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so you need outside help in a Kobe > Duncan debate....
tickle my ass some more will ya....
Tim Duncan >> Kobe
It's not the rings, it's the performances in the playoffs and Finals. The rings do matter, but Malone choked in the playoffs. Duncan never did.
Duncan actually got better in the playoffs.
so you need outside help in a Kobe > Duncan debate....
tickle my ass some more will ya....
Tim Duncan >> Kobe
Especially hakeem and Shaq who played both ends, especially Hakeem for being greater than Duncan.
I agree that does make a case over Malone but what about Hakeem and Shaq? they both did all of those things ...and their numbers are greater.
Hakeem was a center
I can't believe people still respond to this troll.
122-86
If you want to credit Shaq, you have to take credit from Kobe. If you want to credit Kobe, you have to take credit from Shaq. You cannot give both all the credit.
Rings don't tell you which player is better. So you choose Duncan over Hakeem AND Shaq?
There have been some conflicting posts in the last couple seconds
I don't know about Hakeem 'cause I don't remember much of him, but Shaq > Duncan, I have no problem in admitting that.
Shaq is a better center than Duncan. Duncan would destroy him at the PF.
This logic is a misuse of statistics to make a point. It also contradicts your next post.
Malone with the Jazz made the finals twice, and lost to Jordan. He also lost 3 times in the WCF. So, it's easy to see Duncan did much better than Malone in the playoffs. However this topic is about Kobe and Duncan, and Kobe's resume against Duncan needs a bit more explanation in relation to your first post.
Since Duncan came into the league in 1997-98:
Kobe 5 Rings, Duncan 4. That's 5/14 vs. 4/14
Kobe 7 finals appearances, Duncan 4 That's 7/14 vs. 4/14
Kobe is 7-1 in 8 appearances in the WCF, Duncan is 4-2 in 6. That's 8/14 vs. 6/14
Kobe got to the 2nd round 11 times, Duncan got to it 11 times as well. that's 11/14 vs. 11/14
Kobe's 2nd round record is 8-3, Duncan's is 6-5.
Kobe got to the playoffs 13 of 14 seasons, Duncan all 14, that's 13/14 vs. 14/14.
Kobe's first round playoff record is 11-2. Duncan's first round playoff record is 11-3, 11-2 if you examine what follows next.
Now granted, Spurs lost in first round in 2000 with Duncan injured, but Kobe's team's have gone further than Duncan's teams by every margin except playoff appearances. the Spurs 4-0 finals record looks great, as does the Bulls 6-0 Finals mark, but what about everything else? To compare two players or two teams, everything needs to be examined. This could go on ad infinitum it seems, trying to look at "everything". Duncan may have played a better game in the playoffs than the regular season as you infer, but his team didn't perform as well as Kobe's teams did. It isn't as close as 5-4, it's more to Kobe's advantage than that when you count all playoffs as you suggest.
Very nice but that proves that since 1999 the Lakers are more succesful than the Spurs, not that Kobe is a better player than Duncan.
Oh yeah, I agree. I favor TD over Kobe as I have stated. It's just that so many arguments simply don't belong. Or they are not thought out.
Everyone is en led to their opinion but I will go with the experts on this. By default Kobe's position makes him a better player than Tim Duncan...you can say Tim is your preference but don't say it on the basis of Tim being a better player, because when you do that you make a joke out of you. Listen to Hakeem speaking on Kobe...and specifically the difference between a big man and Kobe:
Q. If you look at the Top 10 all-time scorers, Kobe and Jordan are the only guards other than Oscar Robertson.When a big man makes a move, for example, he has one dribble or two dribbles and has to go up, but with a guard, you don’t pick up that dribble until the moment you’re ready to shoot. That gives him the advantage over every big guy that plays in the post because he often will have more dribbles to do more things.
nothing else you guys say really makes a difference. The players that play the game by and large agree with my thinking...Outside of SA players I'm almost certain that all other players would pick Kobe over Duncan in their sleep. It's not personal it's just common ing sense.A. Olajuwon: Well, the two guard is the toughest position, the most athletic position. The average two would be a superstar at the four or five position with the skill set. So, for someone to dominate at the most difficult, the hardest position, it’s just something else. Both what set Kobe and Michael apart was that they were too big for most 2’s, and too mobile for most 3’s, so they have the advantage over most everybody. Very, very seldom do you find a player that matches up with them.
http://www.nba.com/lakers/news/110129kobehakeem.html
You're a ing re . PLAIN and SIMPLE. You just answered it yourself.Who is David Robinson...
and when Tim wasn't playing with a HOF bigman he was playing with one of the best point guard and 2 guards in the NBA at that time in Tony and Manu...so Tim had all the help he needed.
and another thing...those Laker teams were built around Shaq not Kobe and Kobe still dominated Duncan...Kobe's stats as 2nd option is better than Duncan's as 1st option.
