Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 51 to 75 of 82
  1. #51
    right about pizzagate Blake's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Post Count
    83,660
    Salaried employees are paid based on a number of factors... experience, education, skill, revenue generated, level within the company, etc.

    Number of hours worked during the week/year is typically not very high on the list.
    name an occupation you are referring to as a well as a position that is not CEO or something similar.

  2. #52
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Post Count
    51,121
    WSJ, just another VRWC (Murdoch branch) propaganda mouthpiece, starts with a lie:

    "That's how many cents the public pays Milwaukee public-school teachers and other employees for retirement and health benefits for every dollar they receive in salary. "

    really?

    "There has been a lot of media coverage about the funding of pension systems across the nation. Is the WRS [Wisconsin Retirement System] fully funded and able to pay benefits? Yes, the WRS is fully funded and able to pay benefits to current and future WRS members."

    In fact, Wisconsin is a national model for its fully funded pension system, which segregates the funds so they can't be raided as has happened in private sector firms and other states.

    http://www.alternet.org/module/printversion/150068

    ===========

    The real crisis for all retirees is not their pension, but getting raped by sick-care costs. That's a crisis for all Americans. Of course, WSJ would never touch the greedy, corrupt, fraudulent docs, hospitals, for-profit insurance companies.
    Interesting. So basically the figure is so much higher than the average, because they are actually setting aside as much money as they are supposed to be.

    As I have noted from what I have read about pension funds nationally, both private and government, are under-reserved.

    So essentially, the reason that Wisconsin actually pays so much more into the fund is that they are being fiscally prudent, and not shoving the payments off until later, when they will need to be much bigger.

    Even more telling:

    Blogger Kristen Emery points to what she calls a "pension theft provision" in Walker's bill:

    On page three of the bill, "third paragraph from the top, there is very interesting language that leads to the very important question for Governor Walker. The paragraph mandates that a study of the existing Wisconsin Retirement System be performed and it must “specifically address establishing a defined contribution plan as an option for WRS participating employees” and the deadline for completing this study is June 30, 2012. I don’t think that Walker would be adding retirement benefits for workers - so I am wondering if the Republican Governors that are trying to get rid of collective bargaining of retirement benefits, so that they can terminate the existing plans and recover excess assets for their state balance sheets.

    "If Governor Walker’s bill passes, and collective bargaining of retirement benefits is eliminated, then next year when Governor Walker decides it is in Wisconsin’s best interests to get rid of the existing plan and replace it with something less valuable for the employees. And the employees would have no say and no one can keep Walker from raiding your retirement savings."

    Over beers at Donnelly's retirement party, Phillips agrees: "ETF has $78 billion in retirement funds--it has got to have occurred to someone in the Governor's office to use those funds," says.
    It is a well-worn budget gimmick for governors to monkey with pension funds to balance budgets and create gimmies. Either taking money directly, as appears to be the case here, or changing some of the assumptions to make it appear as if the liability is smaller (reducing funding requirements, and freeing up cash for other pet projects)

  3. #53
    Still Hates Small Ball Spurminator's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Post Count
    37,751
    name an occupation you are referring to as a well as a position that is not CEO or something similar.
    Have you really never worked in a place, or known anyone who has worked in a place, where lower level (thus lower paid) employees typically stay in the office for much longer hours than their bosses and company executives?

    If you really need an example of a workplace like this, how about an ad agency?

    I don't want to derail the thread. All I was saying is that it's a curious standard to suggest that teachers are overpaid because of the number of hours they work.

  4. #54
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Post Count
    51,121
    Our society loves to give lip service to how great teachers are but hates to pay them.
    If there is one segment of government that should pay better than average, it is teaching.

  5. #55
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Post Count
    42,561
    Our society loves to give lip service to how great teachers are but hates to pay them.

    I'm all for paying the really good teachers even more. Problem is, the union hates merit-based pay.

  6. #56
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Post Count
    42,561
    Come to think of it, unions don't really foster individual excellence.

  7. #57
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Post Count
    42,561
    A ty teacher with "tenure" will make more than a great teacher with only a few years of experience. Sad.

  8. #58
    right about pizzagate Blake's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Post Count
    83,660
    Have you really never worked in a place, or known anyone who has worked in a place, where lower level (thus lower paid) employees typically stay in the office for much longer hours than their bosses and company executives?

    If you really need an example of a workplace like this, how about an ad agency?

    I don't want to derail the thread. All I was saying is that it's a curious standard to suggest that teachers are overpaid because of the number of hours they work.
    sorry, I must have missed somewhere and apparently I don't know who you original post was directed at......

    who suggested that teachers are overpaid because of the number of hours they work?

  9. #59
    right about pizzagate Blake's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Post Count
    83,660
    A ty teacher with "tenure" will make more than a great teacher with only a few years of experience. Sad.
    not much more.

    it's the starting salary that's pretty good.

  10. #60
    Still Hates Small Ball Spurminator's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Post Count
    37,751
    sorry, I must have missed somewhere and apparently I don't know who you original post was directed at......

    who suggested that teachers are overpaid because of the number of hours they work?
    Post 30.

  11. #61
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Post Count
    42,561
    not much more.

    the biggest lure in teaching would be the starting salary.

    And pension + benefits.

  12. #62
    right about pizzagate Blake's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Post Count
    83,660
    Then they would demand even more.

