remembered and sensationalized, but they do not matter more than the first moments of a game.

you are right in theory ...but it's normal for folks to admire those that come up big in all sports ...Jeter, big ben, Brady are examples of folks media applaud for being clutch.

[Flo-Rida]

Melo,amare and billups looked like theve played with each other longer than bosh wade and lebron .

[Flo-Rida]

These next 10 games will make or break Miami..

Orlando
@ San Antonio(b2b)
Chicago
Portland
Lakers
Memphis
San Antonio
OKC
@ Atlanta
Denver(b2b)

They won't be able to stat-pad against ty teams like they have been doing all season..they will have to actually play organized basketball and play with motivation..

Spoelstra's job for next season is probably on the line here..

Agreed .. damn i mean at least have something the players can buy into like when riley did the 15 strong

[Killakobe81]

These next 10 games will make or break Miami..

Orlando
@ San Antonio(b2b)
Chicago
Portland
Lakers
Memphis
San Antonio
OKC
@ Atlanta
Denver(b2b)

They won't be able to stat-pad against ty teams like they have been doing all season..they will have to actually play organized basketball and play with motivation..

Spoelstra's job for next season is probably on the line here..

they'll beat Portland, Lakers SAat home they may even sweep Spurs ...Spurs playing uptempo perfect for heat ...

[Capt Bringdown]

Friday night's game in San Antonio will tell us a lot about both the Heat and the Spurs, methinks.

Parker will probably be out for this game? What a pity.

[Killakobe81]

Is he OK?

[TampaDude]

Parker will probably be out for this game? What a pity.

You know for a fact TP isn't playing against the Heat on Friday?

[Killakobe81]

I sparker's injury serious?

[lefty]

These next 10 games will make or break Miami..

Orlando
@ San Antonio(b2b)
Chicago
Portland
Lakers
Memphis
San Antonio
OKC
@ Atlanta
Denver(b2b)

They won't be able to stat-pad against ty teams like they have been doing all season..they will have to actually play organized basketball and play with motivation..

Spoelstra's job for next season is probably on the line here..

Damn

Tough schedule

[midnightpulp]

you are right in theory ...but it's normal for folks to admire those that come up big in all sports ...Jeter, big ben, Brady are examples of folks media applaud for being clutch.

But I see no difference in "clutchness" between a player who comes up big in the 1st quarter and one who comes up big in the 4th. People place more value on the 4th because that's when the game is drawing to a close, so every moment will be naturally be filled with tension, but it's a false perception.

A big lead after the 1st quarter is often enough to lead a team to winning the game.

[cobbler]

Not bent out of shape.

But I do hate the way the media and fans exaggerate the concepts of "clutch," and "when it matters," which refers to the last moments of a game. Of course those moments are going to be more remembered and sensationalized, but they do not matter more than the first moments of a game.

Completely disagree. Game is 0-0 and you hit the two. Your down one and hit the shot at the buzzer for the 100-99 win. While they most certainly count for the same 2 points, neither the opposition or your own team has the chance to recover in the latter scenario therfore making the shot "matter" much more.

[Killakobe81]

But I see no difference in "clutchness" between a player who comes up big in the 1st quarter and one who comes up big in the 4th. People place more value on the 4th because that's when the game is drawing to a close, so every moment will be naturally be filled with tension, but it's a false perception.

A big lead after the 1st quarter is often enough to lead a team to winning the game.

Dont disagree good points ...but then why did you post his 4th quarter stats ...LOL

[Booharv]

Not bent out of shape.

But I do hate the way the media and fans exaggerate the concepts of "clutch," and "when it matters," which refers to the last moments of a game. Of course those moments are going to be more remembered and sensationalized, but they do not matter more than the first moments of a game.

Couldn't agree more. A lot of laker fans do this when they take digs at Shaq for needing a go to scorer in the closing minutes of games because of his free throw shooting deficiencies. Of course if Shaq hadn't dominated the first 46 minutes of the game the Lakers never would have made it out of the first round during their threepeat.

[midnightpulp]

Completely disagree. Game is 0-0 and you hit the two. Your down one and hit the shot at the buzzer for the 100-99 win. While they most certainly count for the same 2 points, neither the opposition or your own team has the chance to recover in the latter scenario therfore making the shot "matter" much more.

Yeah, but if that player hit a shot earlier in the game, that "clutch" scenario never has the opportunity to exist.

In hindsight, that missed shot "mattered" just as much as the game winning shot.

[Capt Bringdown]

You know for a fact TP isn't playing against the Heat on Friday?

No, I don't. That's why I used a question mark. What are you on about?