Go figure.
How the do you think Kobe scored all those points as the second option. Do you remember a guy called Shaquille O'neal? The Spurs or any other team had to focus most of their defense on him, thus leaving Kobe to play one on one most of the time.
If you put Tim Duncan with a prime Shaq and Shaq was double and triple teamed leaving Duncan to go one on one then Tim probably averages 30-35ppg.
How do you think Kobe scored all those points as the second option? You're not even a Laker fan if you don't know that. Shaq took a lot of pressure off of him as the defense always focuses on the 1st option, the most dominant player on the court. Same as Tim Duncan was the focus of the other teams defense which is usually geared to shut him down first.
You just can't compare a first option to a second option. Put up Shaq Vs Tim's stats. That would be a better thread.
The debate Vs Kobe and Tim is a waste of time as you just can't compare a guy who was a second option for half of his career to a guy that was first from day 1. Head to heat also is just a small sample size and a conclusion can't be drawn from that either.
Take Shaq off those teams and Kobe has zero rings. I can't even see where you'd get the 1 ring from for Kobe. It'd be 5-0 or 4-0. Kobe wouldn't have won anything between '99 and '03 with out Shaq.
Burrito
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
For other uses, see Burrito (disambiguation).
A burrito
A burrito (US English /bəˈritoʊ/, Spanish: [bu'ri.to]), or taco de harina, is a type of Mexican food. It consists of a wheat flour tortilla wrapped or folded around a filling. The flour tortilla is usually lightly grilled or steamed, to soften it and make it more pliable. In Mexico, refried beans, Mexican rice, or meat are usually the only fillings and the tortilla is smaller in size. In the United States, however, fillings generally include a combination of ingredients such as Mexican rice, beans, lettuce, salsa, meat, avocado, cheese, and sour cream, and the size varies, with some burritos considerably larger than their Mexican counterparts.
Contents
[hide]
[edit] History
[edit] Antecedents
Hand-held take-out foods like the burrito have a long history. Before the Spanish colonization of the Americas, indigenous peoples were eating hand-held snack foods like corn on the cob, popcorn and pemmican. In Mexico, the Spanish observed Aztecs selling take-out foods like tamales, tortillas, and sauces in open marketplaces. The Pueblo people of the desert Southwest also made tortillas with beans and meat sauce fillings prepared much like the modern burrito we know today.[1]
Cuisine preceding the development of the modern taco, burrito, and enchilada was created by the Pre-Columbian Mesoamerican Aztec peoples of Mexico, who used tortillas to wrap foods, with fillings of chile sauce, tomatoes, mushrooms, squash, and avocados. Spanish missionaries like Bernardino de Sahagún wrote about Aztec cuisine, describing the variety of tortillas and their preparation, noting that the Aztecs not only used corn in their tortillas, but also squash and amaranth, and that some varieties used turkey, eggs, or honey as a flavoring.[2]
[edit] Development in Mexico
The word "burrito" appears in the 1895 Diccionario de Mejicanismos, where it is identified as a regional term from Guanajuato and defined as "Tortilla arrollada, con carne ú otra cosa dentro, que en Yucatán llaman coçito, i en Cuernavaca i en Mejico, taco" (A rolled tortilla with meat or other ingredients inside, called 'coçito' in Yucatan and 'taco' in the city of Cuernavaca and in Mexico CIty).[3]
The word burrito means "little donkey" in Spanish, coming from burro, which means "donkey". The name burrito possibly derives from the appearance of a rolled up wheat tortilla, which vaguely resembles the ear of its namesake animal, or from bedrolls and packs that donkeys carried.[4] Mexican popular tradition tells the story of a man named Juan Mendez who used to sell tacos in a street stand, using a donkey as a transport for himself and the food, during the Mexican Revolution period (1910–1921) in the Bella Vista neighborhood in Ciudad Juárez.[citation needed] To keep the food warm, Mendez wrapped food in large home made flour tortillas inside individual napkins. He had a lot of success, and consumers came from other places around the Mexican border looking for the "food of the burrito" (i.e., "food of the little donkey"), the word they eventually adopted as the name for these large tacos.
[edit] Development in the United States
In 1923, Alejandro Borquez opened the Sonora cafe in Los Angeles, which later changed its name to the El Cholo Spanish Cafe.[5] Burritos first appeared on American restaurant menus at the El Cholo Spanish Cafe during the 1930s.[6] Burritos were mentioned in the U.S. media for the first time in 1934,[7] appearing in the Mexican Cookbook, a collection of regional recipes from New Mexico authored by historian Erna Fergusson.[8]
[edit] Varieties
[edit] Mexico
Burritos are a traditional food of Ciudad Juárez, a city in the northern Mexican state of Chihuahua, where people buy them at restaurants and roadside stands. Northern Mexican border towns like Villa Ahumada have an established reputation for serving burritos. Authentic Mexican burritos are usually small and thin, with flour tortillas containing only one or two ingredients: some form of meat, potatoes, rice, fish, beans, asadero cheese, chile rajas, or chile relleno.[9] Other types of ingredients may include barbacoa, mole, chopped hot dogs cooked in a tomato and chile sauce, refried beans and cheese, deshebrada, and (shredded slow-cooked flank steak). The deshebrada burrito also has a variation with chile colorado (mild to moderately hot) and salsa verde (very hot). The Mexican burrito may be a northern variation of the traditional taco de Canasta, which is eaten for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.[citation needed]
Although burritos are one of the most popular examples of Mexican cuisine outside of Mexico, in Mexico they are only popular in the northern part of the country. However, they are beginning to appear in some nontraditional venues in other parts of Mexico.
Wheat flour tortillas used in burritos are now often seen throughout much of Mexico (possibly due to these areas being less than optimal for growing maize), despite at one time being peculiar to northwestern Mexico, the Southwestern US Mexican American community, and Pueblo Indian tribes.
Burritos are commonly called tacos de harina (wheat flour tacos) in central and southern Mexico and burritas (feminine variation, with 'a') in northern-style restaurants outside of northern Mexico proper. A long and thin fried burrito similar to a chimichanga is prepared in the state of Sonora and vicinity, and is called a chivichanga.[10]
[edit] United States
See also: Cuisine of the United States
Wet burrito style
The most common style of the burrito in the United States is not as common in Mexico. Typically, American style burritos are larger than Mexican ones, and stuffed with more ingredients than the principal meat or vegetable filling. Pinto or black beans, rice (with cilantro and lime or Mexican style), guacamole, salsas, cheese, and sour cream are frequently added.
A wet (or enchilada style) burrito is smothered in a red chili sauce similar to enchilada sauce with melted shredded cheese on top. It is typically eaten off a plate with a fork and knife, rather than hand held. When served in a Mexican restaurant in the U.S., a melted cheese covered burrito is typically called a burrito suizo (suizo meaning Swiss, an adjective used in Spanish to indicate dishes topped with cheese or cream).
Some cities, such as San Diego and San Francisco, have local burrito styles.
[edit] San Diego
The Southern California style of burrito has been described as "austere" and "simple".[11] A carne asada burrito in San Diego, for example, can consist of chunks of carne asada and guacamole,[12] or carne asada, guacamole, and pico de gallo salsa.[13] One may also encounter non-traditional, "healthy" burrito fillings such as eggplant.[14]
Contents of a California Burrito from San Diego.
