Maybe I'm Too Easy

[ChumpDumper]

I get the Scola/Butler - luxury tax avoidance, but in terms of the money lost from the team not advancing further in the playoffs (I understand you can't pin that on a player or a couple of players), it probably didn't save them money in the long run. Would Scola have helped in '08, '09, '10 and '11 - I believe so. He signed for 9.5 mil/3 year deal in '07 a year after the Spurs signed Butler to a 7 mil/3 year deal - that's just terrrible.

So?

"Probably didn't save them money in the long run" is pure speculation. They saved money. They made money. Luxury tax savings and proceeds are real.

While the RJ contract saved them in 2011, his overall contract will be a hard one to unload and in doing so, it's possible they lose the money that they saved. Ticket sales are also imporant to a budget and losing in the playoffs doesn't help and players that don't play well won't sell tickets either.

"It's possible."

It's definite they did already save money.

Manu sells the tickets no matter how well he plays (or doesn't play). That's just how things go sometimes.

[Calispursfan11]

Maybe I don't have high enough aspirations for my team. Maybe I should be cursing at Pop and demanding his head on a platter. Perhaps I should disown the team and claim free agency to the last team standing. I don't know.

I do know that I am very happy about the Spurs season this year. I wasn't disappointed at the loss to Memphis because of the cir stances. We raced an older, less expensive car and got into the money. I didn't expect us to do this well after how we finished last year. , I was even glad we got out of the 1st round last year. I don't expect my team to win every year because I know they do not have the pieces to win and don't have the buying power to get them. Sure we could wholesale anyone I care about on the team for some rogue mercenaries to on the Spurs image and still lose, but I prefer how we are doing it now. I like it that Timmy stuck around and will likely retire a Spur. I like it that his 21 will grace our rafters. I like it that the young guns got to play alongside him for a few years to learn what humility in the face of defeat means, and how to win without popping jerseys and acting a fool.

Maybe it's just me though. I am older and realize time keeps moving along. I like the moderate pace of the Spurs franchise, hammering the rock, not hiring contractors to come haul it away.

Great at ude. You are a tried and true Spurs enthusiast and it shows. I am not thrilled about their downward spiral heading into their short playoffs, but I am always a fan of the team and what they have stood for (among them professionalism and maturity) ever sinc D Rob. It hurt immensely to watch the Spurs get bounced after such a great season, but I love this team and will be a fan even as they will surely head into the depths of the lottery in the next few years.

[jjktkk]

Some of you guys are ing re ed.
'
The FO did screw up massively on Scola. They also screwed up by resigning RJ. However, since acquiring Duncan, the FO has done a decent job at putting pieces that fit around Tim that excel in specific areas. Getting Manu, Parker, Bruce, Horry, Barry, Nazr, six players who all contributed meaningfully to an NBA le. In 2008, they tried to trade for Kurt Thomas and they even got Barry back. , they tried to trade for J.R. Smith a couple seasons prior to that and they took a chance and traded for RJ in 2009 who most people that would fit in decently as he wouldn't be relied on to score.

They've made some blunders, but to say they haven't been fairly successful and have failed at/trying to put pieces around Tim, is flat out stupid. It's very difficult to win an NBA le. Some of you think just because we had Tim that he should've had more les and Pop ed it up somehow, when in reality, Pop's system + players around Duncan + Duncan's prime skill = championships, and you need all components. There's a reason players like Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, and Ray Allen never won a ring until they teamed up. And while Piece and Allen are way below Duncan's level, Garnett is only a tier below mostly due to a lack of hardware.

As far as the Scola fiasco, was that a directive by ownership that they are not gonna spend $$$$ on Scola?

[jjktkk]

+1

FO dropped the ball big time, there is no doubt about that.

Speaking of "dropping the ball" whenever they decide to post, but on to other things. Why is it that 99% percent of all NBA GMs, NBA owners, the media, and knowledgable NBA fans, consider the Spur's FO one of, if not the best in the league, but a very small minority, namely you, get up on their tiny ST soap box and go above and beyond to rant and rave about how horrible a coach and GM Pop is? Have you ever seriously tried taking off your Pop hate glasses and put down your Pop voodoo doll down for a second and look across the league at former coaches and gms who got their start under Pop. How can I take you seriously when, for most of the season, you were staying away from ST when the Spurs were rolling along with the best record in the league, but come out of hibernation to spew about Pop's inadequacies after their ouster in the playoffs? Why wern't you throwing out the Pop's an idiot chants in December or January?

