Better Small Forward: Larry Bird or Scottie Pippen?

[LkrFan]

LkrFan is not only a certified re but he's reaching for anything he can right now. It's okay guy, just keep being the Laker fan on ST no one gives a about.

but you keep trying to clown so I guess one person on ST gives a about me.

[stretch]

lol someone disagrees with you



the steal right in front of Jordan's face at the 1:54 mark was pretty nice, imo

Bird blocking Pippen's shot and then blocking Jordan's follow at the 2:06 was pretty neat too.

neat, he could get steals and blocks during an era of undisciplined shooting and passing.

could he stay in front of his man consistently though? I strongly doubt it.

[Killakobe81]

Pippen was in MJ's massive shadow and does not get the props he deserved. Bird is a better shooter, but in my mind that's it. Pip - not MJ - took on the opposing best perimeter player more often than not. This allowed MJ to score at will. Pip was their PG too (not Hodges, Paxon, or Kerr).

People that saw him in Portland and H-Town saw him past his prime. Pip in his prime would shut down his man on the regular. Very underrated.

Ring smack time... 6>3. Before anyone comes up with some bull MJ argument consider this: Bird played on a HOF frontline with a HOF PG. Yet Pip still had more rings (also MJ HASN't won without him).

agreed that some of Pip's game was in MJ's shadow and as much love as MJ gets defensively ...Pippen was the better defender and took on those challenges so MJ could be the dominant scorer.

BUT Bird is STILL a better player and only people that did not see Bird in his prime could make this case or are biased against Bird. As great as a defender as pippen was when Bird was on... pippen wouldnt of been able to stop him without fouling... Bird could not stop pippen either but Pip was not a scorer in that class ...

[dirk4mvp]

pointing out your certified re ation doesn't mean anyone gives a about you.

[LkrFan]

yeah but Pippen has 3 more rings

Yep, you give a about me alright...you're a certified pre-owned got just like I thought.

[dirk4mvp]

Terrible. You're hurting ST every time you decide to hit reply.

[LkrFan]

agreed that some of Pi's game was in MJ's shadow and as much love as MJ gets defensively ...Pippen was the better defender and took on those challenges so MJ could be the dominant scorer.

BUT Bird is STILL a better player and only people that did not see Bird in his prime could make this case or are biased against Bird. As great as a defender as pippen was when Bird was on... pippen wouldnt of been able to stop him without fouling... Bird could not stop pippen either but Pip was not a scorer in that class ...

Agreed, but... MJ goes to play baseball and is replaced by a SG scrub. Bulls win like 57 games. Who was their leader? Pip of course.

Bird was a great player and I hated him as a Laker fan, but I still respected his game. However, if he lost even one of his two HOF front court teammates I highly doubt the Celtics have the same success without Parish or McHale that the Bulls had without MJ. This speaks volumes in Pip's favor tbh.

[Blake]

neat, he could get steals and blocks during an era of undisciplined shooting and passing.

right, he played defense.

the "yeah but he played in this era" argument is always a win.

could he stay in front of his man consistently though? I strongly doubt it.

I saw him play enough to say yes but if someone has a poster of Dominique teabagging him, it wouldn't shock me.

Definitely would never say "Bird couldn't defend worth a " though....That's just ignorant.

[Monostradamus]

right, he played defense.

true. just not all that well.

[stretch]

amare stoudemire = great defender

gotcha

[LnGrrrR]

I don't think anyone is arguing that Bird is a lockdown defender.

I think people are arguing that Bird wasn't so bad on defense that it doesn't make up for all the other areas where Bird > Pippen.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Bird was like Manu in that he did so many little things to help his team win, a lot of which doesn't show up in the boxscore. He was a flat-out winner, plain and simple, 1st option on offense, team leader. Pippen was good, bordering on great, but he wasn't in Bird's league.

Only a fool would choose Pippen over Bird.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Well, technically, he was in Bird's league, if we're talking about the NBA.

[Blake]

true. just not all that well.

just well enough to win some MVPs.

[Blake]

gotcha

no you don't.

[stretch]

just well enough to win some MVPs.

so did Steve Nash.

Steve Nash = defensive stalwort, according to blake

[Blake]

Amare Stoudemire = Larry Bird, according to stretch

[stretch]

Amare Stoudemire = Larry Bird, according to stretch

great in comparison

[Blake]

agreed. superb choice to be the Bird heir apparent

[Booharv]

Exaggeration. Bird wasn't a great defender, not in Pippen's class, but he wasn't a turnstile.

Agreed. His defense has always been underrated. Most books on basketball contain a section or passage to help dispel this myth that he was some kind of complete scrub on that end of the floor. No one pays attention.

[JoeTait75]

When I think of players who don't play defense I think of guys who don't even try on that end- Mo Williams, for example. Bird didn't have the sheer athleticism to be a great man-on-man defender but he was certainly out there trying. He also had great anticipation which helped him get steals.

I also think there's a tendency to look at scoring totals from the '80s and come to the conclusion that the teams and players from that era didn't play any defense. Teams just played at a different pace.

[JoeTait75]

lol isn't that the same logic Hollinger and Bill Simmons used when arguing that the SSOL Suns weren't bad on defense?

You tell me. I don't crib from Hollinger or Simmons.

I just find it hard to believe that 23 out of 23 NBA teams during the '80s were terrible defensively.

Also, having watched the mid-90s Cavaliers I'm pretty sure that low PPG allowed does not necessarily = good defense. Sometimes you just take the air out of the ball. I'm assuming it works the other way as well.