The California burrito, a San Diego-area specialty,[15] consists of chunks of carne asada meat, French fries, cheese, and either pico de gallo, sour cream, or guacamole (or some combination of these three).[16][17] The ingredients are similar to those used in the carne asada fries dish, and it is considered a staple of the local cuisine of San Diego, California.[18] With its merging of French fries with more traditional burrito fillings, the California burrito is an example of fusion border food.[14] Although it has been theorized that the California burrito, as it is now known originated in San Diego sometime in the 1980s, the first do entation of a burrito in its style can be found in a 1995 article in the Albuquerque Tribune.[19]
[edit] San Francisco
Main article: San Francisco burrito
The origins of the San Francisco burrito can be traced back to Mission District taquerias of the 1960s. Other theories state the original San Francisco burritos began with farmworkers in the fields of the Central Valley,[20] or with miners of the 19th century.[4] In 1961, Febronio Ontiveros began offering the first retail burrito in San Francisco at El Faro (The Lighthouse), a corner grocery store on Folsom Street. Ontiveros is credited with inventing the "super burrito" style leading to the early development of the "San Francisco style". This innovation involved adding rice, sour cream and guacamole to the standard meat, bean and cheese burrito. El Faro got its start when firemen from a nearby station requested sandwiches, which Ontiveros was unable to make. Instead, Ontiveros offered the firemen burritos. Large tortillas were unavailable in the early 1960s, so three six-inch tortillas were used to hold the filling. Ontiveros sold the burritos for one US dollar.[20][21]
The San Francisco burrito emerged as a regional culinary movement during the 1970s and 1980s. The typical San Francisco burrito is produced on a steam table assembly line, and is characterized by a large stuffed tortilla, wrapped in aluminum foil, which can include variations on different ingredients. The popularity of San Francisco-style burritos has grown locally, with Mission Street taquerias like El Farolito, and nationally with chains such as Moe's Southwest Grill, Chipotle Mexican Grill,[22] Illegal Pete's, Freebirds World Burrito, Qdoba, and Barberitos. In 1995, World Wrapps opened in San Francisco's Marina District, bringing a burrito-inspired sandwich wrap style to the restaurant industry.[23]
[edit] Breakfast burrito
The breakfast burrito, a variety of American breakfast, is composed of breakfast items wrapped inside a flour tortilla. This style was invented and popularized in several different regional American cuisines, most notably New Mexican cuisine, Southwestern cuisine, and Tex-Mex. Southwestern breakfast burritos may include scrambled eggs, potatoes, onions, chorizo, guisado, or bacon.[24] Tia Sophia's, a Mexican café in Santa Fe, New Mexico, claims to have invented the original breakfast burrito in 1975, filling a rolled tortilla with bacon and potatoes, served wet with chili and cheese.[25] Fast food giant McDonald's introduced their version in the late 1980s, and by the 1990s, more fast food restaurants caught on to the style, with Taco Bell, Sonic, and Carl's Jr. offering breakfast burritos on their menus.
[edit] Others
A burrito bowl is a burrito or fajita served without the tortilla, with the fillings placed in a bowl, with a layer of rice at the bottom. Its establishment can be traced to the beginning of the low carb fad in the early 2000s.[citation needed] It is not to be confused with a taco salad, which has a foundation of lettuce inside a fried tortilla. The burrito bowl is found in some form at many national Mexican food chain restaurants.
A chimichanga is a deep-fried burrito popular in Southwestern and Tex-Mex cuisines, and in the Mexican states of Sinaloa and Sonora.[citation needed]
[edit] Research
Taco Bell research chef Anne Albertine experimented with grilling burritos to enhance portability. This grilling technique allowed large burritos to remain sealed without spilling their contents.[26] This is a well known cooking technique used by some San Francisco taquerias and Northern Mexico burrito stands. Traditionally, grilled burritos are cooked on a comal (griddle).
Bean burritos, which are high in protein and low in saturated fat have been touted for their health benefits. Black bean burritos are also a good source of dietary fiber and phytochemicals.[27]
[edit] See also
[edit] References
- ^ Keoke, Emory Dean; Kay Marie Porterfield (2001). "Snack foods, American Indian". Encyclopedia of American Indian Contributions to the World: 15,000 Years of Inventions and Innovations. New York: Facts On File, Inc..
- ^ Keoke, Emory Dean; Kay Marie Porterfield (2001). "Tortillas, American Indians and". Encyclopedia of American Indian Contributions to the World: 15,000 Years of Inventions and Innovations. New York: Facts On File, Inc..
- ^ Ramos y Duarte, Féliz (1895). Diccionario de Mejicanismos. Imprenta de Eduardo Dublan.
- ^ a b Duggan, Tara. (Apr. 29, 2001). The Silver Torpedo. San Francisco Chronicle.
- ^ Shindler, Merrill (February 2001). "Comfort Food". Los Angeles Business Journal. Archived from the original on 2007-10-11.
- ^ Smith, Andrew F. (2004). The Oxford Encyclopedia of Food and Drink in America. 1. Oxford University Press. p. 171. ISBN 0195154371.