[ALVAREZ6]

No one could've foretold that Manu would forget how to go around a Duncan screen in the last game of the season.

It wasn't just the last game, he was just lucky it too so long for it to happen. He's been going around screens like that forever, trailing his arm behind all recklessly pretending it's a tail, helping him highlight and act out the contact from the trailing defender.

It is ing annoying and he had that coming to him. Unfortunately his health was one of many problems in that series and that pussy ass team was going nowhere, along with its head coach Greggory "It Wouldn't Be Fair to the Team" Popovich.

[TJastal]

Speaking of "dropping the ball" whenever they decide to post, but on to other things. Why is it that 99% percent of all NBA GMs, NBA owners, the media, and knowledgable NBA fans, consider the Spur's FO one of, if not the best in the league, but a very small minority, namely you, get up on their tiny ST soap box and go above and beyond to rant and rave about how horrible a coach and GM Pop is? Have you ever seriously tried taking off your Pop hate glasses and put down your Pop voodoo doll down for a second and look across the league at former coaches and gms who got their start under Pop. How can I take you seriously when, for most of the season, you were staying away from ST when the Spurs were rolling along with the best record in the league, but come out of hibernation to spew about Pop's inadequacies after their ouster in the playoffs? Why wern't you throwing out the Pop's an idiot chants in December or January?

[DMC]

I think everyone can appreciate the difficulty in operating an NBA franchise within a budget and putting a successful product on the floor year after year. The difficulty seems to be in player development. Maybe there can only be so much energy and resource and just pure luck devoted to development, but the Spurs FO probably has a few regrets as well.

I think plenty people didn't become Spurs fans before the Spurs won their first ring. That means that, for most of their time as a fan, the Spurs have been contenders. If you take the fan base that's been around for 30 years or so, they might see it a bit differently. They might realize that there are a ton of non-successful recipes and only a few successful ones because they have been part of the "try but fail" group for a long time before ever winning a ring.

[DMC]

wait a second - I'm not playing and I'm not on the team? Crap, I thought I was and now I'm just upset.

I was only addressing your statement about not being raised to be a quitter. How are fans quitters by acknowledging and appreciating what their team has done?

Ok, mighty Spur fan from the 80's - let me explain how Duncan was cheated. Duncan was cheated after he helped the Spurs win 4 rings and took less money to help win an addtional champion ship or two, but FO failed to acquire the right pieces to help Tim get at least one more. It wasn't just because he was a nice guy - he wanted to help the organization spend the money to get the right personnel and they failed him.

That's not true. The FO didn't make Manu foul Dirk in that playoff game. They didn't make Fish hit the .4 second shot. The Spurs can only build a compe ive team. They cannot build a championship team. Championships are won, not made. The Spurs had a shot at a couple more rings. All they had to do was perform.

And yes, when you concede the run is over you have given up and that makes you a quitter. And don't give me this realist crap because the reality is that the FO has underachieved since 2007, but some of you won't admit it.

You can wallow in your false fan bravado all you like. You are still just a fan and a fan is a fan for a reason. I gave mine in the OP.

[DMC]

I think he read you pretty well. You disappeared for the entire season and returned after they lost in the playoffs. If that's not telling enough to discount anything you say as tripe, your response to him was.

[ohmwrecker]

I think plenty people didn't become Spurs fans before the Spurs won their first ring. That means that, for most of their time as a fan, the Spurs have been contenders. If you take the fan base that's been around for 30 years or so, they might see it a bit differently. They might realize that there are a ton of non-successful recipes and only a few successful ones because they have been part of the "try but fail" group for a long time before ever winning a ring.

