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  1. #51
    Spur-taaaa TDMVPDPOY's Avatar
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    wtf was wrong with rodman? he was good as a piston b4 comin to the spurs, then with the bulls also

    how come he couldnt play like this when he was a spur?

  2. #52
    Drive for Five! ambchang's Avatar
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    Wiltvwas the Shaq of his era

    Rodman outrebounded much bigger players, and the likes of Olajuwon, Ewing, Robinson, etc...
    I would not go into strict per game averages, and would rather look into pace and available rebounds. If there were 50 rebounds available, and one guy grabbed 20 of them, that is much more impressive as a guy who grabbed 25 rebounds when there were 100 available. As a rebounder, you can only grabbed what's missed.

    I am not going to look into every ingle season, but when Wilt averaged his 27.2 rebounds, there was an average of 148 rebounds a game, which meant he averaged about 18.5% of available rebounds.

    Rodman otoh, played in an era where games have around 80 rebounds a game. He had a peak of 18.7 in his peak, or 23% of all available rebounds. That is a ridiculous number however you slice it.

    I agree that rodman has an advantage because that is all he does, but as a rebounder, he has no equal.

  3. #53
    Drive for Five! ambchang's Avatar
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    wtf was wrong with rodman? he was good as a piston b4 comin to the spurs, then with the bulls also

    how come he couldnt play like this when he was a spur?
    He lost it with the pistons after the team was no longer a contender, he was very destructive then already.

    People gave Jordan a lot of credit for putting rOdman in line, but based on his hof speech, it seems Jackson should take more of the credit.

  4. #54
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    I'd be a little cautious about comparing Wilt and Rodman on sheer per game averages. When Wilt was piling up his biggest rebounding numbers, teams were averaging well over 100 FGA per game and were shooting abysmal percentages. In 1960-61, teams averaged about 110 FGA/gm and the league (collectively) shot .415 from the field. That leaves a whole lot of rebounds to be had -- well more than 120 rebounds per game.

    In 1993-94, Rodman's first year with the Spurs, teams were taking about 84 shots per game and making about 47% of those shots. That leaves about 90 rebounds per game, about 30 fewer rebounding opportunities per game than Wilt had.

    I'm not necessarily disputing the basic conclusion, but Rodman didn't have the kind of rebounding opportunities that Wilt did. I don't think you can just ignore that in this sort of an argument.

    Expressed as a percentage of all available rebounds in a game, I'd be shocked if Rodman's numbers weren't better than Wilt's.
    Exactly this. The stat to look at is rebounding percentage or rebound rate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebound_rate). In that category Rodman is the top in NBA history. Basically when he was on the floor he grabbed the highest percentage of available rebounds.

  5. #55
    Get Refuel! FromWayDowntown's Avatar
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    Exactly this. The stat to look at is rebounding percentage or rebound rate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebound_rate). In that category Rodman is the top in NBA history. Basically when he was on the floor he grabbed the highest percentage of available rebounds.
    Be careful about using that statistic too much, if only because the available resources tend to only go back to about 1967-68 (that's where basketball-reference stops with calculations of rebounding rate). For the years that it has been calculated, Rodman laps the field. But we don't have those calculations done for the years when Chamberlain and Russell were beasting on the glass. My guess is that the volume of available rebounds during that time will reduce their rates and that Rodman's rate would be higher. But without that calculation, it's just a guess.

  6. #56
    Don't believe the hype... ChuckD's Avatar
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    I'd be a little cautious about comparing Wilt and Rodman on sheer per game averages. When Wilt was piling up his biggest rebounding numbers, teams were averaging well over 100 FGA per game and were shooting abysmal percentages. In 1960-61, teams averaged about 110 FGA/gm and the league (collectively) shot .415 from the field. That leaves a whole lot of rebounds to be had -- well more than 120 rebounds per game.

    In 1993-94, Rodman's first year with the Spurs, teams were taking about 84 shots per game and making about 47% of those shots. That leaves about 90 rebounds per game, about 30 fewer rebounding opportunities per game than Wilt had.

    I'm not necessarily disputing the basic conclusion, but Rodman didn't have the kind of rebounding opportunities that Wilt did. I don't think you can just ignore that in this sort of an argument.

    Expressed as a percentage of all available rebounds in a game, I'd be shocked if Rodman's numbers weren't better than Wilt's.
    Well, if that 90 available boards is a representative sample, I'll back Wilt against Rodman's career 13.1/90. I mean, even if Wilt's available boards were a ridiculous 150, that's still 23.9/150. I also think there is an undetermined variable: in Wilt's games, there were likely fewer available boards than the normal amount for his era. He took a load of shots in those games, and scored a lot at a very high percentage.

