Did I say May 21st? What I *really* meant was...

[RandomGuy]

This is pretty sad that I don't really even give a crap about charity but my reasoning crushes that of somebody who ostensibly cared. You -for-brains are soooooooooooo beneath me.

"Intelligent" ... people simply use their intelligence for self-delusion. You can convince yourself of all kinds of things if you really want to believe them. Smart people come up with craftier fallacies, that is all.

HS' pe , meet HS.

[RandomGuy]

Back to the original topic, this guy is probably the 100,00th or so Christian leader to predict a date and be wrong. There are lots of splinter groups, sects, etc., i.e. the Jehovah's Witnesses, who started off this way.

The "orthodox" version where "nobody knows the day nor hour" works out really well because when it keeps not happening, they end up "vindicated" even though the reason it keeps not happening is because it is all made up.

The early Christians were *convinced* Jesus was coming back in the 1st century. The reason for that is because Jesus promised them it would happen in the apostles' lifetimes. That promise can be found in the Gospels. Only when the last of the apostles died off with no sign of a Second Coming did that promise have to be, ahem, "reinterpreted."

Which is essentially what the jackwagon in the OP did. The literal rapture got converted into a allegorical, not-literal rapture.

People interpret the bible literally when it agrees with what they are inclined to believe, then figuratively when it gets to the kinds of that militant atheists always bring up in conversations like these, i.e. the old testament sections on who should be stoned.

There are some lines of thinking that say that the entire new testament was simply written some time in the 4th century.

Personally I find it quite telling that the earth shaking miracles depicted in so many ancient passages just stopped happening about the time the ability to write became widespread and the first glimmers of true science came about.

[mingus]

Which is essentially what the jackwagon in the OP did. The literal rapture got converted into a allegorical, not-literal rapture.

People interpret the bible literally when it agrees with what they are inclined to believe, then figuratively when it gets to the kinds of that militant atheists always bring up in conversations like these, i.e. the old testament sections on who should be stoned.

There are some lines of thinking that say that the entire new testament was simply written some time in the 4th century.

Personally I find it quite telling that the earth shaking miracles depicted in so many ancient passages just stopped happening about the time the ability to write became widespread and the first glimmers of true science came about.

but people who are religious generally don't respond to the Bible on a logical level. you point out to them that the "earth shaking miracles" aren't happening anymore and they will give you a response that DEFIES logic. it's not that they're stupid either (neccessarily). for a lot of the religious people i've been around (esp. many of them who live absolute abject poverty) it wouldn't make any sense to pay any attention to the facts because RELIGION is all they got. GOD is all they got. it gives them reason to be optimistic. why would they flood their brains with facts that might undermine that god exists? wouldn't do them an good. problem with that is you get some of the ignorance that comes along with some of those passages that are in the Bible. but hey, it's a life-sustaining force for a lot of them. you gotta take the good with the bad from (from my prespective at least--i'm just a theist).

it's always the people who are in relatively favorable, positive cir stances pointing out that the Bible on many levels is fallacious. and they're right. it's is fallacious. it is stupid in alot of ways. but from up here (gotta say i got it pretty good) it's also stupid to eat out of a trashcan or eat rotten food, or drink diry water. tray telling that to a poor person though and they'll laugh at you and call YOU stupid.

[ALVAREZ6]

but people who are religious generally don't respond to the Bible on a logical level. you point out to them that the "earth shaking miracles" aren't happening anymore and they will give you a response that DEFIES logic. it's not that they're stupid either (neccessarily). for a lot of the religious people i've been around (esp. many of them who live absolute abject poverty) it wouldn't make any sense to pay any attention to the facts because RELIGION is all they got. GOD is all they got. it gives them reason to be optimistic. why would they flood their brains with facts that might undermine that god exists? wouldn't do them an good. problem with that is you get some of the ignorance that comes along with some of those passages that are in the Bible. but hey, it's a life-sustaining force for a lot of them. you gotta take the good with the bad from (from my prespective at least--i'm just a theist).

it's always the people who are in relatively favorable, positive cir stances pointing out that the Bible on many levels is fallacious. and they're right. it's is fallacious. it is stupid in alot of ways. but from up here (gotta say i got it pretty good) it's also stupid to eat out of a trashcan or eat rotten food, or drink diry water. tray telling that to a poor person though and they'll laugh at you and call YOU stupid.

....

don't really understand the point of this post, it's pretty understandable for very poor people to be religious and I don't blame them, I doubt anyone here is arguing otherwise, and eating out of a trashcan and drinking dirty water is NOT stupid if that is your only option and your goal is to survive because your other option is a slow death.

[mingus]

The purpose of my post was to point out that bringing in facts & logic to "expose" the Bible doesn't do any good for people who respond to it on primarily emotional level and are dismissive of the anything that is going undermine belief system

[Nathan Explosion]

What I've always wondered is why a lot of atheists find it their life's mission to expose the bible. Why even bother? Just let things go and live your life. If nothing is going to happen when you die, then why waste so much time and energy when all you have is this time on Earth.

Religious people believe they have something to work for, so they can waste time and energy doing these type of things. What's the point for an atheist? Instead of arguing with the "idiots", how about you enjoy yourself because it'll all be over soon and then......nothing.

[RandomGuy]

but people who are religious generally don't respond to the Bible on a logical level. you point out to them that the "earth shaking miracles" aren't happening anymore and they will give you a response that DEFIES logic. it's not that they're stupid either (neccessarily). for a lot of the religious people i've been around (esp. many of them who live absolute abject poverty) it wouldn't make any sense to pay any attention to the facts because RELIGION is all they got. GOD is all they got. it gives them reason to be optimistic. why would they flood their brains with facts that might undermine that god exists? wouldn't do them an good. problem with that is you get some of the ignorance that comes along with some of those passages that are in the Bible. but hey, it's a life-sustaining force for a lot of them. you gotta take the good with the bad from (from my prespective at least--i'm just a theist).

it's always the people who are in relatively favorable, positive cir stances pointing out that the Bible on many levels is fallacious. and they're right. it's is fallacious. it is stupid in alot of ways. but from up here (gotta say i got it pretty good) it's also stupid to eat out of a trashcan or eat rotten food, or drink diry water. tray telling that to a poor person though and they'll laugh at you and call YOU stupid.

Don't get me wrong here. There is some wisdom to be had from the Bible, as there is wisdom in many religions. One doesnt' have to buy the entire thing to think that helping the poor is a good thing, or that being good to other people is the way to go through life.

[Nathan Explosion]

Don't get me wrong here. There is some wisdom to be had from the Bible, as there is wisdom in many religions. One doesnt' have to buy the entire thing to think that helping the poor is a good thing, or that being good to other people is the way to go through life.

Don't kill, don't steal, be kind and love your fellow man. These are all things that religion teaches us. However, these are all things that we should all follow, regardless if a book teaches us this or not. We should all not kill, steal, and be kind to everyone. So it goes either way.

[Fernando TD21]

lots of religion bashing in this thread. broad generalizations & slanted takes. i'm not very religious myself, but lets not forget there's a lot of good being done throughout world by religious people. in a month i'm going to a Ethopia for a month do hardcore charity work. i'll be doing what i can do to help out in some of the poorest areas in the world. it's being funded about a church and organized by two priests. not that i looked, but i seriously doubt theres any athiest organizations offering this kind of opportunity in my community.

Don't kill, don't steal, be kind and love your fellow man. These are all things that religion teaches us. However, these are all things that we should all follow, regardless if a book teaches us this or not. We should all not kill, steal, and be kind to everyone. So it goes either way.

In a ideal world we wouldn't need religion. But unfortunately a lot of people only embrace this type of morality when they have something to fear or to encourage them ( , God, etc.).

[Muser]

The world ends on my 20th birthday, in' A.

[mingus]

Don't get me wrong here. There is some wisdom to be had from the Bible, as there is wisdom in many religions. One doesnt' have to buy the entire thing to think that helping the poor is a good thing, or that being good to other people is the way to go through life.

yeah but i find that religion and a belief in a higher being will cause people to get off there ass an actually do those things instead of just talking about them.

[RandomGuy]

yeah but i find that religion and a belief in a higher being will cause people to get off there ass an actually do those things instead of just talking about them.

I think the kinds of people who are motivated to help others will do so regardless of religious beliefs.

It would be an interesting question to study.

[Blake]

yeah but i find that religion and a belief in a higher being will cause people to get off there ass an actually do those things instead of just talking about them.

I find many reasons for people to motivate themselves to help others.

[RandomGuy]

Jon Stewart quipped at the time "actuarially speaking, [the 89 year old Camping] isn't far off" in his predictions of the end of the world.

Homeslice might not live to see October and the third failure of his worldview.

Rapture Preacher Suffers Stroke, Now in Hospital

Our reverence for religious beliefs or variations thereof are probably the only thing keeping him out of jail.

[easjer]

Here's my question, as I haven't studied this much at all - did followers give money to Camping? Or use their own funds on their own to promote his message? I read a year or so ago - and again when this all didn't go down - about people selling their homes, cashing in their retirement packages and going on the road to proselytize. But that's not the same sort of fleecing that say, Bernie Madoff, was into. He wasn't directly taking their money for the most part, right? I know he probably received donations through his foundations or whatever, and is probably paid through them as well, but I'd guess those books are pretty clean.

[Bukefal]

He received huge amounts of donations from his blind followers. Ive read somewhere around 70 million. With that money he paid for all the huge posters he put up in almost every bigger city in the USA and Europe.

