Better Leader: Tim Duncan or David Robinson?

[ambchang]

Let's list their teammates of each HoF centre during their prime:

Bill Russell - Cousy, Sam Jones, wait, the guy has 8 HoF on his team during his prime
Wilt - Jerry West, Billy Cunningham, Hal Greer, Luke Jackson, Chet Walker, Elgin Baylor (well, sort of ...), Gail Goodrich
Bill Walton - Maurice Lucas, Lionel Hollins
Kareem Abdul Jabbar - Oscar Robertson, Magic Johnson, James Worthy, Byron Scott, Bob Dandridge
Hakeem Olajuwon - Clyde Drexler, Ralph Sampson, Kenny Smith, Vernon Maxwell, Otis Thorpe
Shaquille O'Neal - Penny Hardaway, Horace Grant, Kobe Bryant, Robert Horry
Tim Duncan - Manu Ginobili, Tony Parker, David Robinson, Bruce Bowen
David Robinson - Sean Elliott, Avery Johnson, Dennis Rodman, Terry mings, Rod Strickland

I mean, tough to say, they all have similar supporting casts. I mean, who wouldn't trade Sean Elliott for Kobe Bryant or Penny Hardaway? Dennis Rodman is obviously as good as Magic and Drexler. Terry mings is pretty much the same guy as Maurice Lucas, and Rod Strickland is a great teammate, like Jerry West or Gail Goodrich.

[Solid D]

I think they are both good leaders but in different ways. There is no doubt that the primary "leader" for the Spurs since the late '90s has been Gregg Popovich. He is an incredible leader of men. But getting back to David and Tim, David has been a leader in the community as well as on the basketball floor. I don't think he communicated as well on the floor as well as Timmy has grown to do. They have both been team Captains. With players like Avery "the Little General" on the floor, David's role wasn't to be the sole leader on the team. He also had Mario for a couple of years there. The same goes for Timmy...he hasn't always been the primary leader of the Spurs on the floor. There is no doubt, however that both have exhibited exemplary leadership with their fellow teammates. "On his own" (Popovich quote), David cut his vacation in Hawaii short to fly in to convince Tim to stay in SA back in July of 2000. That's a team leader. Duncan would do the same. They are both imperfect but good leaders. David has had some issues with some players, but then again, Timmy sometimes just flat ignores some of his fellow mates. Both Dave and Timmy have been very demanding of their teammates, just like Pop has been over the years. That's what good leaders do.

The real leader has been Pop, but in terms of serving as a great example for their teammates and fans, Timmy and The Admiral have both shined and have been franchise-savers. I don't see one being better than the other.

[jag]

Mangua read that Rodman didn't like Robinson's preaching to him when they played together, and ran with it.




Robinson's professing his faith in God didn't alienate teammates. Rodman is just a dumbass who couldn't take responsibility for his own willingness to quit trying when the chips were down. Saying Robinson's preaching influenced him to quit trying, or however he put it, is a copout from a guy with no character.

Pay me millions of dollars a year to play ball, and the team captain can tell me whatever he wants about religion/stock tips/self-help books/the cooking channel/checkers, whatever. Rodman has no balls otherwise he'd of just owned up that he acted like a spoiled child and quit on his team that post season.

Show me examples where Robinson wasn't a good leader. If anything he helped provide Duncan with the some of the tools he'd need to be the ultimate all-around player he's been in his career. Duncan credits Robinson with a lot of great mentoring early in his career. Robinson is largely responsible for the Spurs even being in San Antonio. His teams were incredibly successful in spite of the team having limited depth or talent prior to Duncan's arrival. If Robinson wasn't a leader he'd of been a guy with great stats on bad teams. His teams were consistent winners in the years before Duncan and that shows he had support from his team. All of his success came in spite of questionable coaches, lots of player turnover, and again, a limited supporting cast.

This thread was created to bash Robinson for his faith, plain and simple. Manuregua opens a thread with a religious chip on his shoulder, but has no real basis for any sort of real argument regarding Robinson's leadership skills. Just a chance for him to bash from a passive-aggressive viewpoint. I saw it, and sadly let myself get sucked into it anyway.

As I said, he should have just posted another anti-religious Club thread because that's all he's got. This thread was just a poorly veiled stab at religion. Weak.

