Do you younger guys agree with this article?

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

One thing I don't get is how our generation is considered lazy and self-en led by baby boomers as if their generation was full of extremely hard working, driven people. The only difference is that our generation doesn't have factory jobs paying 50k a year for assembly line work a trained monkey can do. Baby boomers don't have a work ethic THAT much better than ours.

[mavs>spurs]

yeah the same opportunities that these guys grew up with simply aren't there anymore, that's why some of these boomers are so unsympathetic about the whole thing. but the reality is that there are only so many doctors, lawyers, engineers, store managers, mechanics, etc needed, and even if everyone on earth were of superior intelligence and earned a college degree there would still inevitably be unemployment because supply for all these positions would outweigh demand. "go to school and major in a real area of study, you ing lazy got!" simply isn't a good solution.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You rail against VY and others for making assumptions about you, then make assumptions about me.

Hypocritical much?

Before me, the company never paid bonuses, didnt offer health insurance and did not have a retirement program. It was an alley shop. Do you know what that phrase means?

I pay my Plant Manager (same one from the 3 Kings era) more than you make, trust me. Base salary: $80k. Bonuses always vary and are based on profit percentage, but in 2010 (which was one of our better years comparatively, but will be the low-water mark going forward), he made $115k. 2011 has been an absolutely outstanding year, he can fully expect to get a $20k bonus check this Christmas. He could damn near pay off his house in one year's work.

The foreman made ~$80k. The boys on the floor all make over $50k with overtime and bonuses. These guys on the floor are all under 30 years old, some without a high school diploma, some are convicts, almost all of them are from broken families full of drug addicts, violent deaths and dependance on welfare.

2 of these young guys are the bread winners in their family. They actually support their mothers and sister (+kids) on the wage I pay them.

Ive changed lives, Lumpkins. Ive changed entire families destinies (or fates, if you prefer). Ive touched dozens of people, given them applicable skills and watched them move on to bigger and better things, all while paying them an extremely good wage.

What in the ever-loving have you done, guy?

This is cute you are trying to make a life compe ion. I am not playing. sorry.

I am assumed that since you are using some form of cad that you are trying to hire engineers for QC and whatnot. Since the article did not mention the $50k, you did, and along with your desire to share your life story, I came to the conclusion that in your job hires you have had entry level folks come in asking for that type of money.

You did after all say that you laugh at them.

Thats why I don't share my personal life here. You chose to and I filled in the gaps but its not as if the stingy manager is a unusual occurrence.

And I am sorry an experienced engineering manager should make at least that much. I am well aware of industry standards so quit acting like that is some huge sum especially considering the output of your plant.

I am guessing the base salary of the guys on the floor is about ~$30k? Whooptie ing doo.

[vy65]

Lol you don't think life is a compe ion?

Lol critical thought.

[vy65]

I see all this potential, and I see it squandered. God damn it, an entire generation pumping gas, waiting tables – slaves with white collars. Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy we don't need. We're the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our great war is a spiritual war. Our great depression is our lives. We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars, but we won't. We're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very pissed off.

[MannyIsGod]

Life isn't a compe ion, Gordo Gecko.

[Stringer_Bell]

It's clear that if everyone had the drive and self-motivation, jobs would just magically appear.

Yea, thanks to the magic job dust. Too bad you and Hermain Cain smoked it all.


I, too, started reading the article, didn't feel it said anything special so I quit after the second page. I hate when women think they can write articles longer than two pages. -_-

[vy65]

why not?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

why not?

Time to wax philosophical.

Life certainly can be a struggle.

However when ones life only has meaning when compared to another's then it has no meaning at all.

[mingus]

With drive, commitment, a little luck and the willingness to completely and utterly disregard your personal life as whole, you will succeed.

+1

good story. this country is screwed because there's not enough people in it that've got drive, who are willing to go above and beyond. American exceptionalism is a thing of the past. too many lazy, complaining, en led people.

[Hungry farmer]

I'm too old for that crap.

[DarkReign]

Didnt read any responses beyond the ones I quoted and Fuzzy's last one.

I am out this thread. You win. Im a horrible person, you know best how things really are and should be. Enjoy yourselves.

[Th'Pusher]

Didnt read any responses beyond the ones I quoted and Fuzzy's last one.

