Micron Promises to Break Through Memory Wall with New Technology

[Wild Cobra]

Not really. It's referred to as 12 inch industry-wide.

Obviously, you're not part of the industry, that's probably why you don't know what you're talking about. Nothing new there.

Then the industry is dumbing down since I was in the loop.

[ElNono]

Then the industry is dumbing down since I was in the loop.

I would argue that the industry lost dead weight.

[Wild Cobra]

I would argue that the industry lost dead weight.

You must be one of those metric deniers.

[ElNono]

You must be one of those metric deniers.

I come from a metric country. So, no. I just have a good idea when somebody is talking out of their ass.

[TinTin]

[Wild Cobra]

I come from a metric country. So, no. I just have a good idea when somebody is talking out of their ass.

I know your origins, but figured you must want to get rid of all traces.

[DMC]

There's no such thing as a 12" wafer. It's 300mm.

• 1-inch (25 mm)
• 2-inch (51 mm). Thickness 275 µm.
• 3-inch (76 mm). Thickness 375 µm.
• 4-inch (100 mm). Thickness 525 µm.
• 5-inch (130 mm) or 125 mm (4.9 inch). Thickness 625 µm.
• 150 mm (5.9 inch, usually referred to as "6 inch"). Thickness 675 µm.
• 200 mm (7.9 inch, usually referred to as "8 inch"). Thickness 725 µm.
• 300 mm (11.8 inch, usually referred to as "12 inch"). Thickness 775 µm.
• 450 mm ("18 inch"). Thickness 925 µm (expected).[12]

Industry talk. Not Google talk.

[DMC]

A prototype is a far cry different than doing 3d gates and using the small architecture together.

If you've ever read tech materiel for future development, then followed the timeline, it doesn't always pan out. I was in the forefront of 300mm design in 1995-1996. Look how long until it was finally used. We made a prototype machine and did 300mm process in late 1996. It was still some time. I also worked with a copper process in 1994 with Intel PTD.

I'll believe the process when I see it in production.

What machine?

[DMC]

Prototyping would probably be done with 150mm or 200mm equipment. When 200mm was dominant, I worked with an Intel skunkworks guy on 150mm equipment, prototyping a copper process. The CMP equipment was actually a 200mm platform, but with a 150mm head.

I highly doubt a fab would retool to prototype. A pilot line would be introduced in the line and would be walked through, unless a group like SVTC (formerly Sematech) took the contract, but then 150mm equipment doesn't have the ability to do narrow line widths or meet the .15u particle requirements, and most are not in class 1 cleanrooms.

Also, going from 150mm to 300mm isn't as easy as just changing recipes and tool sets. Some things don't transfer well. Too many costs involved in a pilot line that won't be anything like the production line.

[Wild Cobra]

I highly doubt a fab would retool to prototype. A pilot line would be introduced in the line and would be walked through, unless a group like SVTC (formerly Sematech) took the contract, but then 150mm equipment doesn't have the ability to do narrow line widths or meet the .15u particle requirements, and most are not in class 1 cleanrooms.

Also, going from 150mm to 300mm isn't as easy as just changing recipes and tool sets. Some things don't transfer well. Too many costs involved in a pilot line that won't be anything like the production line.

Sorry, but I know what happened in the past and I wasn't talking about a pilot line, but what happens before that. It isn't unlikely that some companies prototyping is done on 200mm. Most larger tools can be scaled down for smaller wafer sizes. Some older equipment is also partially modernized, saving R&D cost. I'm talking prototype equipment and process engineering. Not pilot lines. That comes later.

I have worked with SemaTech when I worked on prototype 300mm process equipment in 1996 as an Engineering Technician. Just looked them up. They are still SemaTech. They are not a single en y, but a consortium. Do you know what are you talking about?

SEMATECH News

[ElNono]

Size and process of the wafer don't really matter. AFAIK, most companies are using die-on-die manufacturing. Meaning each wafer is manufactured normally as a 2D IC, then diced, thinned, aligned, bonded and TSV connected. The actual assembling of the 3D layers is done as a post-process of die creation and before encapsulation. That allows the companies to keep using the current fabs normally, and just add an extra stage. A variation of this method is die-on-wafer, where the lower layer wafer is not diced while the upper layers are, and then the upper dies are bonded to the lower wafer, although I have not heard companies using this manufacturing method.

Other methods, like monolithic 3D manufacturing would require a new type of fab, and a method like wafer-on-wafer would result in lower yields.

[DMC]

Sorry, but I know what happened in the past and I wasn't talking about a pilot line, but what happens before that. It isn't unlikely that some companies prototyping is done on 200mm. Most larger tools can be scaled down for smaller wafer sizes. Some older equipment is also partially modernized, saving R&D cost. I'm talking prototype equipment and process engineering. Not pilot lines. That comes later.

I have worked with SemaTech when I worked on prototype 300mm process equipment in 1996 as an Engineering Technician. Just looked them up. They are still SemaTech. They are not a single en y, but a consortium. Do you know what are you talking about?

SEMATECH News

I know what I am talking about.

I specifically said "pilot line".

I know about Sematech. I didn't say Sematech closed. I said SVTC was formerly Sematech. SVTC occupies the fab that Sematech once occupied in Austin. I am well aware that Sematech still exists.

Tell me about your machine.

[Wild Cobra]

I know what I am talking about.

I specifically said "pilot line".

I know about Sematech. I didn't say Sematech closed. I said SVTC was formerly Sematech. SVTC occupies the fab that Sematech once occupied in Austin. I am well aware that Sematech still exists.

Tell me about your machine.

This is what came from the 300mm prototype:

SpeedFam-IPEC Unveils 300mm Momentum

IPEC didn't know how to keep the technology working they bought though. Those of us who knew it stayed in Portland.

IPEC to acquire Gaard Automation

It was the best job I ever had, saw the writing on the wall after IPEC purchased it. Left for a different job, and glad I did. About a year after I left, IPEC moved development and manufacturing to Phoenix.

This is what we were making when I left:

IPEC 776 AUTOMATED CMP TOOL

[DMC]

Cool.

[Wild Cobra]

[Wild Cobra]

Hybrid Memory Cube Moves Forward

[TDMVPDPOY]

fck these clowns are expensive....i stick to 3rd party compe ors

[Wild Cobra]

fck these clowns are expensive....i stick to 3rd party compe ors

That's not a simple process these cubes are undergoing. I'll bet they have several missions of dollars of research they have to recoup also.

3rd party compe ion...

Maybe, but unlikely. They would have to steal patented ideas.