[jag]

I think they are both good leaders but in different ways. There is no doubt that the primary "leader" for the Spurs since the late '90s has been Gregg Popovich. He is an incredible leader of men. But getting back to David and Tim, David has been a leader in the community as well as on the basketball floor. I don't think he communicated as well on the floor as well as Timmy has grown to do. They have both been team Captains. With players like Avery "the Little General" on the floor, David's role wasn't to be the sole leader on the team. He also had Mario for a couple of years there. The same goes for Timmy...he hasn't always been the primary leader of the Spurs on the floor. There is no doubt, however that both have exhibited exemplary leadership with their fellow teammates. "On his own" (Popovich quote), David cut his vacation in Hawaii short to fly in to convince Tim to stay in SA back in July of 2000. That's a team leader. Duncan would do the same. They are both imperfect but good leaders. David has had some issues with some players, but then again, Timmy sometimes just flat ignores some of his fellow mates. Both Dave and Timmy have been very demanding of their teammates, just like Pop has been over the years. That's what good leaders do.

The real leader has been Pop, but in terms of serving as a great example for their teammates and fans, Timmy and The Admiral have both shined and have been franchise-savers. I don't see one being better than the other.

Solid D. taking time out of his day to drop knowledge on everyone.

[Magua]

blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah

Good argument, duly noted.

[pjjrfan]

On the court Tim Duncan.
Off the court David Robinson. It's not a question of backbone for David, he just wasn't a basketball junky, gym rat whatever you want to call it but I would never define David's courage by his performances on a basketball court. There is a reason he is so highly regarded in and out of Basketball.

[xellos88330]

For my money, I don't see how it can't be Timmy. While David tried to lead through religious subjugation, Duncan's play did all the talking for him, and he single-handedly carried a franchise that previously had no backbone to 4 NBA les.

Thoughts?

You are stupid.

[joshdaboss]

who said anything about who got who a ring? all i say is bring Duncans 150 lb rookie ass against Robinson monster rookie body and DRob would have killed Timmy in every part of the game. Timmys footwork would have been against DR defense. DRob could have won a dunk contest.. i still love Timmy but DR would have pulled a Neal on him.

The point is Robinson is compared to Duncan.

[Magua]

You are stupid.

Nice profile pic. Seriously.

[xellos88330]

Nice profile pic. Seriously.

I know it is.

[le13]

Talking seriously,

David was the Team Leader in the mentality point of vue. Tim was and is the Franchise Player and best player and an example for all his teammates. He was and he is quite shy or reserved and this is a kind of "lack" to be a real team leader.

You can compare this duo with Rose-Noah. Noah is the team and spirit leader for the BULLS, Rose is the Franchise Player.

And as for today, Spurs do not have anymore a unique leader (As Robinson was).. The leadership is split between TD, TP and Manu..

[Magua]

Talking seriously,

David was the Team Leader in the mentality point of vue. Tim was and is the Franchise Player and best player and an example for all his teammates. He was and he is quite shy or reserved and this is a kind of "lack" to be a real team leader.

You can compare this duo with Rose-Noah. Noah is the team and spirit leader for the BULLS, Rose is the Franchise Player.

And as for today, Spurs do not have anymore a unique leader (As Robinson was).. The leadership is split between TD, TP and Manu..

I prefer team leaders who let their play do the talking. Tim did that in spades. David fell short in that department.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I prefer team leaders who let their play do the talking. Tim did that in spades. David fell short in that department.

lol

[Cane]

Whatever happened to John Basedow?

[Giuseppe]

I prefer team leaders who let their play do the talking. Tim did that in spades. David fell short in that department.

David was a girl born in a guy's body. It happens....Swords, a modern day example.

[kskonn]

I think they are both good leaders but in different ways. There is no doubt that the primary "leader" for the Spurs since the late '90s has been Gregg Popovich. He is an incredible leader of men. But getting back to David and Tim, David has been a leader in the community as well as on the basketball floor. I don't think he communicated as well on the floor as well as Timmy has grown to do. They have both been team Captains. With players like Avery "the Little General" on the floor, David's role wasn't to be the sole leader on the team. He also had Mario for a couple of years there. The same goes for Timmy...he hasn't always been the primary leader of the Spurs on the floor. There is no doubt, however that both have exhibited exemplary leadership with their fellow teammates. "On his own" (Popovich quote), David cut his vacation in Hawaii short to fly in to convince Tim to stay in SA back in July of 2000. That's a team leader. Duncan would do the same. They are both imperfect but good leaders. David has had some issues with some players, but then again, Timmy sometimes just flat ignores some of his fellow mates. Both Dave and Timmy have been very demanding of their teammates, just like Pop has been over the years. That's what good leaders do.