- ^ Smith, Andrew F. (1999). "Tacos, Enchiladas and Refried Beans: The Invention of Mexican-American Cookery". In Mary Wallace Kelsey and ZoeAnn Holmes. Cultural and Historical Aspects of Foods. Corvallis: Oregon State University. pp. 183–203.
- ^ Smith, Andrew F. (2007). The Oxford Companion to American Food and Drink. Oxford University Press. p. 75. ISBN 0195307968.
- ^ Franz, Carl; Lorena Havens (2006). The People's Guide to Mexico. Avalon Travel Publishing. p. 379. ISBN 1566917115.
- ^ Bayless, Rick and Deann Groen Bayless. (1987). Authentic Mexican: Regional Cooking from the Heart of Mexico. Morrow Cookbooks. p. 142.ISBN 0-688-04394-1
- ^ Newberry, Jan. The hunt for the best burrito. Sunset Magazine. Retrieved 2010-11-24.
- ^ Leonard, James. University of San Diego Off the Record. p. 12.
- ^ Weisbrod, Justin (2008-03-18). "Burritology 101: What lies beneath the tortilla". The Daily Aztec. Retrieved 2010-11-24.
- ^ a b Ryan, Richard (Winter 2003). "Is it border cuisine, or merely a case of NAFTA indigestion?". Journal for the Study of Food and Society 6 (2): 21–30.
- ^ Arellano, Gustavo (2010-06-17). "The California Challenge at Pepe's". OC Weekly. Retrieved 2010-11-24.
- ^ Lee, Mike (2009-07-13). "Burritos aren't safe on their plate". San Diego Union-Tribune. Retrieved 2010-11-24.
- ^ Hiss, Mark. Frommer's San Diego 2011. p. 13.
- ^ See for example: Berkmoes, Ryan; Sara Benson (2009). "California Iconic Trips: A Burrito Odyssey". California Trips. Lonely Planet. ISBN 1741797276.
- ^ Gustavo Arellano (13 May 2011). "When Did the California Burrito Become the California Burrito?". OC Weekly. Retrieved 22 June 2011.
- ^ a b Roemer, John (1993-05-05). "Cylindrical God". SF Weekly.
- ^ Addison, Bill (September 13, 2006). "In search of the transcendent taqueria / Our critic puts 85 beloved Bay Area burrito joints to the test". San Francisco Chronicle.
- ^ Slodysko, Brian (2008-06-25). "Chipotle serves up free burritos and drinks". Lancaster Eagle-Gazette. Retrieved 2008-06-28.[dead link]
- ^ Hanson, Gayle M.B. (1996-12-02). "It's a Wrap! California offers America the next food craze". Insight on the News. Retrieved 2007-04-25.
- ^ Cheek, Lawrence. (Oct, 2001). Rise and shine - breakfast - Recipe. Sunset.
- ^ Anderson, Judith (1998-05-24). "What's Doing In; Santa Fe". The New York Times. Retrieved 2007-08-18.
- ^ Crosby, Olivia. (Fall, 2002). You're a What? Research Chef. Occupational Outlook Quarterly. Vol. 46, Num. 3.
- ^ The University of Pennsylvania Health System. Breakfast, Dinner or Anytime Burrito. Adapted from the Cancer Nutrition Information, LLC. Archive URL: Mar 25, 2006.
[edit] Further reading and resources
Wikibooks Cookbook has a recipe/module on Burrito
Wikimedia Commons has media related to: Burrito
- Aft, Lawrence S. (2000). Work Measurement and Methods Improvement. Wiley-IEEE. ISBN 0471370894.
- Ellman, Mark; Barbara Santos (2003). Maui Tacos Cookbook. Pendulum Publishing. ISBN 0965224333.
- Fox, Peter (1998-07-02). "Burrito Search" (Real Media). All Things Considered. National Public Radio.
- Fox, Peter (1998-07-17). "Burrito Odyssey" (Real Media). All Things Considered. National Public Radio.
- Fox, Peter (1998-07-31). "Burrito" (Real Media). All Things Considered. National Public Radio.
- Fox, Peter (1998-08-12). "Burrito Trail" (Real Media). All Things Considered. National Public Radio.
- Fox, Peter (1998-09-03). "End of the Burrito Trail" (Real Media). All Things Considered. National Public Radio.