    Realistically, they probably work 10/12 months. That average I think is low, probably includes part time positions. When I look at the Centennial district for Oregon, the 10th percentile for preschool teachers is at $25,510, probably part-time. The 90 percentile for High school teachers is $72,620. These are 2009 numbers.
    what do you mean by "90 percentile"?

  13. #63
    right about pizzagate Blake's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Post Count
    83,660
    And pension + benefits.
    and the love of educating kids and on and on.

    I changed my post.

    Point being 0 years is not much different than 10 years.

  14. #64
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Post Count
    57,943
    I'm all for paying the really good teachers even more. Problem is, the union hates merit-based pay.
    So the union gets everything it wants? I'm all for something like merit pay and I'm in no way a fan of the teachers unions but there's 2 bodies at the negotiating table.

  15. #65
    Scrumtrulescent
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Post Count
    9,724
    I could not disagree more with your first statement. There is accountability in both sectors and they need not be the same devices to have the same effect.
    That is simply not true. There's very, very little risk in public sector negotiations. Both sides are negotiating using a 3rd party's money, there's no pressure to be profitable or efficient, there's little to no consequences for either party when a bad deal gets made. Neither side is faced with the possibility of losing everything. Accountability is a function of risk and public sector risk doesn't come anywhere close to private sector risk.

    The fact remains that public sector employees total compensation is perfectly in line with private sector employees. There have been studies that testify to this.
    The taxpayers don't really give a . All they see are prospects of paying higher taxes for lesser services and a bunch of money being spent on benefits for public sector retirees who don't work for them anymore.

    The idea that the public sector unions are fleecing us all is just a flat out lie.
    You're using the fleecing word, not me. I'm not saying anyone is fleecing anyone. I'm just saying how collective bargaining in a public sector setting is a fundamentally flawed application of the CBA concept. The unbalanced budgets, unfunded obligations and declining levels of service we're seeing nationwide provide ample evidence of this.

    What analysis I've seen comparing the two sectors has been far from compelling IMO. I'm not sure CG is making a point concerning fleecing....it's more along the lines of the relationship of the parties to the taxpayer in both populations.
    Exactly.

    The analysis I've seen shows more compensation through deffered methods such as pension in exchange to lower up front costs.
    It's the credit card approach. Eventually it catches up to you, and we're there.

    I think CG is making a point about fleecing, however. If there is no fleecing going on then I fail to see how there are flaws in the relationship that are being exploited.
    See above, not talking about fleecing. It's simply a flawed system.

    The going rate. Playing golf is serious effing business.
    Damn skippy!

  16. #66
    Motivation for me... Stringer_Bell's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Post Count
    4,270
    Perhaps a stupid question, and maybe its been covered but I can't seem to find it...Are teachers better taken care of the our military? I wonder since they're both integral to the security of our country, albiet in different ways.

  17. #67
    Scrumtrulescent
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Post Count
    9,724
    If there is one segment of government that should pay better than average, it is teaching.
    I don't have a problem paying teachers better than average. Just do it by paying them a better than average salary TODAY. Don't tie up damn near half of their compensation in pension and long term health benefits that don't get paid out until decades later.

  18. #68
    The D.R.A. Drachen's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Post Count
    11,214
    I have a question, I have heard or read about a week or week and a half ago (but maybe have misunderstood or something) that the unions have agreed to all of the cuts proposed by the Gov. Is this true? If so, doesn't it kinda prove that the CBA works?

    P.S. I know, if I provide no link it didn't happen, I am searching. In the meantime, I wanted to know if someone else heard this.

  19. #69
    Believe. Vici's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Post Count
    542
    Perhaps a stupid question, and maybe its been covered but I can't seem to find it...Are teachers better taken care of the our military? I wonder since they're both integral to the security of our country, albiet in different ways.
    http://www.todaysmilitary.com/benefi...e=no&x=41&y=11

    New officer's make out like bandits compared to teachers (who have equal degrees). A better comparison would be with enlisted. 21.5 k is starting salary on the lower end so take that with full medical and dental the teacher still squeeks out ahead. This is assuming that the teacher has medical insurance and is paying off student loans.

  20. #70
    Believe. Vici's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Post Count
    542
    Just redid the options and if you're married and enlisted, you do much better starting than a teacher does. It's not even close.

  21. #71
    Motivation for me... Stringer_Bell's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Post Count
    4,270
    http://www.todaysmilitary.com/benefi...e=no&x=41&y=11

    New officer's make out like bandits compared to teachers (who have equal degrees). A better comparison would be with enlisted. 21.5 k is starting salary on the lower end so take that with full medical and dental the teacher still squeeks out ahead. This is assuming that the teacher has medical insurance and is paying off student loans.
    Thanks for the info!

  22. #72
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Post Count
    42,561
    I would assume teaching is a tad bit less risky than, say, being deployed to Afghanistan. Well, unless you're a teacher in Detroit.

  23. #73
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Post Count
    154,417
    So Darrin is also against such bargaining rights and benefits for police and firefighters as well.

  24. #74
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Post Count
    32,408
    I would assume teaching is a tad bit less risky than, say, being deployed to Afghanistan. Well, unless you're a teacher in Detroit.


    Talk to a teacher.....most would rather be in Afghanistan....

  25. #75
    I play pretty, no? TeyshaBlue's Avatar
    My Team
    Dallas Mavericks
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Post Count
    13,321


    Talk to a teacher.....most would rather be in Afghanistan....
    You can reason with some Afghanis.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •