The only way to get rid of RJ?

[Spurtacus]

Spurs get:
Anderson Varejao
Ramon Sessions
Daniel Gibson

Cavs get:
Richard Jefferson
DeJuan Blair
Antonio McDyess contract
2nd round pick

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=5t6xtq2

Spurs get a starting center and excellent backup PG. Cavs instantly free up some cap room with McDyess and save by unloading Gibson. With RJ they get a SF, a scoring wing, and his contract is more friendly then Varejao's (3 years to 4). Even though RJ sucks for the Spurs he could be a #2 or #3 guy on a team like the Cavs. The only question mark is this trade leaves the Cavs without a center and a small frontline (Hickson, Jamison, Thompson, Blair). Spurs would have to flip Gibson to a third team; preferably for a cheap SF (maybe Donte Greene from Sac). We are still over the currently proposed cap; hopefully Duncan restructures to take a paycut.

Projected Spurs roster

C: Varejao, Splitter, FA
PF: Duncan, Bonner, FA
SF: Leonard, Butler, FA
SG: Manu, Neal, Anderson
PG: Parker, Sessions, Joseph

[TD 21]

Bobcats receive: Milicic, Tolliver

Cavaliers receive: Jefferson, McDyess, Blair, Spurs unprotected '13 1st round pick

Timberwolves receive: Varejao

Spurs receive: Thomas, Samuels

For the Bobcats, they slightly slash payroll short term and more than slightly long term and fill their need for a C.

For the Cavs, they fill their need at SF, get some financial relief, get a quality young asset (with Hickson and Thompson, they may not necessarily want Blair, but he can easily be flipped for a decent young wing) and take a flier on a pick that could be a high one, given the age of Duncan and Ginobili.

For the T-Wolves, they get the type of long, mobile defender they've coveted for some time (and a good chemistry guy, which is another supposed need) and "only" take on roughly $4 million in payroll annually to do so.

For the Spurs, they get about as close to a young McDyess as they can realistically attain (in terms of game, not temperament), slash payroll and continue with their stated goal of getting back to being one of the best defensive teams in the league. They also get a fifth big, who they supposedly liked going into the '10 draft.

[Muser]

The Cavs are in rebuilding mode, no way they would want any part of RJ and his ty contract.

[JonNOKC]

Spurs get:
Anderson Varejao
Ramon Sessions
Daniel Gibson

Cavs get:
Richard Jefferson
DeJuan Blair
Antonio McDyess contract
2nd round pick

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=5t6xtq2

Spurs get a starting center and excellent backup PG. Cavs instantly free up some cap room with McDyess and save by unloading Gibson. With RJ they get a SF, a scoring wing, and his contract is more friendly then Varejao's (3 years to 4). Even though RJ sucks for the Spurs he could be a #2 or #3 guy on a team like the Cavs. The only question mark is this trade leaves the Cavs without a center and a small frontline (Hickson, Jamison, Thompson, Blair). Spurs would have to flip Gibson to a third team; preferably for a cheap SF (maybe Donte Greene from Sac). We are still over the currently proposed cap; hopefully Duncan restructures to take a paycut.

Projected Spurs roster

C: Varejao, Splitter, FA
PF: Duncan, Bonner, FA
SF: Leonard, Butler, FA
SG: Manu, Neal, Anderson
PG: Parker, Sessions, Joseph

I don't know if there is alot of reason for Cavs to do this unless they really like Blair alot - Varejoa isn't that bad of a contract by NBA standards and they don't have alot on the front line - at the end of the day there is really little reason for them to trade for RJ (Jamison, Thompson,and from what I have read they like Gee)

It would be nice to trade RJ and fill a couple needs on this team but realistically any team that takes on RJ is doing so to unload a contract just as bad and possibly worse than RJs or you are getting a player with baggage/issues

I think CLE (along with ATL, DET, CHA) are potential trade partners, but there aren't gonna be many options unless you throw in a TP and then you aren't gonna get fair return

I suggested the B. Davis trade not because I love Davis or would be that excited about the trade, but it was one of the few trades that makes some sense for both teams, doesn't require you to give up a young talent, and has potential to pay dividends for the Spurs

[Spurtacus]

The Cavs are in rebuilding mode, no way they would want any part of RJ and his ty contract.

His contract is better then Varejao's and they need a SF more then a big. This is basically a player swap but the relief comes in with McDyess' contract and taking back the contracts of Sessions and Gibson.

[elemento]

Again

why would the Cavs trade the only guy capable to play C in their roster ? That does not make any sense. And they have so many PFs in their roster. They just got Thompson in the draft. They have Jamison, JJ Hickson and Samuels. Why would they want to add a 5th PF in their roster and let go the only guy that can play C for them ?

[Spurtacus]

Again

why would the Cavs trade the only guy capable to play C in their roster ? That does not make any sense. And they have so many PFs in their roster. They just got Thompson in the draft. They have Jamison, JJ Hickson and Samuels. Why would they want to add a 5th PF in their roster and let go the only guy that can play C for them ?

If Bonner/Blair play center for the Spurs I'm pretty sure Jamison/Hickson/Thompson can too. I did state in my post that the question mark is they are losing their true center; reading comprehension is your friend.

I've read Cleveland is looking to deal Varejao or Hickson. I doubt Hickson since he's cheap and had a nice year last season.

[TD 21]

The Cavs are in rebuilding mode, no way they would want any part of RJ and his ty contract.

You don't get it. They have tons of cap space, an owner ready and willing to spend and a gaping hole at SF. It's not about them wanting Jefferson (because there's no reason for any team to), it's about making it worth their while for them to take him off the Spurs hands. Unlike a lot of teams, it wouldn't hamstring them financially.

The value for them in the trade I proposed is clear. They get a potential lottery pick down the road and a decent young asset that they could flip for, say, Rush, to upgrade the wing positions. McDyess gives them some immediate relief and while Jefferson makes more than Varejao annually, Varejao's contract is longer.

And say what you want about Jefferson, but he's still a clear upgrade over Gee/Eyenga at SF and the type of mature, professional veteran every young team needs. Plus, he's got a prior history with Scott.

[Nathan89]

You don't get it. They have tons of cap space, an owner ready and willing to spend and a gaping hole at SF. It's not about them wanting Jefferson (because there's no reason for any team to), it's about making it worth their while for them to take him off the Spurs hands. Unlike a lot of teams, it wouldn't hamstring them financially.

The value for them in the trade I proposed is clear. They get a potential lottery pick down the road and a decent young asset that they could flip for, say, Rush, to upgrade the wing positions. McDyess gives them some immediate relief and while Jefferson makes more than Varejao annually, Varejao's contract is longer.

And say what you want about Jefferson, but he's still a clear upgrade over Gee/Eyenga at SF and the type of mature, professional veteran every young team needs. Plus, he's got a prior history with Scott.

The contract length is the same because the last year on Varejao is a team option.

[Spurtacus]

RJ
2011: 9,282,000
2012: 10,164,000
2013: 11,046,000 *player option*

Varejao
2011: 7,700,000
2012: 8,400,000
2013: 9,100,000

Well, after looking at that I can see how my proposed trade doesn't make sense. Varejao's contract is actually better. I'm sure RJ will exercise that 11m option. Bah...oh well.

[TD 21]

The contract length is the same because the last year on Varejao is a team option.

I should have checked, instead of going by memory. Still, everything else I said holds true.

[elemento]

If Bonner/Blair play center for the Spurs I'm pretty sure Jamison/Hickson/Thompson can too. I did state in my post that the question mark is they are losing their true center; reading comprehension is your friend.

I've read Cleveland is looking to deal Varejao or Hickson. I doubt Hickson since he's cheap and had a nice year last season.

Yeah because the stupid mistake to play Bonner and Blair at the 5 should be followed by the Cavs in order to get the super stud Richard Jefferson and help the Spurs

Common sense is your friend

Hickson is cheaper, but next season will be his last in the rookie scale. And they would not draft Thompson if they believed Hickson is their future in the PF position. Still, if they trade Andy, they can get a better value than what you proposed.

[Mel_13]

The value for them in the trade I proposed is clear. They get a potential lottery pick down the road and a decent young asset that they could flip for, say, Rush, to upgrade the wing positions. McDyess gives them some immediate relief and while Jefferson makes more than Varejao annually, Varejao's contract is longer.

Including Dice's contract in this proposed deal provides relief to the Spurs and adds payroll to the Cavs

And say what you want about Jefferson, but he's still a clear upgrade over Gee/Eyenga at SF and the type of mature, professional veteran every young team needs. Plus, he's got a prior history with Scott.

I'd like to believe that this notion of RJ to the Cavs has some legs. The points you make here provide some reasons to remain optimistic.

[Spurtacus]

Yeah because the stupid mistake to play Bonner and Blair at the 5 should be followed by the Cavs in order to get the super stud Richard Jefferson and help the Spurs

Common sense is your friend

Hickson is cheaper, but next season will be his last in the rookie scale. And they would not draft Thompson if they believed Hickson is their future in the PF position. Still, if they trade Andy, they can get a better value than what you proposed.

It is a mistake to play Bonner/Blair but you missed my point. You can find centers out there shorter then 6'11. You seem to believe that because Varejao is 6'11/7 footer that he's their only center. I'm pretty sure Jamison & Hickson played center at some point last season since Varejao was out for a while.

[TD 21]

Including Dice's contract in this proposed deal provides relief to the Spurs and adds payroll to the Cavs





I'd like to believe that this notion of RJ to the Cavs has some legs. The points you make here provide some reasons to remain optimistic.

Alright, so I made the odd mistake by going off of memory. I forget exactly what McDyess is guaranteed, but I believe the Cavs would add roughly $4 to next season's payroll, which they can easily afford.

Nitpicking and technicalities aside, the base of it makes sense for all four teams involved.

[JonNOKC]

Again

why would the Cavs trade the only guy capable to play C in their roster ? That does not make any sense. And they have so many PFs in their roster. They just got Thompson in the draft. They have Jamison, JJ Hickson and Samuels. Why would they want to add a 5th PF in their roster and let go the only guy that can play C for them ?

I have to agree - I think the Cavs still like Varejao and why not (injury plague season he still avg 9pts,10rebs,52%FG) and when you take in account the position he plays and the fact he is 28 his contract isn't really a bad deal at all.

Also Jamison can play 3 or 4, and Thompson is going to get playing time as the Cavs aren't challenging for the playoffs.

I would love to turn RJ into T. Thomas but it isn't happening (although maybe it could sense MJ is fast becoming the next Isaiah Thomas)

Anyway if the Spurs could pull it off you are involving the right people in Kahn and MJ

[Mel_13]

Alright, so I made the odd mistake by going off of memory. I forget exactly what McDyess is guaranteed, but I believe the Cavs would add roughly $4 to next season's payroll, which they can easily afford.

Nitpicking and technicalities aside, the base of it makes sense for all four teams involved.

I wasn't nitpicking. I was addressing the logic for the trade which you defined:

It's not about them wanting Jefferson (because there's no reason for any team to), it's about making it worth their while for them to take him off the Spurs hands.

Ultimately, I don't see any team trading for RJ before June 30th. As you said, there's no reason for any team to want him and taking on that contract without knowing the details of the new CBA is extremely risky.

If Cleveland has any sort of interest in RJ, a deal like this will be available after the new CBA is signed.

Five more days to speculate, then all the trade proposals can be put on hold until we know the new rules.

[elemento]

It is a mistake to play Bonner/Blair but you missed my point. You can find centers out there shorter then 6'11. You seem to believe that because Varejao is 6'11/7 footer that he's their only center. I'm pretty sure Jamison & Hickson played center at some point last season since Varejao was out for a while.

Man i was not trying to bash your trade proposal. As a Spurs fan, i want a reasonable trade to get rid of Jefferson as much as you do.
I do get your point.

The problem here is: Would they consider play small-ball the whole season if they could trade Andy for a nice SF ? Of course they would. But they would never consider it if the pieces back are Jefferson and Blair. That's my point.

Blair does not make any sense for them because they are full of PFs. And there are many FA SFs this offseason that they could land without giving up Andy. Butler, Chandler, Green, Mbah a Moute, Prince, Battier ..just to name a few.

[Spurtacus]

Man i was not trying to bash your trade proposal. As a Spurs fan, i want a reasonable trade to get rid of Jefferson as much as you do.
I do get your point.

The problem here is: Would they consider play small-ball the whole season if they could trade Andy for a nice SF ? Of course they would. But they would never consider it if the pieces back are Jefferson and Blair. That's my point.

Blair does not make any sense for them because they are full of PFs. And there are many FA SFs this offseason that they could land without giving up Andy. Butler, Chandler, Green, Mbah a Moute, Prince, Battier ..just to name a few.

Blair was more of a throw in to offset a big loss. Instead of him and a 2nd rounder we could give up a protected 1st round pick. When I initially proposed my offer I thought Varejao's contract was better then RJ's...but because of RJ's player option and Varejao's team option they are not. Its still close to a wash if a trade was done 1 for 1 but I felt McDyess' contract in addition to taking the contracts of Sessions and Gibson would provide some relief to the Cavs.

[TD 21]

There's a bunch of variations and alterations that could be made -- such as the Spurs including Anderson and taking back Gibson -- but it's the general benefits that all four teams would reap that is the key.

If the Spurs took back Gibson though, forget about signing Battier. They'd probably have to go with Leonard, some veteran's minimum type like R. Butler and D. Butler/Green at SF. If they didn't take Gibson, they could sign Battier/Watson. It would leave them thin offensively (with the big three + Neal as the only true scorers), but they'd likely be much improved defensively and more balanced.

[Spurtacus]

There's a bunch of variations and alterations that could be made -- such as the Spurs including Anderson and taking back Gibson -- but it's the general benefits that all four teams would reap that is the key.

If the Spurs took back Gibson though, forget about signing Battier. They'd probably have to go with Leonard, some veteran's minimum type like R. Butler and D. Butler/Green at SF. If they didn't take Gibson, they could sign Battier/Watson. It would leave them thin offensively (with the big three + Neal as the only true scorers), but they'd likely be much improved defensively and more balanced.

Gibson would be flipped to a 3rd team for a cheap SF in my initial proposal. I can't imagine the Cavs want to pay 4 million to an undersized SG/backup PG especially since they have 3 PG right now. My initial proposal is a longshot now since Varejao contract is better than RJ.

[MaNu4Tres]

RJ
2011: 9,282,000
2012: 10,164,000
2013: 11,046,000 *player option*

Varejao
2011: 7,700,000
2012: 8,400,000
2013: 9,100,000

Well, after looking at that I can see how my proposed trade doesn't make sense. Varejao's contract is actually better. I'm sure RJ will exercise that 11m option. Bah...oh well.

You're missing a year. Varejao is due 9.95 million in 2014-- Which is the team option.

[Spurtacus]

You're missing a year. Varejao is due 9.95 million in 2014-- Which is the team option.

That's why I left it off. I was comparing Varejao to RJ.

[Nathan89]

Including Dice's contract in this proposed deal provides relief to the Spurs and adds payroll to the Cavs

I thought Dice would save another team money because he is retiring. Is that not the case???

[TD 21]

Gibson would be flipped to a 3rd team for a cheap SF in my initial proposal. I can't imagine the Cavs want to pay 4 million to an undersized SG/backup PG especially since they have 3 PG right now. My initial proposal is a longshot now since Varejao contract is better than RJ.

They probably do. He's by far the best shooter they have under contract, he's still young, coming off a solid season and I believe a fan favorite. They already lost James and in this trade, they'd be losing Varejao and when you consider how long it's likely to take for them to become respectable again, that could factor in. They may force Sessions on the Spurs, who's not a fit. The only way I could see the Spurs taking Sessions is if they flipped him for a cheap SF. The Spurs could do the same with Gibson, as well, or keep him and go with a veteran's minimum SF. Lots of options.