  7. #57
    Get Refuel! FromWayDowntown's Avatar
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    Meh, his first 5 years in the league, Chamberlain never shot better than 53% from the field. In fact, it was only when his shot attempts went down that the Dipper's shooting percentage went up:

    1959-60 -- 2311 FGA (32.1/gm); .461
    1960-61 -- 2457 FGA (31.1/gm); .509 (league leader)
    1961-62 -- 3159 FGA (39.5/gm); .506
    1962-63 -- 2770 FGA (34.6/gm); .528 (league leader)
    1963-64 -- 2298 FGA (28.7/gm); .524
    1964-65 -- 2083 FGA (28.5/gm); .510 (league leader)
    1965-66 -- 1990 FGA (25.2/gm); .540 (league leader)
    1966-67 -- 1150 FGA (14.2/gm); .683 (league leader)
    1967-68 -- 1377 FGA (16.8/gm); .595 (league leader)
    1968-69 -- 1099 FGA (13.6/gm); .583 (league leader)
    1969-70 -- 277 FGA (18.9/gm); .568 (only played in 12 games)
    1970-71 -- 1226 FGA (15.0/gm); .545
    1971-72 -- 764 FGA (9.3/gm); .649 (league leader)
    1972-73 -- 586 FGA (7.1/gm); .727 (league leader)

    Thus, when Wilt was jacking up an unlimited number of shots per night, he was missing a whole lot -- in 1961-62, he was missing almost 20 shots per game by himself; in 1962-63, he was missing more than 15 per game by himself.

  8. #58
    Spur-taaaa TDMVPDPOY's Avatar
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    during wilts era, how come its only him and russell who avg +20rpg, did any other big avg thsoe sort of rebs...if not then it clearly shows how weak the league was back them, men playin among boys

  9. #59
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    This guy makes some good points http://skepticalsports.com/?p=331 in the comparison of Rodman and Wilt/Russell. He argues even though rebound rate wasn't always available you can estimate it based on extreme cases. Another factor is that Wilt averaged close to 48 while Rodman averaged less than 35 minutes per game. Rodman no doubt could have played more minutes and still have been effective. People say he was one of the best conditioned athletes ever. He would go on an exercise bike for more than half an hour after games.

  10. #60
    "He's Manu Ginobili." senorglory's Avatar
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    I remember that WOAI used to have a weekly Spurs show with a player coming on during an off-day to talk about the team. Frequently, in that season, that player was Sean Elliott (unsurprisingly, perhaps -- it may have actually been called the Sean Elliott Show or something like that) and he would always mention what he called "The Prayer Wars" that would go on between Avery Johnson and David Robinson. He would tell stories about one trying to outdo the other with a pre-game prayer. You got the sense that some of the guys were receptive to it, that others played along, but that there were still others who were really turned off by it. For whatever it's worth, I seem to recall Jack Haley (in his initial performance as Rodman's babysitter) basically corroborating that story and making mention of the fact that he and Dennis were really turned off by the whole thing.

    I don't know that there was full-on effort to convert anyone, but with David Robinson, Avery Johnson, and Terry mings in that room, there were some fairly vocal spokesmen for God hanging around.
    oh well. disappointing, but still one of my all-time favorite sports athletes.

  11. #61
    Veteran Gervin44Silas13's Avatar
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    its ALWAYS pissed me off that the Spurs were labeled soft 92-94

    we got Rodman and we bested the best record in 1995....and we should have won the le that year.....

    But is the city gonna blame Hill Robinson or Rodman???

    Rodman got the blame for everything how ty of that facy due to early in the 1998 season this city wanted Robinson Traded
    Everybody loved Rodman but by the end he was hated....that sucks....even getting Sean ****** back wasn't enough

    instead Rodman helped the Bulls get 3 more rings.....that ing sucked!!!!


    1995 1996 NBA Champions in a * alternate world

  12. #62
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    ^ Baileys

  13. #63
    Chopper Ed Helicopter Jones's Avatar
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    The Spurs lost the 1995 WCF in the last minute of Game 1. It was a close game, but Robinson split a pair of FT at around the 1 minute mark, the Spurs got a stop -- a steal, actually -- and Sean Elliott got fouled on the break and missed both of his FT. Instead of being up 3 or 4, which they should have been, the Spurs were up 1.