I'm one of those who have the perspective of being grateful for the success informed by the experience of disappointment, but I also understand the feeling of thinking that some obvious mistakes have been made that could have made the difference in some of those seasons where they fell just short.
You can never be satisfied as an extremist. You have to be able to accept the delicate balance of the moderate reality if you are going to be a fan of a fiscally conservative, small market team. The only thing keeping this team in San Antonio is that balance. Which means, you probably won't win every year, but you will do well enough to still have a team the following year.

[Caeman]

I'm one of those who have the perspective of being grateful for the success informed by the experience of disappointment, but I also understand the feeling of thinking that some obvious mistakes have been made that could have made the difference in some of those seasons where they fell just short.
You can never be satisfied as an extremist. You have to be able to accept the delicate balance of the moderate reality if you are going to be a fan of a fiscally conservative, small market team. The only thing keeping this team in San Antonio is that balance. Which means, you probably won't win every year, but you will do well enough to still have a team the following year.

What disappointment? You an NBA fan. You jump on the next horse still in the race. Don't believe me? Check out your 'Memphis Train' thread. You were the first to jump on.

I'll ask again. What disappointment?

[Caeman]

More to the point of the thread. It's time to stop "being easy" on the Spurs and FO. It's been 4 years since we've won a championship. I am not disappointed that we haven't won in 4 years. I am disappointed with how we have lost.

Pop progressively becoming more senile. Bonner getting big minutes. Defense going right out the ing window. And the big 3 playing softer each year due to age.

It's time to stop being easy and start holding people responsible for the ed up decisions in the recent past.

[DMC]

I'm one of those who have the perspective of being grateful for the success informed by the experience of disappointment, but I also understand the feeling of thinking that some obvious mistakes have been made that could have made the difference in some of those seasons where they fell just short.
You can never be satisfied as an extremist. You have to be able to accept the delicate balance of the moderate reality if you are going to be a fan of a fiscally conservative, small market team. The only thing keeping this team in San Antonio is that balance. Which means, you probably won't win every year, but you will do well enough to still have a team the following year.

This is what I live by.

[DMC]

More to the point of the thread. It's time to stop "being easy" on the Spurs and FO. It's been 4 years since we've won a championship. I am not disappointed that we haven't won in 4 years. I am disappointed with how we have lost.

4 years. Wow what a drought. It's been that long for everyone except LA and Boston. Much much longer for most others.

Pop progressively becoming more senile. Bonner getting big minutes. Defense going right out the ing window. And the big 3 playing softer each year due to age.

I have not seen anything from Pop to indicate he's senile. We weren't sitting in the 2 week meeting the staff had last summer. We are left to guess after tipoff.

It's time to stop being easy and start holding people responsible for the ed up decisions in the recent past.

Stop being a fan. That's the only way to vote, with your dollar.

[underdawg]

I was only addressing your statement about not being raised to be a quitter. How are fans quitters by acknowledging and appreciating what their team has done?
That's not true. The FO didn't make Manu foul Dirk in that playoff game. They didn't make Fish hit the .4 second shot. The Spurs can only build a compe ive team. They cannot build a championship team. Championships are won, not made. The Spurs had a shot at a couple more rings. All they had to do was perform.
You can wallow in your false fan bravado all you like. You are still just a fan and a fan is a fan for a reason. I gave mine in the OP.

you're not a quitter for appreciating the team - every fan appreciates the team, so stop acting like you're unique in that. You're a quitter for just accepting that the Spurs are done - it really is that easy to explain.

By the way, Duncan signed his extension and took less money than he was due after the Manu foul on Dirk and .4 - the FO failed to live up to their end of the bargain and acquire quality players with the money they saved on Duncan's contract.

False fan bravado - really?

[DMC]

What disappointment? You an NBA fan. You jump on the next horse still in the race. Don't believe me? Check out your 'Memphis Train' thread. You were the first to jump on.

I'll ask again. What disappointment?

I admitted openly that I am not disappointed.

Don't try to discount someone's loyalty to a team because they are still watching the game after that team lost. Even Pop said he's going to watch the games. Is he not loyal?

Seriously, weak ass argument.

Here, see if this helps you:

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169863

[Caeman]

4 years. Wow what a drought. It's been that long for everyone except LA and Boston. Much much longer for most others.

I have not seen anything from Pop to indicate he's senile. We weren't sitting in the 2 week meeting the staff had last summer. We are left to guess after tipoff.