[Killakobe81]

true but the pressure (though mental), fatigue and the outcome does creat "clutch moments" it's not manufactured ...it's real. Maybe overly hyped but it does exist any true compe or will tell you that.

[Killakobe81]

Couldn't agree more. A lot of laker fans do this when they take digs at Shaq for needing a go to scorer in the closing minutes of games because of his free throw shooting deficiencies. Of course if Shaq hadn't dominated the first 46 minutes of the game the Lakers never would have made it out of the first round during their threepeat.

Of course Shaq was dominant who says he wasn't? But those lats 2 mins seperates him from MJ, Kobe, duncan, Bird. not only did he suck at FT's but he did not have a clutch go to move late like the sky hook. or tim's banker ...

[GuerillaBlack]

But I see no difference in "clutchness" between a player who comes up big in the 1st quarter and one who comes up big in the 4th. People place more value on the 4th because that's when the game is drawing to a close, so every moment will be naturally be filled with tension, but it's a false perception.

A big lead after the 1st quarter is often enough to lead a team to winning the game.

To an extent. What a player does in the first quarter doesn't matter when the game is on the line, with a minute left in the fourth. How many times have we seen clutch players, in all sports, suck at the beginning of games, but turn it on when the game is on the line and deliver? No one remembers the first quarter during a close game late in the fourth.

[lefty]

true but the pressure (though mental), fatigue and the outcome does creat "clutch moments" it's not manufactured ...it's real. Maybe overly hyped but it does exist any true compe or will tell you that.

True

All the factors you mention lead to a more focused state

[midnightpulp]

To an extent. What a player does in the first quarter doesn't matter when the game is on the line, with a minute left in the fourth. How many times have we seen clutch players, in all sports, suck at the beginning of games, but turn it on when the game is on the line and deliver? No one remembers the first quarter during a close game late in the fourth.

In a basketball game, no one moment is isolated from the next. For your premise to work, the preceding events can't influence the succeeding events in a game. And we know that's not the case. Every event in a game influences the next one until the conclusion. The player "sucking" at the beginning of the game is the reason there's a "clutch" situation at the end of the game. If he plays well at the beginning, the team avoids the chance of losing the game at the end.

Now if you're talking about a player who his good during the regular season, but great in the playoffs, then that is indeed a "clutch" player, since the regular and post-season are isolated from each other.

[Killakobe81]

LOL this forum ...
Luva's post sounded like "I'm that type of guy" by LL cool J ...off his 3rd albulm IIRC ...

Your the type of guy "trying to call me a punk ... while your main girl is biting my chunk"

LOL

[midnightpulp]

This statement proves to the universe without a shadow of a doubt that you rarely, if ever get laid. Anyone can meet a woman, but can you peel those panties off during crunch time? You see, me, I'm a fourth quarter player. I'm batting like .987 when it comes to closing deals... I'm a Closer. You're the type of guy that goes out and you can meet a chic, mainly because you probably break yourself buying strange chics drinks, but you never get to sniff those panties, and it's solely due to your false logic.

PM me lil homie, and If I don't get you laid by the weekend, I'll give you one of my lil doo-dollies... free of charge.

False analogy.

[Killakobe81]

In a basketball game, no one moment is isolated from the next. For your premise to work, the preceding events can't influence the succeeding events in a game. And we know that's not the case. Every event in a game influences the next one until the conclusion. The player "sucking" at the beginning of the game is the reason there's a "clutch" situation at the end of the game. If he plays well at the beginning, the team avoids the chance of losing the game at the end.

Now if you're talking about a player who his good during the regular season, but great in the playoffs, then that is indeed a "clutch" player, since the regular and post-season are isolated from each other.

In theory all of this makes sense. Problem is when you suck in the 1st quarter you have 3 other quarters to make up for it. Yes of course if you play well you can end a game in the first ...but as the heat found out ...as good as they played in the first quarter the 4th mattered so much more. Because when they struggled in those last few mins. there is no time to make that up.

If end of games didnt matter in sports so much why do coaches manage the clock. Why do teams work plays to get the ball to their "clutch" players. hitting tough shots beating a double team are all factors that matter in clutch play. Shaq is great Rondo too to a less degree and i love their play for 42 minutes but I dont trust eiither with under 6 mins to go ...and that is a stain on their resume ..period. Kobe quit against phoenix, Mj gambled and punched kerr, Neal raped (sorry couldnt resist), pip sat out on the Kukoc game winner. Great players have flaws no one is perfect.

Pointing out shaq not being clutch or Kobe's poor shot selection does not mean that they are not great. But if you tell the WHOLE story it matters ...