- Fox, Peter (1998-11-04). "Burritos: A Search For Beginnings". Food (The Washington Post): pp. E.01.
- Gold, Jonathan (2000). Counter Intelligence: Where to Eat in the Real Los Angeles. Macmillan. ISBN 0312267231.
- Johnson, Lisa (2006). Mind Your X's and Y's: Satisfying the 10 Cravings of a New Generation of Consumers. Free Press. ISBN 0743277503.
- Sparks, Pat; Barbara Swanson (1993). Tortillas!. Macmillan. ISBN 0312089120.
- Thomsen, David; Derek Wilson (1998). Burritos! Hot on the Trail of the Little Burro. Gibbs Smith Publishers. ISBN 0-87905-835-8.
- Young, Marc (2005-02-25). "Bringing the Burrito to Berlin". Culture & Lifestyle. Deutsche Welle. Retrieved 2008-02-18.
Categories: Mexican cuisine | Tortilla-based dishes | Cuisine of the Southwestern United States | Tex-Mex cuisine | American cuisine | New Mexican cuisine | Street food
Who is David Robinson...
and when Tim wasn't playing with a HOF bigman he was playing with one of the best point guard and 2 guards in the NBA at that time in Tony and Manu...so Tim had all the help he needed.
and another thing...those Laker teams were built around Shaq not Kobe and Kobe still dominated Duncan...Kobe's stats as 2nd option is better than Duncan's as 1st option.
Go figure.
Kobe
his
?
REally the debate needs to be put in context. the previous thread, the one that led to this one ...posed the question of knowing what we know now who would we choose to start a franchise with. Then we started talking about who has had the greater career. in BOTH cases I take Kobe narrowly over Duncan even though I freely admit both cases are close, especially the "start a franchise" argument ...
As for the Duncan over Shaq and hakeem we ALL know at the peak or prime Shaq is more dominant than either duncan or Hakeem because both are small centers and duncan is supposedly a PF ... but when we look at their careers both Shaq and hakeem dominate Duncan in points, rebounds and blocks.
The thing that gives duncan the edge in my opinion is the rings ...those that cant see that are foolish. Shaq and hakeem were more dominat scorers. hakeem was a better defender. Both were superior athletes. Post moves Duncan and Hakeem have moves that shaq can only dream of ...
So when you talk about the 3 best big man post Kareem (I never saw Wilt) I give duncan the edge BECAUSE Of his rings ...if yall insist rings dont matter ... than Tim may only edge Malone ...as a big man. if we look just at their numbers etc.
BTW the only reason I think it's so close because Tim's Final performances are better, and more consistently dominate than Kobe's. If not for that this argument would not be as close.
I dont get why anyone sees it as some type of insult, that Kobe is ahead of Duncan. I never saw it that way in 2007 when Duncan was STILL better than Kobe. They are two of the best players since MJ and i would argue they are actually the two best, career wise with Hakeem and shaq just slightly below.
Some of yall need to take some of the emotions out of your argument, it comes across childish it's just sportstalk it's not like anything we see here will ultimately decide this debate ...
He even came out and said who he is and people still talk to this troll as if he is a real Laker fan.
Tim destroys Kobe in career accolades and advanced metrics. He has more Finals MVPs, more regular season MVPs, ROY, and the only player in NBA history to be selected both All-NBA and All-Defensive Teams during each of his first 13 seasons. We're talking about an individual matchup here so whose coattails Kobe road to 7 Finals appearances is irrelevant because for one, he was not the #1 option on 3 of those teams and that weighs heavily in determining who is better because he had the most dominant player ever in his prime commanding triple teams in the paint, allowing Bryant to operate more freely in on the wings, and with elite shooters like Fisher and Horry that team was tough as to defend.
I guarantee you give Kobe Bryant the players Tim has had over his career and he has ZERO championships. You really think young Kobe is winning with old David? Is he really winning 3 les with Ginobili as his best teammate? How about with Elson/Nesterovic/Oberto/Mohammed/Bonner manning the middle for him?
Yeah, no he doesn't win any les.
Like I said, Tim has him beat in accolades. The only thing Kobe has is more points on tier efficiency.
And performances in the Finals DO MATTER. Everyone is ting on LeBron for choking versus Dallas, and that is definitely going to taint his legacy because no one give a how he played like a beast the rest of the playoffs.
Duncan dominated on the biggest stage, something Kobe has yet to do.
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