The real leader has been Pop, but in terms of serving as a great example for their teammates and fans, Timmy and The Admiral have both shined and have been franchise-savers. I don't see one being better than the other.

And this is why the orginizational machine has worked so well. So many teams suffer through star players running the franchise, when the coach can coach things work better.

[Strange Botwin]

Avery Johnson made David Robinson his over the course of 10 years.

Avery tried that on Tim, and he was handed a one way ticket to Denver on a silver platter.

Nobody bosses MERLIN!

[ducks]

it took 2 years for duncan to trust tp
is that a real leader?

[Cane]

Whatever happened to John Basedow?

[ambchang]

My trolling backfired and now I look like a complete idiot

We already know that, don't be too hard on yourself.

[Magua]

I think we all can agree that Tim Duncan wins this comparison going away.

[wunderkindepiphany]

No one is better than the other; they're just different. Both were fantastic leaders for the Spurs in their time.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

For my money, I don't see how it can't be Timmy. While David tried to lead through religious subjugation, Duncan's play did all the talking for him, and he single-handedly carried a franchise that previously had no backbone to 4 NBA les.

Thoughts?

We lost in 1995 because Rodman hyjacked the team, and Houston could double David because David had little support, while David had to single-cover Hakeem because of Kenny, Mad Max Mario Elie, Robert Horry and Sam Cassell. Remember those guys? It had FA to do with religion, and I'm an athiest (well, worshipper of the great Carbon Cycle, actually... )

Leadership in every meaning of the word = David Robinson.

SPOT.

ON.

Was over the moon when we traded John Salmons for Speedy, envisioned him easily leading us to the le.

He did in a way. He was crucial in the latter part of the 2003 season and filled valuable minutes with gold when TP struggled.

Creating a thread to bash on religion needs to be done in the Club.

His faith alienated teammates and cost the Spurs a le in 1995.

Mangua read that Rodman didn't like Robinson's preaching to him when they played together, and ran with it.

Robinson's professing his faith in God didn't alienate teammates. Rodman is just a dumbass who couldn't take responsibility for his own willingness to quit trying when the chips were down. Saying Robinson's preaching influenced him to quit trying, or however he put it, is a copout from a guy with no character.

Show me examples where Robinson wasn't a good leader. If anything he helped provide Duncan with the some of the tools he'd need to be the ultimate all-around player he's been in his career. Duncan credits Robinson with a lot of great mentoring early in his career. Robinson is largely responsible for the Spurs even being in San Antonio. His teams were incredibly successful in spite of the team having limited depth or talent prior to Duncan's arrival. If Robinson wasn't a leader he'd of been a guy with great stats on bad teams. His teams were consistent winners in the years before Duncan and that shows he had support from his team. All of his success came in spite of questionable coaches, lots of player turnover, and again, a limited supporting cast.

This thread was created to bash Robinson for his faith, plain and simple. Manuregua opens a thread with a religious chip on his shoulder, but has no real basis for any sort of real argument regarding Robinson's leadership skills. Just a chance for him to bash from a passive-aggressive viewpoint. I saw it, and sadly let myself get sucked into it anyway.

As I said, he should have just posted another anti-religious Club thread because that's all he's got. This thread was just a poorly veiled stab at religion. Weak.

Yup.

Robinson was responsible for saving the franchise in San Antonio. No Robinson no Spurs.

Yup.

He chased his teammates around with a bible, that's how.

You sure that wasn't the Lil' General? Just reacquaint yourself with the dross we had on the roster that year and went 62-20 with, and could have won it all if Hakeem didn't play at his absolute finest and those Houston shooters ever cooled off:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/1995.html

And thyen remind yourself of the quality Houston had:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/HOU/1995.html

Swap the supporting casts and we win it all that year.

[Magua]

Blaming '95 on Rodman is laughable. He was fighting both the Rockets and religious persecution.

[Calispursfan11]

Blaming '95 on Rodman is laughable. He was fighting both the Rockets and religious persecution.

He was being persecuted or subjugated by D-Rob's bible? Usually persecution applies to being part of a persecuted religion. Rodman was not religious enough for D-Rob to persecute as I recall. So I think you mean subjugation like you said originally.