I am out this thread. You win. Im a horrible person, you know best how things really are and should be. Enjoy yourselves.

in' Quitter.

[Borat Sagyidev]

This pertains to pretty much anything imo. I had a lively "debate" with a youngster about 2 years ago who claimed that she could debunk relativity. She was a 19-year old music major at that. That's what we have today, instant experts at pretty much anything.

Gotta love the You Tube generation. Just enough knowledge to be dangerous.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/...heoryfest.html

[ElNono]

good story. this country is screwed because there's not enough people in it that've got drive, who are willing to go above and beyond. American exceptionalism is a thing of the past. too many lazy, complaining, en led people.

91% of able bodied people do work, so I'm not sure where the lazy part comes from. That said 91% just can't all be at the top.

But, American exceptionalism is what brought us to this standard of living that's simply not compe ive with the rest of the world. So going away was bound to happen. And it probably won't come back until we're compe ive again.

[MannyIsGod]

Didnt read any responses beyond the ones I quoted and Fuzzy's last one.

I am out this thread. You win. Im a horrible person, you know best how things really are and should be. Enjoy yourselves.

Never known you to be one to pick up your ball and go home. I don't know if you read mine or not but I didn't mean any offense by it. I just don't think you really understood what the articles point was because what I got from it was completely different than what you did. If you read the le I think you'll notice its more in line with an idea that this generation has a moxy that has been absent from the previous one.

[ElNono]

Two interesting reads, imo, tangential to the this topic:

A Dose of Financial Reality

Unpaid student loans top $1 trillion

[ElNono]

As somebody commented somewhere else:

You think the housing collapse was bad? Just wait until you see what happens if THIS group starts going en masse into default. At least with houses, there is some collateral there. What are you going to foreclose on when little Johnny goes into default on his $100,000 loan debt because he can't find a job? You going to foreclose on and resell his worthless degree?

And, sadly, this is only going to get worse. Tuition has been going through the roof at universities in the U.S., even as wages for the jobs post-grads get afterwards have remained stagnant. The wages of parents and post-grads have stayed the same, but they're having to fork out more and more for tuition--driving them to even more debt. So it's hardly surprising to find out that student loan debt has increased over 63% in just ten years.

So what do you think the end result is if this trend continues? Either large segments of the population are going to have to give up on college or they're going to have to put themselves in a position where default is almost an inevitability. I guess that could actually have one positive effect. It could finally dispel the idea that everyone can or should go to college (or that a college degree should be considered a prerequisite for any white collar job).

And, BTW, you know who pays when someone defaults? The U.S. government foots the bill, since these loans are federally guaranteed. So Uncle Sam gets to fund the bailout on that one too, just like he did with the banks and domestic car industry.

[mavs>spurs]

if that happens then the whole damn world will fall into chaos and those who can will revert back to an agrarian economy imho. i'll be chillin out in the mountains somewhere hunting and fishing. good thing my grandpa has a ranch with cattle and stuff like that just in case.

[vy65]

Default would no doubt be painful. But limiting the college-going crowd would be a good thing.

Dunno if that juice is worth the squeeze . . .

[MannyIsGod]

While limiting the college going crowd would be somewhat of a good thing, the fact is we live in world that requires more technical knowledge in almost any job. Its about time we picked up our education BEFORE college.

[ElNono]

Default would no doubt be painful. But limiting the college-going crowd would be a good thing.

Dunno if that juice is worth the squeeze . . .

In which way? Almost 60% of white collar jobs in today's economy require a college degree.

[ElNono]

The "A Dose of Financial Reality" article above I think makes a great point of why older generations don't understand what's the difference between them and this generation.

[101A]

in' Quitter.

DR is many things.

"Quitter" is not one of them.

[CosmicCowboy]

While limiting the college going crowd would be somewhat of a good thing, the fact is we live in world that requires more technical knowledge in almost any job. Its about time we picked up our education BEFORE college.

No kidding. For those that aren't college bound the vocational training is a joke.

Oh, they probably have some decent health care schools now but training for real world jobs like mechanic, plumber, electrician, a/c repair, etc. is a joke. ing shop/ag classes turn out a million "welders" when there are simply no jobs for them.