    I think Rodman basically decided he was done after Elliott's missed FT. He appeared to be the guy who was supposed to be guarding Horry (who spent most of that play hanging out above the 3 point arc and then took a dribble and two steps inside the arc to hit his game-winner -- un-Horry like, in retrospect); Horry, however, was all alone for most of that play. Rodman made a relatively half-hearted effort to drop down and get a steal after the initial play set up and then hung out in the middle for the rest of the play. It made some sense, given that Hakeem threatened the middle as the clock wound down, but when Hakeem found Horry all alone, Rodman was standing almost on the baseline and his man was above the arc and above the free throw line. Someone else should have rotated, but nobody did. Horry hit the shot, the Rockets stole Game 1, Rodman was mentally done, and the series was basically over.

    It wasn't all Rodman's fault, but it would be ridiculous to say that he was blameless.

    Rodman was famous for just checking out of games. That became more and more evident as his career wound down, ending with him sitting on the court for the Mavs. Jordan's fire is the only thing that kept Rodman's head in the game during his Bulls stint. Dude was a nut job...the anti-Spur.

  14. #64
    Get Refuel! FromWayDowntown's Avatar
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    This might have been posted somewhere else, but for those who like to revisit the Rodman issue, here are flu or partial videos of the 1995 West Finals:

    Game 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=savgYPCfKqg

    Game 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjwmoiJuWho

    Game 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Reo9p3g5CaU

    Game 4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXI9V8v1_fY

    Game 5: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x30y9CUXRyU

    Game 6: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FO-A8Yp3Xz0

  15. #65
    No Spurs No DrunkTXLabrat's Avatar
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    If Jordan's fire is what got Rodman rings, what does that say about David Robinson?

  16. #66
    Soft Like Twinkie Filling Juggity's Avatar
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    If Jordan's fire is what got Rodman rings, what does that say about David Robinson?
    Probably that Robinson wasn't enough of a nutcase to communicate with a nutcase. Jordan surely was, though.

  17. #67
    Veteran Gervin44Silas13's Avatar
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    David should have just let Rodman do his thing

    and kept religion out of it!

    If Jordan's fire is what got Rodman rings, what does that say about David Robinson?

  18. #68
    Unstoppable TDomination's Avatar
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    This might have been posted somewhere else, but for those who like to revisit the Rodman issue, here are flu or partial videos of the 1995 West Finals:

    Game 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=savgYPCfKqg

    Game 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjwmoiJuWho

    Game 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Reo9p3g5CaU

    Game 4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXI9V8v1_fY

    Game 5: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x30y9CUXRyU

    Game 6: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FO-A8Yp3Xz0
    I watched the ending of game 1 just now. What a disgrace this fool is. Taking his shoes off with 6.5 seconds to go only down 1.

    On the previous defensive possession, David was trying to talk to him about some strategy as they were walking on to the court and you could see the 'I don't care' look on Rodmans face. And then he is the one who happens to leave Horry wide open. Idiot

    I was 9yrs old when these games happened and I remember being so upset when the spurs lost but I did not realize what was going on with Rodman. I mean not to the full extent

  19. #69
    99/03/05/07/14 Spurs Brazil's Avatar
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    This might have been posted somewhere else, but for those who like to revisit the Rodman issue, here are flu or partial videos of the 1995 West Finals:

    Game 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=savgYPCfKqg

    Game 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjwmoiJuWho

    Game 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Reo9p3g5CaU

    Game 4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXI9V8v1_fY

    Game 5: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x30y9CUXRyU

    Game 6: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FO-A8Yp3Xz0
    I have those games in my old VCR, my 2nd season as Spurs fan

  20. #70
    "We'll do it this time" Bartleby's Avatar
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    I watched the ending of game 1 just now. What a disgrace this fool is. Taking his shoes off with 6.5 seconds to go only down 1.

    On the previous defensive possession, David was trying to talk to him about some strategy as they were walking on to the court and you could see the 'I don't care' look on Rodmans face. And then he is the one who happens to leave Horry wide open. Idiot

    I was 9yrs old when these games happened and I remember being so upset when the spurs lost but I did not realize what was going on with Rodman. I mean not to the full extent
    Rodman cared more about his rebounding numbers than guarding his man, which was too bad for the Spurs because he could be a really pesky defender when he wanted to.

  21. #71
    Veteran BG_Spurs_Fan's Avatar
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    Rodman is such a disgrace. Didn't need to be reminded of this series, but couldn't help clicking those youtube links. Disgraceful idiot.

  22. #72
    Veteran Maddog's Avatar
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    Rodman cared more about his rebounding numbers than guarding his man, which was too bad for the Spurs because he could be a really pesky defender when he wanted to.
    It was particularly damning against the Rockets that year.
    First they had a PF who could hit threes and the 3 point line that season was shorter...

  23. #73
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    dat bump

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