[easjer]

But he wasn't keeping the money himself or treating friends and family to expensive vacations to await the rapture/apocalypse in lavish style, right?

I donate to March of Dimes, and raise money for them. This spring, they gave money and support to the campaign for KV Pharmaceuticals to get exclusive marketing rights to a drug called Makena (formerly 17p) for the next seven years. This drug has been made in compounding facilities for many years and the primary research on the drug was done years and years ago, and very little research costs were incurred by KV Pharmaceuticals.

The drug itself is proven to help women like me who have a history of pre-term labor without clear cause (well, my cause was known, but it can assist in keeping me pregnant longer with few side-effects and no danger to the fetus) in a way that tocolytics don't seem to help.

With MoD support, KV won the patents and the rights and promptly took a drug that used to be $15 a shot on average (1 shot per week, from weeks 16 to 36 of pregnancy), and raised the cost to $1500 per dose. Because they could. They've since come down to under $700 per shot, but it doesn't change the way I personally feel about money I solicited in my son's name and money I earned and donated going to support this.

Doesn't make it illegal, however.

Which it seems is what is happening here. Trust and faith are finicky things, and so long as his followers were ok with how that money was spent and so long as they weren't living in ultra-luxury . . . well, it sucks, but you can't protect individuals from parting with their money if they are determined and believe the cause a worthy one.

[Bukefal]

I have no idea, if the money really end up where he said it will end up. Probably not, because usually these kind of 'sects' are just a scam by a smart leader who manages to brainwash and get his followers so stupid so that they give up their money, jobs, possesions and everything for that leader, under the guise of 'its for a good cause'.

Meanwhile the leader fills his pockets very well and turn out to be the smart scammer.

In this case I dont know. He did actually spend a lot of money for this, because these posters and leaflets and radio shows were literally everywhere. Even in europe, in almost every town at bus stops and walls you saw his bull .

But still, because of all other cases like this, you tend to be sceptical and thats why I dont believe he didnt fill his own pockets.

[florige]

But he wasn't keeping the money himself or treating friends and family to expensive vacations to await the rapture/apocalypse in lavish style, right?

I donate to March of Dimes, and raise money for them. This spring, they gave money and support to the campaign for KV Pharmaceuticals to get exclusive marketing rights to a drug called Makena (formerly 17p) for the next seven years. This drug has been made in compounding facilities for many years and the primary research on the drug was done years and years ago, and very little research costs were incurred by KV Pharmaceuticals.

The drug itself is proven to help women like me who have a history of pre-term labor without clear cause (well, my cause was known, but it can assist in keeping me pregnant longer with few side-effects and no danger to the fetus) in a way that tocolytics don't seem to help.

With MoD support, KV won the patents and the rights and promptly took a drug that used to be $15 a shot on average (1 shot per week, from weeks 16 to 36 of pregnancy), and raised the cost to $1500 per dose. Because they could. They've since come down to under $700 per shot, but it doesn't change the way I personally feel about money I solicited in my son's name and money I earned and donated going to support this.

Doesn't make it illegal, however.

Which it seems is what is happening here. Trust and faith are finicky things, and so long as his followers were ok with how that money was spent and so long as they weren't living in ultra-luxury . . . well, it sucks, but you can't protect individuals from parting with their money if they are determined and believe the cause a worthy one.

Just looking at the modest house he lived in doesn't seem to be any kind of scam. From the outside the poor old guy really thought that he would be right on this time. I was fully expecting to see some sort of lavish palace after this was all said and done.

[Agloco]

He had a stroke. Bad juju?

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/0...roke/?iref=NS1

Harold Camping, the leader of the apocalyptic movement that predicted the end of the world would begin on May 21, has suffered a stroke, an employee at his radio ministry said Monday.

Camping suffered a “mild stroke,” last Thursday, said an operator at Family Radio, Camping's California-based broadcast ministry.

“He’s presently recuperating in a local hospital and doctors are pleased with his progress,” said the operator, who would not give her name.

[boutons_deux]

"He had a stroke"

There have been and will be plenty more just like him, spouting the same nihilistic "Christian" garbage.

[Fabbs]

He received huge amounts of donations from his blind followers. Ive read somewhere around 70 million. With that money he paid for all the huge posters he put up in almost every bigger city in the USA and Europe.

70 million?

And what did he do with the leftover money? (70 million - billboard costs?)
Me guesses one can do all those billboards for 3 million easy.
67 million left?

[Bukefal]

70 million?

And what did he do with the leftover money? (70 million - billboard costs?)
Me guesses one can do all those billboards for 3 million easy.
67 million left?

I have no idea. I've read it somewhere a while ago. But, yeah that's why I think he has a lot of money left which probably ended up in his own pocket, because usually thats the case with these kind of idiots.

[Spurminator]