Stop being a fan. That's the only way to vote, with your dollar.

You moron.

Did you not read my post? I said I wasn't disappointed that the Spurs lost. I'm disappointed in the way they have lost.

Learn to read you idiot and maybe you'll see that I'm disappointed for the right reasons. You're a loser who lives in the past. Time to move got!

[DMC]

you're not a quitter for appreciating the team - every fan appreciates the team, so stop acting like you're unique in that. You're a quitter for just accepting that the Spurs are done - it really is that easy to explain.

I didn't say I was unique. I gave me stance. You came along and went all "The ans" on me with the quitter speech. You're watching on TV. This isn't WoW. I don't pretend well.

By the way, Duncan signed his extension and took less money than he was due after the Manu foul on Dirk and .4 - the FO failed to live up to their end of the bargain and acquire quality players with the money they saved on Duncan's contract.

False fan bravado - really?

Really. The whole "my dad didn't raise a quitter" makes it sound like you are actually doing something to win. You are hoping a team does something to win. I hope they do as well. Appreciating them for what I have been lucky enough to witness in my lifetime isn't the same as quitting. I am not going to pretend flaming their roster, coach, owner, mascot, building and city is going to influence their choices. I am a fan of the franchise.

I do, however, appreciate the concern by fans such as yourself as long as it doesn't turn into a lynch mob.

A team remains viable for a short time. We have 4 rings from Tim Duncan's era. Name all the players of Tim's caliber that have 4 rings in your lifetime. You probably only need one hand.

[Giuseppe]

DMC, gettin' his caca rearranged by his fellows.

[Caeman]

DMC, gettin' his caca rearranged by his fellows.

DMC has the balls to admit that he is okay with being a loser and okay to live in the past. We don't need that pussy at ude. That contributes to the ty approach this FO has had these last 4 years. "We're only one piece away"...Yeah, one big ing piece away.

Moves needed to be made, and they were never made. Now the era is done and we are disappointed.

But DMC has the balls to call us fairweather fans because we're disappointed. ing moron.

[DMC]

DMC has the balls to admit that he is okay with being a loser and okay to live in the past. We don't need that pussy at ude. That contributes to the ty approach this FO has had these last 4 years. "We're only one piece away"...Yeah, one big ing piece away.

Moves needed to be made, and they were never made. Now the era is done and we are disappointed.

But DMC has the balls to call us fairweather fans because we're disappointed. ing moron.

No where in my OP did I call anyone a fair weather fan. In fact, I haven't called anyone here a fair weather fan. I just said fair weather fans disappoint me.

[DMC]

DMC, gettin' his caca rearranged by his fellows.

This is basketball talk Culby. The romper room is downstairs.

[Caeman]

No where in my OP did I call anyone a fair weather fan. In fact, I haven't called anyone here a fair weather fan. I just said fair weather fans disappoint me.

In another thread you called Spurs fans that were disappointed with how this year turn out 'fairweather fans'. Just cause it's not in the OP, doesn't mean you didn't say it.

edit*disappointed fans are not fairweather fans. We want to win. That doesn't make us fairweather fans. That happens when fans follow teams on when they win; it isn't defined as the desire for your team to win.

[DMC]

In another thread you called Spurs fans that were disappointed with how this year turn out 'fairweather fans'. Just cause it's not in the OP, doesn't mean you didn't say it.

Show me.

edit*disappointed fans are not fairweather fans. We want to win. That doesn't make us fairweather fans. That happens when fans follow teams on when they win; it isn't defined as the desire for your team to win.

I said this exactly:

Fair weather fans. That's always a disappointment but it's the nature of the business.

I didn't call anyone a fair weather fan. I said fair weather fans disappoint me.

You are really jousting at windmills here, Quixote.

[Caeman]

Show me.

I said this exactly:



I didn't call anyone a fair weather fan. I said fair weather fans disappoint me.

You are really jousting at windmills here, Quixote.

So, you go into a thread where fans are expressing their disappointment with how the season turned out, drop "fair weather fans diappoint me", but aren't referring to the people in the thread?

WTF were you doing then? (besides getting youre +1)